Federalism = Tribalism

[DR OSMAN]

Reason #235 for why we should abandon qabilism.

How perverse does a system have to be, for you to feel personal enmity against your people, from another city, because they achieved some meagre development that would better their lives? We are talking about some of the poorest people in the world by the way.

If there was ever a comment that perfectly distils all that is wrong with qabilism, this would be it. How can you manage and develop a country with people who this like this? Talk about a fifth column.

Maybe study something around social reconciliation rather then the short term strategy of my enemy is your enemy lets unite cause of shisheeye nonsense, that's a marriage of convenience, it's never been seen to work for long-term anywhere as they end up turning on each other after the enemy is gone or the enemy wins. Somalia did it with colonials and then ethiopia and we saw wat happened, South sudan did it with north sudan and u saw wat happened there, eritrea n tplf did it in ethiopia and u saw wat happened, SL n Isaaq did it with somalia and where u think their heading? there isn't a single nation that was built to last on unity on enemy strategy.

I hope u don't promote that unstable strategy for somalia as we know where it will end if u do, as I doubt it will buck the worldwide trend of it. But study social reconciliation world wide will u and countries who did it successful and learn from how they got their society working together and not against each other, rather then sit there with 'qabiil is bad' kkkkkk cuz u will be sitting there a long time

 

[DR OSMAN]

Watch this @hawa-ali rather then telling us your desires for Somalia thru your anti qabiil hate, show us what is there to replace qabiil with?


Study Somali Civil war and the different time periods pre modern state, nation state period, civilian govt n military, post civil war. Study the rural conflicts, urban conflicts, diaspora conflicts, find what is truly 'fuelling' qabiil, it's usually 'lack of trust' so then go find how can lack of trust be 'cured' and present a god damn contribution for once in your nation rather then sitting there on sideline mocking me for contributing. U sit there with lets get along and be happy ever after, your a fuckin dreamer and insulting ppl intelligence and asking them to forget 30 years of state collapse, why don't u go damn live in Somalia for 30 years in state collapse and u tell me how quick u can get over it

 

[Diaspora ambassador]

@DR OSMAN

We need to go back to the era in which out only competition was economical.

We can achieve this in this era aswell.

Federalism allows for everyone to do this the problem is we keep our borders open for them. Let them settle in idp camps. This tells them that pl is always welcoming to idps and they will forget about their region and mass migrate to ours and othet idp camps.

If they had no where else to go they would have no other choice than to fix up their regions.


We have a hand in this shit. We allow it to happen. Let's become like sl and focus solely on ourselves.

You will see drastic change all over the nation a year after this is implemented.

 

[MT Foxtrot]

Maybe study something around social reconciliation rather then the short term strategy of my enemy is your enemy lets unite cause of shisheeye nonsense, that's a marriage of convenience, it's never been seen to work for long-term anywhere as they end up turning on each other after the enemy is gone or the enemy wins. Somalia did it with colonials and then ethiopia and we saw wat happened, South sudan did it with north sudan and u saw wat happened there, eritrea n tplf did it in ethiopia and u saw wat happened, SL n Isaaq did it with somalia and where u think their heading? there isn't a single nation that was built to last on unity on enemy strategy.

I hope u don't promote that unstable strategy for somalia as we know where it will end if u do, as I doubt it will buck the worldwide trend of it. But study social reconciliation world wide will u and countries who did it successful and learn from how they got their society working together and not against each other, rather then sit there with 'qabiil is bad' kkkkkk cuz u will be sitting there a long time

Please don't mischaracterise my views; especially when they easily accessible and therefore verifiable. Each time I've written about the perils of having a qabil-based society, I have articulated exactly what is wrong with such a system. If you are too lazy to comprehend what I write, why bother engaging at all?

" lets unite cause of shisheeye nonsense"
"unity on enemy strategy"
"Somalia did it with colonials"



What the f*ck are you talking about?

It is funny that as someone who makes frequent appeals to history, you conveniently omit that Somalia, as the unification of all Somali-speaking territories, was conceived of and supported by all Somalis. Any antagonism that resulted in the following decades was due to Barre's dictatorship (this is a simplification) and the state becoming a qabil-driven kakistocracy that no longer represented the people. The answer to this is not to develop your own kakistocracies but move past qabilism entirely.

On your point about social reconciliation, this will happen when we have an impersonal federal government capable of delivering justice. It almost certainly will not occur with qabil states who have demonstrated no appetite in doing so.

 

[Hassan Garguute Buldanana]

The federalism ship has sailed, we need to talk about confederation. Its the next step to dismantling the failed colonial project and end to our nightmare.

 

[DR OSMAN]

The federalism ship has sailed, we need to talk about confederation. Its the next step to dismantling the failed colonial project and end to our nightmare.

HSM started this idea of trying to interpret the federal constitution how he felt it should be interpreted in regards to federation, when it was made clear that PL is the model of federation and all state need to follow in it's example.

HSM comes along and puts to question 'I am not centralist' but I am not sure what type of federal we want and nonsense kkkkk, the man is clearly a spoiler. There is no appetite for your silly interpretation of a strong center n weak regions federalism, that's what he was trying to do by re-interpreting federalism and Farmajo has followed in his foot-step, thinking there is some damn interpretation issue when they were told to model the emerging regions on PL. Only JL is the only one who has taken to this, as the rest are merely following in HSM legacy and the wrong side of history again.

If federalism is going to be discussed it's baseline is PL model, this is the bare minimum federalism, how-ever now it's seems there is an appetite to loosen it even further so we may enter into a discussion of how loose federalism is, but no-one is discussing a centralized federalism, we reject power concentrated but totally devolved and separated at all times and the more loose they are the better. The only thing we will discuss is how the federal govt can be govt yet ceremonial in spirit with strong periphery and weak center, the question we want answered only is how weak can we take it while ensuring it's still the federal govt, that is all that is being discussed, any discussions outside that mandate is going to lead PL to leave the table.

My motto is federal govt in spirit, regional govts in power. The regions are not concentrated so it's separated regional powers, while we have a federal govt in 'spirit' and not power. So I see Somalia federal structure in that sense a Mogadishu with ceremonial and spiritual power and regional govt with authority power. I am also willingly to discuss how to end the republic which unsuitable to our society and begin monarchy discussion and I want a fat ass royal chamber and palace for King burhan in Mogadishu so our descendants can say finally he has been crowned the KING OF SOMALIA and his castle is in his Mogadishu and not Hobyo like his cousin

 

[Ferrari]

only laangaabs hate federalism. out of the closet mr gybsy.

 

[DR OSMAN]

only laangaabs hate federalism. out of the closet mr gybsy.

We are not re-doing a PL/JL model of federation standards, iyaga waqtiga iska qaadayso with their constant attacks on federation guidelines. Federalism is the law of the land, there is no other model allowed, concentrated power in an office in the villa over a nation or weak peripheries like 'banadir' govt oo loo magacabo, wax wadanka ay qadanayso ma jiro, since it's concentrated power and we discussing how to de-concentrate it. Regional govts are not 'concentrated' they are separate and equals, this provides a balance to their regional power but what balances out villa somalia 1 office with all the power?

Lets install monarchy with boqor burhan castle in Mogadishu and Official Darod kingdoms and his monarch elect chambers with 'Sayid' faras'. While we keep our shit to ourselves in our regions and we enjoy the spoils of war in hamar kkkkk

 

[Ferrari]

We are not re-doing a PL/JL model of federation standards, iyaga waqtiga iska qaadayso with their constant attacks on federation guidelines. Federalism is the law of the land, there is no other model allowed, concentrated power in an office in the villa over a nation or weak peripheries like 'banadir' govt oo loo magacabo, wax wadanka ay qadanayso ma jiro, since it's concentrated power and we discussing how to de-concentrate it. Regional govts are not 'concentrated' they are separate and equals, this provides a balance to their regional power but what balances out villa somalia 1 office with all the power?

Lets install monarchy with boqor burhan castle in Mogadishu and Official Darod kingdoms and his monarch elect chambers with 'Sayid' faras'. While we keep our shit to ourselves in our regions and we enjoy the spoils of war in hamar kkkkk

like @Apophis said, from here, confederation is the only option.
we ain't going back to the days one asshole mf ruled the entire country. laangaabs can blame themselves. this would be like the no child left behind program by president Bush where the dumb ass kids dragged the whole class down because the teachers were told to teach at a slow pace.

 

[FBIsomalia]

Europe sharing a house !!!. Federal that what let many Somalis goes back home to visit their families and there is no more Civil war. Centralism Show us Three coup d'état, Two fail and one success.

Now, do you have better option?

 

[Anubis]

@codewebsduh there is no appetite for your nationalist garbage after the civil war, your holding onto world war 2 idealogy, for god sakes grow up n evolve and there is no way after civil war that nationalist crap is workable, only federalism is and tribal one since the civil war itself was tribal and still is no matter what 'flavors' of politics they use, it's grounded in 'tribe' at all time. Hence the solution is TRIBAL FEDERALISM.

Once social reconciliation is done it may get less tribal but the federalism isn't going anywhere, it's insurance for all and devolving of power so it's not concentrated again which is the recipe for tyranny. Infact we should also install monarchies as an extra layer of check and re-do republic which it's clearly not a republic beyond paper, the nation is social groups not republicans, hence unsuitable itself

i agree with you about federalism and monarchism. But the current model of federalism only instigates more hatred and conflict between different member states as evident by the frequent clashes between different forces like the PL & SL forces

 

[codewebsduh]

The brain dead replies reaffirms my belief that Somalia shouldn't be a democracy , tribally representative or otherwise. When you have literal retarded takes like "Langaabs hate federalism" i understand our only real path to success is a Chinese style government.

I mean jesus christ imagine bragging about shanty shithole towns made by your minuscule tribe in the literal 21st century whilst your fellow humans are building aircraft carriers, nuclear reactors and landing on mars.

Democracy simply grants countries the leader they want and we know somalis want retarded qabilists.

 

[codewebsduh]

@DR OSMAN

We need to go back to the era in which out only competition was economical.

We can achieve this in this era aswell.

Federalism allows for everyone to do this the problem is we keep our borders open for them. Let them settle in idp camps. This tells them that pl is always welcoming to idps and they will forget about their region and mass migrate to ours and othet idp camps.

If they had no where else to go they would have no other choice than to fix up their regions.


We have a hand in this shit. We allow it to happen. Let's become like sl and focus solely on ourselves.

You will see drastic change all over the nation a year after this is implemented.

How in the f*ck can you develop any long term economic plans in lawless ministates, are you literally this brain dead?

 

[codewebsduh]

Europe sharing a house !!!. Federal that what let many Somalis goes back home to visit their families and there is no more Civil war. Centralism Show us Three coup d'état, Two fail and one success.

Now, do you have better option?

Belgium and Netherlands are first world democracies with strong institutions. We are talking about the country which is last in every single possible sector, a country where grown men brag about shacks.

 

[Revolutionary]

Reason #235 for why we should abandon qabilism.

How perverse does a system have to be, for you to feel personal enmity against your people, from another city, because they achieved some meagre development that would better their lives? We are talking about some of the poorest people in the world by the way.

If there was ever a comment that perfectly distils all that is wrong with qabilism, this would be it. How can you manage and develop a country with people who think like this? Talk about a fifth column.

You hit the nail in the coffin

 

[Diaspora ambassador]

How in the f*ck can you develop any long term economic plans in lawless ministates, are you literally this brain dead?

who said anything about lawlessness?

if you know anything about somalis is that they are very resilient.
Ofcourse they get the support when they actually want to improve their situation in their regions.

by taking everyone in we are all implicit to working against nationhood.

i’m looking at the bigger picture, let the population turn against their corrupt leaders.

breake the status quo and from the ashes the republic will be reborn.

 

[Diaspora ambassador]

Europe sharing a house !!!. Federal that what let many Somalis goes back home to visit their families and there is no more Civil war. Centralism Show us Three coup d'état, Two fail and one success.

Now, do you have better option?

België as it is called by the natives was part of the netherlands. The senate is what is left over from the union.
The two countries also belong to the benelux (belgium,netherlands and luxemburg).

no shit the borders are non existent.

ps during covid belgium has placed objects on all roads to the netherlands blocking the border so yeah.

 

[Removed]

How in the f*ck can you develop any long term economic plans in lawless ministates, are you literally this brain dead?

these are not ministates many of these states are the size of European countries.

I would also like to add centralism has been tried what do you think you could possibly do different? Hirshabelle, KG, and GM all to an extent are ruled centrally from Xamar.

How has that faired them in comparison to even less resource rich regions such as Somaliland and Puntland (which was the poorest region in the past).

Reforming federalism is the obvious solution but some man just get frustrated with their weakness and think they can just flip the board over and restart with the Kacaan.

 

[DR OSMAN]

these are not ministates many of these states are the size of European countries.

I would also like to add centralism has been tried what do you think you could possibly do different? Hirshabelle, KG, and GM all to an extent are ruled centrally from Xamar.

How has that faired them in comparison to even less resource rich regions such as Somaliland and Puntland (which was the poorest region in the past).

Reforming federalism is the obvious solution but some man just get frustrated with their weakness and think they can just flip the board over and restart with the Kacaan.

The idea that federalism will be re-interpreted to suit 'langaabs' so they can walk away with power concentrated to the center in Mogadishu and create regional govts in the spirit of 'banadir' and have banadir replicated across the country and argue this this is 'federalism' is really just 'unitarian and central' nonsense where there trying to re-define federalism and swing power the to center and keep the regions weak and subordinate. There is no appetite for this nationally nor internationally as the world has made it clear to Somalis on a number of occasion that PL is the model of federation that we demand to see in all emerging regions. Infact this assault on federation guidelines following the PL model is now leading to an appetite of 'loosening' federation guidelines itself.

PL model of federation ensures there isn't a concentrated power in even the regions since their separated and equal, plus we call for devolved powers within regional govts so it doesn't itself become to concentrated. The issue is concentration of power/revenues with an office under a republican 'statehood' where govt power is unchecked is also in my opinion a lack of appetite for but hasn't been really discussed and is serious elephant in the room that needs to be discussed.

 

[SomaliMVP]

Europe sharing a house !!!. Federal that what let many Somalis goes back home to visit their families and there is no more Civil war. Centralism Show us Three coup d'état, Two fail and one success.

Now, do you have better option?

Belgium and The Netherlands are developed nations that share a border. How could you use it as an example to justify federalism in Somalia?

In Somalia federalism was created by foreign powers who wanted to divide our nation. We have wars between federal member states and no real development. If federalism is a succes in Somalia, then why are you still living in the west?