French President Macron: Africa's problem is NOT colonization but women having 7 or 8 babies

[SuldaanGuled]

Well in an ideal world there would be no capitalism but there is, and if you want to ensure your kids the best chance of success you need to provide for your kids. If you have too many you're spreading yourself too thin. That's just the way it is. My parents had a lot of kids and have good incomes but there's no way I'd want more than 2 kids because mentally it's also a drain.

I'll be content with whatever Allah blesses me with , be it 1 or 10 ciyaal kuligood waa mashallah. Success isn't limited to attaining a better worldly life if anything it's about worshipping and pleasing Allah according to your ability from that which Allah blessed you with in every circumstance. For some being wealthy and attaining worldly success is the best means of gaining nearness to Allah for others being poor and attaining less in terms of worldly gains is the best means of gaining nearness to Allah. It might be that we don't perceive someone as being successful but in reality it might turn out to be different.

We might strive for something that might not be of benefit to us in the end so it's best to keep our intentions pure.

 

[Foreman]

Your basically uttered a statement of kufr and knowing were you are from this doesn't surprise me the least bit.

Islam is resilient according the circumstances. Allahu yurid bekomo al yosra wa la yorid bikm al cosr (Allah wants you to fulfill your obligations with ease not with hardship)

During the reign of Omar RAA a time drought came were there was a dire shortage of food. Soon thievery spread as people turned to steal in to survive. In that year Omar RAA suspended the law of which thieve hands must be cut off.

Today we live in a different world. In order to survive and thrive one needs to have his degree or start a business to live comfortably. Both route hindered with having kids early on in life. From there on its more likely to have more kids, continue the cycle of poverty and stuck in low income brackets

 

[Inquisitive_]

Was your grandfather a big shot in the government, did he had farm lands and enough livestock to start such a large family? I bet he did. Its easy for you to say so because you live in the west and from what you post I conclude that you got your degree, over 30, don't have kids and heavily invested in stock markets.

What stops you from starting a big family than?

I usually agree with your insight on social trends/values and global geo-politics but this time you went over the top with having kids without family planning.

My grandfather became richer as he had more kids but before it he was a very poor man, we know from the sunnah that these are means of someone's riziq being increased when they are a believer, the more kids he had, the wealthier he became. I have seen similar stories like these a thousand of times.

You see in matters such as these you really have two choices, you either follow the religious edict and have iman or you go with your own whims and desires (in this case not even your own but those from others you have been indoctrinated with)

I choose to go with the deen and this has served me very well, I had long periods of dreadful poverty and illnesses most on here never went through but looking back at that right now it's the greatest thing that happened to me so your argument of privilege holds no sway here.

Family planning as the term is used today is satanic in it's origin, it's the doctrine of planned parenthood whom specifically set up shop in black/immigrant neighbourhoods exclusively to push these ideas, it's a Malthusian concept that believes the world problems come from overpopulation, a doctrine exclusively pushed by white fascists ideologues because their own fertility rates were dropping, they are all part of masonic lodges and secret societies hence (satanic origin)

I plan to have as many kids as I possibly can not fearing poverty one bit and I am not 30 as you thought, there is no need to fear this because it's not in my control anyway, I could be a millionaire today have 10 kids then loose all that money in a single afternoon, it's part of having a lack of imaan to even think like this and even worse arrogantly believing that it's you that controls your own destiny, it's an utter lack of humility.

I could bring my children up in the most religious setting/environment and be the perfect example but the outcomes ultimately and solely belongs to Allah only whom has the ability to look at things in so many different perspectives that I can't in his ultimate wisdom, I will only be asked about the 'efforts' that I put in and will not be asked about the outcomes because it's not in my control.

The proof is in the pudding, virtually all of our great grand fathers had many children and if any of them took these satanic advice's of yours (oh we are poor thus can't afford children) you wouldn't be here today neither would we as a nation, you are essentially arguing for your own extermination ironically.

I know colleagues I work with especially bosses that are earning more then double worry day and night about their finances, suffering from high blood pressure and early onset of grey-hairs etc. our grandfathers didn't even have a fraction of their wealth but raised 100's of children, it's no surprises that people whom think like this are often punished with spinisterhood, infertility, desolateness, barrenness, depression and other mental/physical health issues. etc.

 

[SuldaanGuled]

Islam is resilient according the circumstances. Allahu yurid bekomo al yosra wa la yorid bikm al cosr (Allah wants you to fulfill your obligations with ease not with hardship)

During the reign of Omar RAA a time drought came were there was a dire shortage of food. Soon thievery spread as people turned to steal in to survive. In that year Omar RAA suspended the law of which thieve hands must be cut off.

Today we live in a different world. In order to survive and thrive one needs to have his degree or start a business to live comfortably. Both route hindered with having kids early on in life. From there on its more likely to have more kids, continue the cycle of poverty and stuck in low income brackets

I fail to understand how the story you mentioned relates to what is being discussed ? Allah also mentions that with hardship comes ease as well.

This dunya is an ongoing test , some will be tested with wealth and others with poverty this is a fact of life. No one is saying or arguing that you don't take measures to ensure a good future for your children but rather don't conflate your own individual circumstance to others who don't have similar opportunities as you do and then go on ahead to blame them for their life choices and problems which aren't of their own doing. Before we criticize we need to walk a mile in their shoes to gain an insight into their life choices .

Having a good life doesn't mean we need to be materialistic, since many people achieve that with the most meagre basic necessities of life. That degree might not get you a job and similarly that business might go under what then ? They're just a means to an end and most certainly not the only way to achieve that end goal.

 

[Foreman]

My grandfather became richer as he had more kids but before it he was a very poor man, we know from the sunnah that these are means of someone's riziq being increased when they are a believer, the more kids he had, the wealthier he became. I have seen similar stories like these a thousand of times.

You see in matters such as these you really have two choices, you either follow the religious edict and have iman or you go with your own whims and desires (in this case not even your own but those from others you have been indoctrinated with)

I choose to go with the deen and this has served me very well, I had long periods of dreadful poverty and illnesses most on here never went through but looking back at that right now it's the greatest thing that happened to me so your argument of privilege holds no sway here.

Family planning as the term is used today is satanic in it's origin, it's the doctrine of planned parenthood whom specifically set up shop in black/immigrant neighbourhoods exclusively to push these ideas, it's a Malthusian concept that believes the world problems come from overpopulation, a doctrine exclusively pushed by white fascists ideologues because their own fertility rates were dropping, they are all part of masonic lodges and secret societies hence (satanic origin)

I plan to have as many kids as I possibly can not fearing poverty one bit and I am not 30 as you thought, there is no need to fear this because it's not in my control anyway, I could be a millionaire today have 10 kids then loose all that money in a single afternoon, it's part of having a lack of imaan to even think like this and even worse arrogantly believing that it's you that controls your own destiny, it's an utter lack of humility.

I could bring my children up in the most religious setting/environment and be the perfect example but the outcomes ultimately and solely belongs to Allah only whom has the ability to look at things in so many different perspectives that I can't in his ultimate wisdom, I will only be asked about the 'efforts' that I put in and will not be asked about the outcomes because it's not in my control.

The proof is in the pudding, virtually all of our great grand fathers had many children and if any of them took these satanic advice's of yours (oh we are poor thus can't afford children) you wouldn't be here today neither would we as a nation, you are essentially arguing for your own extermination ironically.

I know colleagues I work with especially bosses that are earning more then double worry day and night about their finances, suffering from high blood pressure and early onset of grey-hairs etc. our grandfathers didn't even have a fraction of their wealth but raised 100's of children, it's no surprises that people whom think like this are often punished with spinisterhood, infertility, desolateness, barrenness, depression and other mental/physical health issues. etc.

Intresting read and I totally agree with desity and fate decided by Allah but

Taqwaa and believing in one's fate as written by Allah upon birth is one thing. Breeding and starting families from scratch in the hope prosperity and to sustain itself is a whole another thing. What I see among Muslims today educated and non educated alike is that they leave everything to Allah and don't work to peruse to secure their interest, welfare and well being. Faith in Allah has been abused by culama, shiekh's and common Muslims into statues quo of marrying without means a receipt for perpetual poverty. It's like Somali bakhti who started a go fund me page to fund his weeding having no plan and foresight for tomorrow.

“Anas Ibn Malik said: “A man came to the Prophet and asked: “O messenger of Allah, should I tie (my camel) and trust (in Allah) or shall I leave her (untied) and trust(in Allah)?” He said: “Tie (your camel) then put your trust (in Allah)”

In other words اعقلها وتوكل I interpret as preserving and investing in you assets, wealth, and trust in Allah. Us Muslims ( men in particular) marrying without a sufficient income and wasting our youth and little wealth we have on becoming a head of household. It all comes down to how you manage your education, career and finances.

In the example you presented of a colleague in executive position, if you give the choice, I rather to be loaded, single with BP and grey hair than a father in debt father in late 30's scrapping what he can to get his oldest son/daughter into college. It all comes down to preserving and enriching your wealth early in life. You want to go the route of early marriage, than its written for you by Allah, if you want to be an entrepreneur its already written in your book. That's what faith in your destiny is good or evil. TBF if you are single with PB or a father of 5 kids you will always have something to worry about.


Good for your grandfather on taking himself out of poverty but we live in another era now. Our forefather and grandmothers were content with a roof on the top of their head, a flock of goats/camels and a water source in proximity. We will not get extinct if we limit the number of children we decide to raise. That's nonsense Somali race will not vanish we are spanning into 5 countries with strong base of diaspora all over the world.


The root cause to why Africans are lacking behind today in large have to do with imperial and regional powers meddling in their affairs and bid one against another. But above all is the corruption of the political class of African leader and their lack of nationalism. Libya had a nationalist leader and citizens enjoying one of the highest levels of standards of living in Africa, today its a sad excuse of US Bullshit, that country should have never collapsed.

Giving birth in itself does not cause poverty it compounds the already existing poverty. A man and a woman marrying in late teen early 20s and giving birth to children will be burden to provide for them and will not take risk in business ventures or going back to school denying a positive effect on their income, education and experience in failed venture . A traditionally adhered too poverty trap.

 

[Foreman]

I fail to understand how the story you mentioned relates to what is being discussed ? Allah also mentions that with hardship comes ease as well.

This dunya is an ongoing test , some will be tested with wealth and others with poverty this is a fact of life. No one is saying or arguing that you don't take measures to ensure a good future for your children but rather don't conflate your own individual circumstance to others who don't have similar opportunities as you do and then go on ahead to blame them for their life choices and problems which aren't of their own doing. Before we criticize we need to walk a mile in their shoes to gain an insight into their life choices .

Having a good life doesn't mean we need to be materialistic, since many people achieve that with the most meagre basic necessities of life. That degree might not get you a job and similarly that business might go under what then ? They're just a means to an end and most certainly not the only way to achieve that end goal.

Re-read my post. Takfiring someone is a great sin.

 

[Foreman]

I fail to understand how the story you mentioned relates to what is being discussed ? Allah also mentions that with hardship comes ease as well.

This dunya is an ongoing test , some will be tested with wealth and others with poverty this is a fact of life. No one is saying or arguing that you don't take measures to ensure a good future for your children but rather don't conflate your own individual circumstance to others who don't have similar opportunities as you do and then go on ahead to blame them for their life choices and problems which aren't of their own doing. Before we criticize we need to walk a mile in their shoes to gain an insight into their life choices .

Having a good life doesn't mean we need to be materialistic, since many people achieve that with the most meagre basic necessities of life. That degree might not get you a job and similarly that business might go under what then ? They're just a means to an end and most certainly not the only way to achieve that end goal.

When did I say that?

Marrying someone and having kids with early in live is a choice! Its not something out of your will or forced on you (all written) I fail to see where are you coming from. What I said is simple. Get degree, proper job or start a business before settling down. If you mean people from Somalia than of course its even harder to get married and have kids. The only route they have is starting a business or marry young.

 

[SuldaanGuled]

Re-read my post. Takfiring someone is a great sin.

I've read it & what he accused her of doing is uttering a statement of kufr, there's a difference between saying that and calling a muslim a kafir. Takfir in islam is to consider a muslim to be no longer a muslim, i don't believe that this is what he was intending . I can see as to why he would say that given the sister's response but all in all the exchange between them isn't one that i would consider to be a beneficial one.

Emotions were running high and people tend to get carried away perhaps a better alternative would've been to ask the sister what she meant by that statement of hers, as it stands the impression one gets is that not only is she criticizing him but also his statement as well the fact that Allah provides. This is why i think he told her that she uttered a statement of kufr. Do i think that she doesn't believe that Allah provides ? no i don't believe that simply because the sister wasn't intending that rather what she didn't agree with was the manner in which that statement was being utilised

It's right that we as muslims should have complete tawakkul (reliance ) in Allah but there're levels to this. One of the levels is to believe that every matter has a means and we need to utilise these means to be able to accomplish our obligations i.e we need to strive to achieve them. Simply expecting that Allah will give us everything without us striving for it is a mistaken believe this is was the sister's point i believe. You can't say that Allah will provide for us while we ourselves do nothing.

As you see it could've been solved pretty easily walaal @Inquisitive_ iyo @Gambar madax qabow oo dagaan baa la rabaa. Ma ahaan in lagu deg dego arimahan caynkan oo kale ee waa laga fican yahay walaalayal

 

[Gambar]

I've read it & what he accused her of doing is uttering a statement of kufr, there's a difference between saying that and calling a muslim a kafir. Takfir in islam is to consider a muslim to be no longer a muslim, i don't believe that this is what he was intending . I can see as to why he would say that given the sister's response but all in all the exchange between them isn't one that i would consider to be a beneficial one.

Emotions were running high and people tend to get carried away perhaps a better alternative would've been to ask the sister what she meant by that statement of hers, as it stands the impression one gets is that not only is she criticizing him but also his statement as well the fact that Allah provides. This is why i think he told her that she uttered a statement of kufr. Do i think that she doesn't believe that Allah provides ? no i don't believe that simply because the sister wasn't intending that rather what she didn't agree with was the manner in which that statement was being utilised

It's right that we as muslims should have complete tawakkul (reliance ) in Allah but there're levels to this. One of the levels is to believe that every matter has a means and we need to utilise these means to be able to accomplish our obligations i.e we need to strive to achieve them. Simply expecting that Allah will give us everything without us striving for it is a mistaken believe this is was the sister's point i believe. You can't say that Allah will provide for us while we ourselves do nothing.

As you see it could've been solved pretty easily walaal @Inquisitive_ iyo @Gambar madax qabow oo dagaan baa la rabaa. Ma ahaan in lagu deg dego arimahan caynkan oo kale ee waa laga fican yahay walaalayal

Please stop excusing his behavior. You guys are ridiculous. This idea that you should have as many kids as possible because it's in Allahs hands is nothing short of irresponsible.

 

[SuldaanGuled]

When did I say that?

Marrying someone and having kids with early in live is a choice! Its not something out of your will or forced on you (all written) I fail to see where are you coming from. What I said is simple. Get degree, proper job or start a business before settling down. If you mean people from Somalia than of course its even harder to get married and have kids. The only route they have is starting a business or marry young.

It was a general statement i was making nothing that was related to you in particular. Sax it's a choice but look at the way you made that comparison and how it's a "hinderance" to achieving success in life. That's nothing more than a bias on your part walaal , people do have kids while pursuing a degree and also start & run businesses

Having kids early on and living a good life aren't mutually exclusive walaal

 

[SuldaanGuled]

Please stop excusing his behavior. You guys are ridiculous. This idea that you should have as many kids as possible because it's in Allahs hands is nothing short of irresponsible.

That was your discussion with him not me as i clearly said that i'll be content with whatever Allah blesses me with. There's no action which takes place on earth without the Qadr of Allah having said that this doesn't absolve us from our own responsibilities. There are responsibilities that come with having kids and one will be questioned about them during the day of judgement.

What is it that makes it irresponsible ? the fact that they want to have as many kids as possible or them not wanting to do anything ie lift a finger to be responsible and cater for the kids ?

Whatever riziq you've gained and worked for only came as a result of Allah giving you the ability to achieve them in the first so everything goes back to Allah. Don't assume that anything that you've ever accomplished in your life was the result of your hard work alone. Allah provided a means for us to be able to worship Him and also sustain ourselves as long as we live in this dunya.

 

[Abdalla]

I hate the French. Mudane hitler should've finished the job instead of touring around the Eiffel Tower

 

[Noir]

Africa is a joke! And we Somali's will always remain the posterboy for that joke! Because not only are we African,but we are also eternal slaves of Islam and the Arabs.No wonder our men are skinny and feminine...that is what years of providing sexual services to Arab warlords will do to you genetically.

 

[DR OSMAN]

Somalia woes are definitly colonial but also a lack of visionary leaders. These clowns think building an economy is just sending people to school, you are oversaturating a sector when you keep investing into a sector and producing way more supply then warrants the demand. A smart economist will see the untapped potential in so many somali economic sectors, when I say untapped, it's not like europe which is developed because once something is developed it can only grow at a far smaller rate 'limited' before the bubble bursts. That's why the west survival relies on creating new market-places for it's companies, so these countries who say the west wants to keep africa down are not entirely honest because it keeps their companies down if they are not sourcing new market places(consumers). Having wars and destroying countries takes away potential customers who can buy your goods. It's a global economic environment today like a big rope tying nations together, you take out one nation it's after effect will be felt by the people that country traded with. The west can only survive if it either goes down the innovation route or creates a new market place for it's companies, the current status quo is just maintaining their economy not growing it which is quite suicidal.

Somalia needs an economic plan on what to do with any investment they receive. I am not saying education isn't important(literacy, numeracy up too 15 years age) but not higher education like universities( not now anyways) since there are so many other 'easy' sectors to exploit and gain capital from. Health is also quite important because no-one intends to hire someone who is sick or possibly going to die early due to lack of medical availability. They should be investing in a bigger amount into technical institutes to train our people to know how to do hands on work such as agriculture, electrician, plumbing, construction. Pay depends on supply/demand and since they lack supplies in those sectors, they can charge through the roof and make a killing. Where-as that boy graduating from universities is going to make far less because the supply of skilled workers are far too high then the work available exists.

Somalia really needs modern day approach to economics, it's not a hard thing to grasp

 

[Prince Abubu]

Large families is a consequence of poverty, not the other way around. You'd have thought somebody who worked as a banker for the Rothschild's and managed to get elected as the President of France would have better critical thinking skills.

 

[gurey]

He might wanna stop chargin them colonial tax. What a truly devilish person he is.

 

[Garaad Darawiish]

Macron is an ardent believer in the religion of neo liberalism. In fact his election was manufactured by the ruling elite using the ultra right wing as a scare tactic. His outlook is expected he will spew all the talking point of his faith.

 

[Garaad Darawiish]

He condemned their Algeria colonization and got Obama support so Negros think he's an African lover but they don't see his real agenda. White supremacists like him play that flip flop, good cop bad cop on Negros, that's why they have the Left/Right, Lib/Cons, Dem/Gop playbooks, but if you look pass those deceptions they're just one big global white supremacy entity. They will never let Africans stand on their own because there is too much money at stake, they want Africans poor, in need and corrupt so that they can keep looting the continent. Every year, Africa loses $60 Billion Dollars to illicit financial flows which is way way more than what they give in aid, so it's not in their interest to have Africa working, the only reason they are worried now is because Africa's population is projected to grow very fast in the next few years so they're worried about being overrun by Negros like in the planet of the Apes.

 

[Inquisitive_]

Large families is a consequence of poverty, not the other way around. You'd have thought somebody who worked as a banker for the Rothschild's and managed to get elected as the President of France would have better critical thinking skills.

He knows this better then both of us, it's just theatre and deflection, it's a means of poisoning the discourse away from what's really at the heart of the issue and he has done a great job based on the majority of people on here defending him.

@Foreman

I agree with you but your describing the opposite extreme in order to defend the extremities on the other side of the fence, both are bad but the one your describing is the lesser of the evils because it at least acknowledges a higher being (although as an excuse for their laziness)

My post was taking the middle path of making dua first then going out doing your utmost in effort while having reliance on Allah because he ultimately controls the outcome, this is the balanced approach I was conveying.

Don't talk about "I rather this, or that.." type of scenarios because being poverty stricken with children will always trump being wealthy barren stressed/depressed, I work with the latter group and I see many of the former groups and believe me, the latter group are a multitude of degrees worse off in every facet of measurable metric whether it's health/spirituality or mental well being.

The barren group also look on average a decade older then their counterparts and the reason for this is very simple, the coolness of your eyes is in your children and this is particularly more so the case for women, I have these types of conversations with them all the time and they would all drop what they have for such a change, you see wealth but all they see is abject poverty and loneliness, money means nothing when poverty enters the heart.

 

[Rorschach]

Lol people in this thread arguing that poor should stop producing their insurance/welfare plan. Offspring who contribute to the family in the form of labour/work are key to 'poor people economics'. Every pair of working hands count when you're in squalor.

What good is a perfect little European 'nuclear family' of one daughter one son, if you end up losing half of the elderly members in your family because you don't have young hands to help the main provider(s)? It's a simple equation really; the effort required to raise a child is a small pay off in comparison to what you'll potentially get in return: a fresh resource for next how many ever decades.

I think you guys are seriously underplaying this colonialism thing too. The continent got well and truly FUCKED right into the ground. I'm starting to even think that this is some sort of divine ciqaab for some shit they did in the past. The scale of damage is unprecedented when you really research what they did.