Gibil-Madow Benadiris

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

Come to think of it, that is likely what he meant and the western translator probably got it confused. No way they were Shafi'i and and Shia, as far as I know. He probably meant they were Sufis. He describes their country as stretching from Saylac in the north down to around Xamar in the south and that the people are black-skinned and herd camels and sheep, obviously Somalis. He calls the land "Bilad al-Barbara" like other Arabs and Islamic chroniclers of around his time. I believe some others like al-Idrisi give the same mapping and generally extend Bilad al-Barbar down to the mouth of the Jubba. What was beneath was "Bilad al-Zanj" ("Swahili coast").

I mean we already know through linguistics, genetics and the local chronicles and oral histories but if you ever encounter some fool claiming the Koonfur coastal cities were "Swahili" feel free to point this out to them. They were not ever considered part of the Swahili coast and were particularly Cushitic Somaloid (Hawiye, Raxanweyn, Ajuuraan, Tunni and later Bimaal) in terms of native elements.

This is why I get so angry at Somalis for not documenting their own history and if they did, not maintaining the records. We are always relying on foreigners who could make all sorts of mistakes, innocently or on purpose.

 

[Shimbiris]

This is why I get so angry at Somalis for not documenting their own history and if they did, not maintaining the records. We are always relying on foreigners who could make all sorts of mistakes, innocently or on purpose.

Honestly, they probably did to some extent. A lot of it seems to have just been lost or might even still exist in places like Harar and it just hasn't been translated yet. I get the impression when the Italians and such show up in Xamar that there are actually local written historical chronicles about the present qabiils and not just oral traditions, though I maybe mistaken.

For example, in Harar where Somalis were prominent in the 19th century we know one of the most important ministers under the Emir, whose first among 4 wives was the daughter of a Somali chieftain,was a Somali of the Bartire clan and that he kept and wrote various works in Arabic and yet I've never heard of them and had to find about this guy who was respected enough to have his hands kissed when he visited Makkah, through a British source:

Shortly after arrival, I sent my Salam to one of the Ulema, Shaykh Jami of the Berteri Somal: he accepted the excuse of ill health, and at once came to see me. This personage appeared in the form of a little black man aged about forty, deeply pitted by small-pox, with a protruding brow, a tufty beard and rather delicate features: his hands and feet were remarkably small. Married to a descendant of the Sherif Yunis, he had acquired great reputation as an Alim or Savan, a peace-policy-man, and an ardent Moslem. Though an imperfect Arabic scholar, he proved remarkably well read in the religious sciences, and even the Meccans had, it was said, paid him the respect of kissing his hand during his pilgrimage. In his second character, his success was not remarkable, the principal results being a spear-thrust in the head, and being generally told to read his books and leave men alone. Yet he is always doing good “lillah,” that is to say, gratis and for Allah’s sake: his pugnacity and bluntness—the prerogatives of the “peaceful”—gave him some authority over the Amir, and he has often been employed on political missions amongst the different chiefs.​

First footsteps in East Africa : Richard Francis, Sir Burton : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

archive.org

And thanks to the civil war insanity we'll likely never get to see what works may have existed, at least around Xamar and its environs.

 

[GemState]

Honestly, they probably did to some extent. A lot of it seems to have just been lost or might even still exist in places like Harar and it just hasn't been translated yet. I get the impression when the Italians and such show up in Xamar that there are actually local written historical chronicles about the present qabiils and not just oral traditions, though I maybe mistaken.

For example, in Harar where Somalis were prominent in the 19th century we know one of the most important ministers under the Emir, whose first among 4 wives was the daughter of a Somali chieftain,was a Somali of the Bartire clan and that he kept and wrote various works in Arabic and yet I've never heard of them and had to find about this guy who was respected enough to have his hands kissed when he visited Makkah, through a British source:

First footsteps in East Africa : Richard Francis, Sir Burton : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

archive.org

And thanks to the civil war insanity we'll likely never get to see what works may have existed, at least around Xamar and its environs.

Back in the day, Somalis were around a 1/3 of Harar's population, that demographic has currently been replaced by Oromos, and a lot of the Somalis that remained have intermarried with other groups. A shame really

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

Back in the day, Somalis were around a 1/3 of Harar's population, that demographic has currently been replaced by Oromos, and a lot of the Somalis that remained have intermarried with other groups. A shame really

I think I saw a Harari on youtube with the Surname of "Garad", which I assume is Garaad and from a lost/assimilated Somali family.

 

[Woke1.4rm.Shibis]

Yeah, the Italians say this too:

And you can see they mention indhoweeyne. They do not mention any Gibil-Cads being present among these Iskashato, though.



Do you know when they made the shift to being more mixed? They were just Gibil-Madows in the time the Italians encountered them.



I'm confused, walaal. Do you have some examples? I've looked these guys up before and only turned up with this:



And the maternally Benadiri guy who gave me a rundown on them says the opposite of what you're saying which is that the cadcad types are a minority:

Gezira are Sheeikhal. Sometimes they confuse Sheikhaal for Gibil Cad or Arab because they claim descent from a seperate Arab Sheikh linked to Abu Bakr than other Somali clans and they are however a confederation which includes core founding native group/Madow)) and mixed minority immigrants(Cads) that are basically subs of eachother. ​

They were a small group when the Italians came along though (252 people) and didn't live in Xamar but on their island 20km away.



I'm aware and added that to my posts, walaal. They and the Murursade Hawiyes were quite important in Xamar.

Sorry for reply , totally forgot about this thread .

Do you know when they made the shift to being more mixed? They were just Gibil-Madows in the time the Italians encountered them.

I'm not sure , maybe after colonization they mixed more .

I'm confused, walaal. Do you have some examples? I've looked these guys up before and only turned up with this:

the first vid is a sheikhael clan that live in Ethiopia Who are called aw hassan . The second video is Jazeera sheikhael bah hassan , I accidently wrote "aw hassan" on my first reply .
Most bah Hassan's who are familly friends like this

Although I've seen some who are dark .maybe the italian made mistake because I know they all say they are arab .

 

[Hamzza]

Your thread was super informative for me sxb.
This is the italian census of 1931.

ashraaf, amuudi, rer faqay and arab salah were the only native mogadishu tribes of arab origin.

But there are cadcad tribes in the largely gibil madow confederations of iskaashato and badhawow, like shaanshi who are the most famous banadiri tribe and bahar suufi who are quite popular tribe in hamar weyne.

This is Sheekh Cali Axmed Abdi Nuur - late 1800s
One of the leaders of the Reer Xamar clan-Bandabo

He is said to have had 3 wives & several houses.

 

[Idilinaa]

Wallahi these pseudo historians claim that Mogadishu was found in 12 or 15 centuries is unbelievable

Mogadishu as a port town probably existed at an early date (as indicated by tombs and the periplus document) but the growth and expansion of the town from archeological grounds happened in the 12-13th century which is generally when Medieval Muslim writers began to write about it and the adjacent coastal towns.

Hawiye were actually banned from Mogadishu at night time, they were sent to the bushes.


Imagine that! Hawiye had a curfew placed on them by this guys ancestor:

@Shimbiris and @convincation is right , is the Gibil Madows who are trying to create a firm divide between them and their rural cousins , which was done to maintain their social distinctiveness and economic advantage.

This is pointed out about by Scott Reese in his research on Benadiri Somalis in his book: Patricians of the Benaadir: Islamic Learning, Commerce and Somali Urban Identity in the Nineteenth Century

He points out while analyzing a social-political book written by the Benadiri Shaykh Ayadurus that many of the main urban lineages in Reer Xamar have Hawiye roots: Which according to Benadiiri tradition like Amin Khalifow have been there from the earliest times:


However, the codification of such genealogies did not create a complete firewall between urban and rural clans, nor was it probably meant to do so. fiAydarüs, as he demonstrates through many of his genealogical lists, was well aware that a number of rural clans (such as the Hawiye) had important urban ties while a considerable number of urban clans (the Bendawow, for example) could point to ancestors with pastoral origins. Such links were often important elements in rural-urban commercial relationships that were the lifeblood of the community. fi Aydarüs’s goal was not to cut urbanites off from the rest of Somali society but to make them a distinctive part of it; an agenda he reveals in his discussion of urban genealogies

The Bendawow, on the other hand, held that their sole progenitor was a certain Amīn Khalifow a member of the pastoral Hawiye clan who settled in Mogadishu alongside the Morshow around the time of the town's founding.


He contextualizes this social-economic divide between rural and urban Somalis:

Numerous sources from the late nineteenth century note that nomads were allowed into the towns only when they had business to conduct in the market

In order to ensure that no unwanted rural visitors entered the city after dark, the towns were patrolled nightly by groups of armed militia drawn from the ranks of free male townsmen. Having said this, however, it is important to note that Benaadiris never sought to cut themselves off from rural society. Instead, their intention was to manage the urban–rural relationship in such a way as to maintain their own social distinctiveness and economic advantage.e. And, in fact, there were some notable exceptions to these restrictions. For example rural business partners and religious students were frequently allowed to reside in the towns for varying lengths of time as long as an urban notable sponsored their residency and vouched for their good behaviour and accepted responsibility for any difficulties that might arise.

Aydarüs’s agenda here is not difficult to discern. Rather than attempting to separate urban society from the pastoral majority, his goal is to demonstrate the place of urban society as an integral, but distinctive, segment of Somali society. As noted earlier, urban Somalis traditionally followed a pattern of maintaining close links with the rural community, but at the same time closely guarding their own spatial and social boundaries.

Also there is zero evidence that Abgaal's nomads forciby overran the town towards the end of the Ajuuran reign: They did assassinate the governor of Muqdisho and replace him though:

There is no evidence that Abgaal nomads forcibly overran the town ; the Yaaquub imams shared the governing of Muqdisho with the town's traditional leading families while continuing to exercise titular leadership over their rural Abgaal kinsmen

 

[Three Moons]

What happened to @Shimbiris?

 

[Emir of Zayla]

What happened to @Shimbiris?

Idk but he was a very knowledgeable veteran of the History/Cultural section of Somalispot. This thread is definitely interesting and definitely a top tier

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

Lots of mistakes and history revisionism about banadiris on this thread that I'll need to correct

 

[datesfrompuntland]

immaculate bookkeeping