Flood Of Nuh pbuh- Global or Regional?

[Samaalic Era]

all humans lived in that region, no one really know, Allah does tell us the mountain the ship landed on is called judy -juuudiii, maybe it was iraq, who knows only God, but we know of all humans only 70-80 or so believed and survived

and only allah knows, dont concern yourself with this or that, just focus on salat and the fard actions required,

You are right sxb. This is just trying to piece together history of mankind and lineages which is a worldly knowledge although it is useless in the hereafter. Knowledge of Lineages and tracing iconic events from the Qur'an is something i find fascinating

 

[Samaalic Era]

all humans lived in that region, no one really know, Allah does tell us the mountain the ship landed on is called judy -juuudiii, maybe it was iraq, who knows only God, but we know of all humans only 70-80 or so believed and survived

and only allah knows, dont concern yourself with this or that, just focus on salat and the fard actions required,

In the Qur'an, Allah swt says he sent Nuh to his people, implying there were other humans.

We sent Noah to his People (with the Command): "Do thou warn thy People before there comes to them a grievous Penalty."

 

[CaliTedesse]

how do you know this?

 

[James Dahl]

allegorical

 

[Samaalic Era]

allegorical

What do you mean?

 

[James Dahl]

What do you mean?

The whole book of Genesis is not exactly a book but a collection of legendary tales about the origins of the earth and the tribes and nations of the world. An unnamed scribe collected these tales together and created a single narrative story which is what the Book of Genesis is.

Each chapter in Genesis is actually a stand alone story and contradict each other. For instance chapters 1 and 2 are two different and contradictory stories about the creation of human beings. In Genesis 1, men and women are created at the same time, after animals are created. In Genesis 2 man is created first, then all the animals, then women.

In Genesis 4, Cain is the father of Enoch and Methusael is the father of Lamech. In Genesis 5, Jared is the father of Enoch and Methuselah is the father of Lamech.

The flood story is an allegorical story with many influences and other similar stories, it is original a Sumerian story with a very different cast of characters.

 

[Samaalic Era]

The whole book of Genesis is not exactly a book but a collection of legendary tales about the origins of the earth and the tribes and nations of the world. An unnamed scribe collected these tales together and created a single narrative story which is what the Book of Genesis is.

Each chapter in Genesis is actually a stand alone story and contradict each other. For instance chapters 1 and 2 are two different and contradictory stories about the creation of human beings. In Genesis 1, men and women are created at the same time, after animals are created. In Genesis 2 man is created first, then all the animals, then women.

In Genesis 4, Cain is the father of Enoch and Methusael is the father of Lamech. In Genesis 5, Jared is the father of Enoch and Methuselah is the father of Lamech.

The flood story is an allegorical story with many influences and other similar stories, it is original a Sumerian story with a very different cast of characters.

I heard many of the books of the bible were written by scribes in Babylon after the destruction of the First Temple in 587 BC. Is this true?

 

[James Dahl]

I heard many of the books of the bible were written by scribes in Babylon after the destruction of the First Temple in 587 BC. Is this true?

Not written, the old Jewish religion was a mystery religion, it was transmitted orally among the priesthood, the Kohanim. The Torah was not written down until Moses ben Maimon established the Mishneh Torah in around 1180 CE while he was living in Egypt.

The story of Genesis was compiled by the Christian scribes who compiled the written Bible for emperor Constantine on his orders in 331. Prior to 331 there was no one Bible, just a bunch of different scrolls with many different versions. The Torah's version of Genesis is the same as the one Constantine complied, just translated into Hebrew.

 

[James Dahl]

The reason why the Torah was written down was because due to centuries of persecution and exile in many different countries, much knowledge was lost. Moses ben Maimon's decision to codify the Mishneh Torah was quite controversial in his day. He is really the father of modern Judaism as a religion that was not centered on the Temple and maintained by the priesthood.

The old religion of Israel is mostly lost, only the high priests knew all aspects of the religion and most of them were killed or died without passing on their knowledge.

 

[Samaalic Era]

The reason why the Torah was written down was because due to centuries of persecution and exile in many different countries, much knowledge was lost. Moses ben Maimon's decision to codify the Mishneh Torah was quite controversial in his day. He is really the father of modern Judaism as a religion that was not centered on the Temple and maintained by the priesthood.

The old religion of Israel is mostly lost, only the high priests knew all aspects of the religion and most of them were killed or died without passing on their knowledge.

I never knew the Torah was not written down so late but passed Orally despite their being a writing script for Hebrew. The jews of Arabia in the time of the Prophet pbuh had some written form for their texts in 600s. Did the jews have seperate factions in which some wrote the Law and others being traditionalists?

 

[James Dahl]

Moses ben Maimon's actions were to save a dying religion, and all current Jewish people follow his rabbinical principles the "13 articles of faith". Those who did not those segments of Judaism no longer exist.

It's not that they couldn't write down a Torah, but Judaism was a mystery religion it could not be written down, it was sacred.

 

[Libaaxseendheer]

It was definitely a local occurence of the levant and arabia or atleast some classical scholars believed that. Tabari in tarikh al rusul wa al muluk records
the following tradition:
The Children of Sam (Shem) settled al-Majdal, the center of the Earth, which is between Satidim and the sea and between Yemen and Syria.(central arabia) Allah made the prophets from them,revealed the Books to them, made them beautiful, gave them a dark complexion, luminous and free of blemish (
al-udma wa l-bayad). The children of Ham settled in the south, along the course of the south and west wind-this region is called al-Darum
. Allah gave them a
dark complexion, a few of whom were also luminous and free of blemish…The children of
Japheth settled in al-
‘afå
n, along the course of the north and east wind. They are ruddy-complexioned and very fair-skinned (
al-
È
umra wa l-shaqra
).
19

An 8th century rabbi confirms this believe aswell

Pirke de rabbi eliezer-

"Noah brought his sonsand his grandsons, and he blessed them with their (several) settlements, and he gave them as an inheritance all the earth. He especially blessed Shem and his sons, black but comely, and he gave them the inhabitable earth. He blessed Ham and his sons, black like a raven, and he gave them as an inheritance the coast of the sea. He blessed Japheth and his sons, they entirely white, and he gave them for an inheritance the desert and its fields; these (are theinheritances with) which he endow
ed them."

 

[Samaalic Era]

It was definitely a local occurence of the levant and arabia or atleast some classical scholars believed that. Tabari in tarikh al rusul wa al muluk records
the following tradition:
The Children of Sam (Shem) settled al-Majdal, the center of the Earth, which is between Satidim and the sea and between Yemen and Syria.(central arabia) Allah made the prophets from them,revealed the Books to them, made them beautiful, gave them a dark complexion, luminous and free of blemish (
al-udma wa l-bayad). The children of Ham settled in the south, along the course of the south and west wind-this region is called al-Darum
. Allah gave them a
dark complexion, a few of whom were also luminous and free of blemish…The children of
Japheth settled in al-
‘afå
n, along the course of the north and east wind. They are ruddy-complexioned and very fair-skinned (
al-
È
umra wa l-shaqra
).
19

An 8th century rabbi confirms this believe aswell

Pirke de rabbi eliezer-

"Noah brought his sonsand his grandsons, and he blessed them with their (several) settlements, and he gave them as an inheritance all the earth. He especially blessed Shem and his sons, black but comely, and he gave them the inhabitable earth. He blessed Ham and his sons, black like a raven, and he gave them as an inheritance the coast of the sea. He blessed Japheth and his sons, they entirely white, and he gave them for an inheritance the desert and its fields; these (are theinheritances with) which he endow
ed them."

I agree except about the complexion which is subjective. If you take lets say a Somali into Siberia and they only have children with Somalis in Siberia, over a period of time, their complexion will become lighter until they are eventually white. Same thing with a Nordic family moved into Somalia. They would become Dark skinned over many generations.

 

[Apollo]

The common understanding of most scholars today is the Flood is a Global event which is derived from the bible. Also groups such as the Bantu, Native Americans, Australoid and Mongoloids are not descendants of Nuh pbuh and scattered the earth shortly after the death of Adam pbuh which discredits the Global flood belief and that all humans are descended from Nuh pbuh. From my understanding of the story in the Qur'an is that Allah swt destroyed the people of Nuh pbuh and not mankind, who probably lived in the Levant.

And Allah swt knows best

It was certainly local.

You are letting religion cloud your judgement. There is no genetic evidence for a strong GLOBAL bottleneck in the past 5,000 years (when the old testament events occurred).

What this term ''genetic bottleneck'' means:

The only evidence for a big global bottleneck was around 75,000 years ago, and even then it mostly affected proto-Eurasians who just left Africa and not affecting those who remained behind in Africa.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recent_African_origin_of_modern_humans

 

[Samaalic Era]

It was certainly local.

You are letting religion cloud your judgement. There is no genetic evidence for a strong GLOBAL bottleneck in the past 5,000 years (when the old testament events occurred).

What this term ''genetic bottleneck'' means:

The only evidence for a big global bottleneck was around 75,000 years ago, and even then it mostly affected proto-Eurasians who just left Africa and not affecting those who remained behind in Africa.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recent_African_origin_of_modern_humans

I believe the Flood of Nuh was a local flood which probably effected the Levant and the surrounding areas.

The Global flood and the belief of all humans coming the Nuh pbuh is a biblical myth which many scholars tell people today which is wrong. Biblical myths such Israeliiyaat are used by some scholars and have no basis in Qur'anic tradition

 

[Ferrari]

Global most likely, as many people from all over the world talk about a massive flood.


Maybe not consuming everyone, but rather all over the world.

 

[Samaalic Era]

Global most likely, as many people from all over the world talk about a massive flood.


Maybe not consuming everyone, but rather all over the world.

In story in the Qur'an, it mentions that only the people of Nuh were destroyed.

In a hadith, the Prophet pbuh said there 10 generations between Adam and Nuh pbuh. A generation then would have been alot longer then due them having a longer lifespan

It was the Middle east,large parts of Africa and maybe Southern Europe

 

[Ferrari]

In story in the Qur'an, it mentions that only the people of Nuh were destroyed.

In a hadith, the Prophet pbuh said there 10 generations between Adam and Nuh pbuh. A generation then would have been alot longer then due them having a longer lifespan

yeah nuh was preaching for 950 years himself, so he was probably a 1000+ years old himself.

many pagans like the native Americans and the Aztecs talk about a massive flood that swallowed everything.

The mythical city of atlantis is said to have been buried in water overnight.

interesting stuff.

 

[Samaalic Era]

yeah nuh was preaching for 950 years himself, so he was probably a 1000+ years old himself.

many pagans like the native Americans and the Aztecs talk about a massive flood that swallowed everything.

The mythical city of atlantis is said to have been buried in water overnight.

interesting stuff.

I had no idea that the aztec had a similiar story. I need to look into