Tukraq
VIP
I gave you the laughing emoji for that one and the insulting one for Mussolini, anyone who has been through ww2 history knows franco not someone commendable infact one of the least of that era
Yes, I figured the qashin might be for Mussolini
you can think what you want about Franco but I seriously doubt you really know about the subject.....
if you read a paragraph about him in your history class or read the Wikipedia article, I doubt you heard the real story
the media is biased against Franco and almost nothing that's been published about him in English will tell what really happened...
plus the 1930's to 1970's (and Civil War period) in Spain is extremely complex and I doubt you got anything close to the full picture..... you probably got a very distorted and simplified picture which was basically told from the Republican side... almost nothing published in English will give the other side of the story... but I mean also there's the extremely complex context...... if gambling wasn't haraam, I would bet a thousand dollars you don't know who José Antonio Primo de Rivera de Rivera was and certainly haven't studied his ideas but yet you would need to know about him in order to understand what happened in Spain... you would need to really have that sort of prerequisite information before you could form an educated viewpoint of Franco, rather than just repeat the standard line pushed by the media
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Tukraq
VIP
Spanish leader (neutral) in ww2, which was a bad position to hold outside Switzerland, in the age of the FDRs, stanlins, Churchill's and hitlers, he was the nobody in Europe of his era, and saw the decline of his country to obscurity
ie you don't actually know much about the man.... no one who is familiar with the history of that period would give such a description.... you're talking about him without having actually studied the subject
Tukraq
VIP
okay fill me in on what was so great? did nothing really in improving Spain and wasn't seen as an important leader in comparison to every other leader at the time
you don't actually know much about him or what was significant about him..... you're making statements which are not based on actually knowing about the topic.....
I'm not interested in filling you in.... you don't seem like an intellectual type and I'm not trying to have an intellectual discussion with you.... it would be like trying to have an intellectual discussion with "Mufti" Abu Layth..... before you can understand the significance of the topic, you would need to have a basic understanding of the topic and you would have to actually have an interest in gaining the basic understanding first.... rather than just trying to one-up and not actually caring about understanding what you talk about
Tukraq
VIP
okay let me make this clear I know all about him and have studied him, nothing significant about him in the slightest, just a run of the mill fascist dictator that didn't even garner any real recognition/ hated by his people/ weak and scared of war/ and sat through the decline of his nation to the obscurity its in today, of all the leaders of that era he's by far at the bottom on anyones radar, just wanted to see your points but it turns out you don't have any
No you haven't studied him
you are lying and you don't really know about the subject
you just want to chime in for some reason
can you name a book you've read about any period in Spanish history? you haven't studied the subject
Tukraq
VIP
read over 20 WW2 era books, studied franco for sure although it was a snooze fest least important leader of his era, were talking about the time of hitler, FDR, Churchill, Stalin, so you can see why boring run of the mill "neutral" dictator franco would be a bore, very inconsequential worldwide and not seen in a positive light in Spain
name a book you've read on the subject of any period in Spanish history
also what are these 20 WW2 books? I think you are lying
I think you're being like Sarah Palin where she claimed she reads all the newspapers but can't name one that she reads
anyone who knows about that period of Spanish history will be able to see that you don't actually know about the subject...... Franco was not really a figure of WW2..... and you say he was scared of war..... he led the nationalists to victory in the Spanish Civil War.... yes, Spain was not really involved in WW2..... Spain was busy fighting a Civil War.... why would they enter WW2 when they're in the middle of fighting a Civil War and when they're not really with the Allies or with Germany? just the fact that you try to focus on Franco in relation to WW2 shows that you don't really know about the subect.... his signficance isn't really in relation to WW2.....
I doubt you've even done more than skim through a bit of the Wikipedia article and you're trying to talk about a subject you don't actually know about
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Tukraq
VIP
in middle school went to the library and checked out and read the whole ww2 isle, but your ad hominem attacks fail to support the main notion of this thread on great leaders of which you can not demonstrate in anyway which franco was a good leader, but carry on with your fallacies
in middle school you went to the library and checked out the WW2 aisle....
no wonder you know basically nothing about Franco
it's fine that you don't know about the topic but don't try to talk about subjects you don't know about
Tukraq
VIP
hmm sounds like fallacious premises to me, you don't know about a topic isn't a point, sounds like something a hack would say, truth is I know more on the matter than you do, but won't resort to ad hominem, simply as premises are concerned franco was undoubtedly not the greatest world leader during his time heck not even close so its basically a non topic anyways
for instance....
you say
"Spanish leader in WW2"...... and I think pretty much every post of yours that mentions him mentions him in relation to WW2
meanwhile...... if you had even just read the Wikipedia article
you would know that Franco ruled Spain from 1939 to 1975.
He was in power for nearly forty years. The remainder of WW2 was a brief, tiny period of that time and he didn't join either side because he correctly didn't really support either. He wasn't really a WW2 figure. He won the Spanish Civil War. He was involved in a different war.
Pretty much anyone who knows the basics of the history of Spain would be able to read your posts and be able to tell that you don't really know the subject that you're talking about
doesn't mean you know about the Spanish Civil war or about the Francoist period in Spain.... that is a completely different topic and that you don't even realize that shows that you know basically nothing about the topic but you still want to chime in...
you say
"Spanish leader in WW2"...... and I think pretty much every post of yours that mentions him mentions him in relation to WW2
meanwhile...... if you had even just read the Wikipedia article
you would know that Franco ruled Spain from 1939 to 1975.
He was in power for nearly forty years. The remainder of WW2 was a brief, tiny period of that time and he didn't join either side because he correctly didn't really support either. He wasn't really a WW2 figure. He won the Spanish Civil War. He was involved in a different war.
Pretty much anyone who knows the basics of the history of Spain would be able to read your posts and be able to tell that you don't really know the subject that you're talking about
doesn't mean you know about the Spanish Civil war or about the Francoist period in Spain.... that is a completely different topic and that you don't even realize that shows that you know basically nothing about the topic but you still want to chime in...
Tukraq
VIP
in a thread about greatest all time leaders, a 20th century "leader" not involved in the Great War becomes a joke in comparison to the heroes and even the villains of that war, Spanish history in that time frame is very inconsequential in comparison, which reflects his low leadership level in comparison
Hybrid()
Death Awaits You
Josephs Stalin
This guy refused to save his own flesh and blood. The Soviet state matter to Stalin more than anything else.
Later on Yakov was captured by the nazis but many Soviet generals described him as a great soldier. Hitler proposed several deals with Stalin wanting to exchange a lieutenant for his son and Stalin replied
“There are no prisoners of war, only traitors to their homeland,” and families were treated accordingly. His Son was later executed by the nazis in a prisoners camp.
This guy refused to save his own flesh and blood. The Soviet state matter to Stalin more than anything else.
Later on Yakov was captured by the nazis but many Soviet generals described him as a great soldier. Hitler proposed several deals with Stalin wanting to exchange a lieutenant for his son and Stalin replied
“There are no prisoners of war, only traitors to their homeland,” and families were treated accordingly. His Son was later executed by the nazis in a prisoners camp.
Tukraq
VIP
I don't see how him treating his son with hatred is a good thing, the way he treated his own son through his life speaks volumes honestly, this had nothing to do with the state
Hybrid()
Death Awaits You
It had everything to do with the state. Also Yakov was only a soldier whereas hitler wanted to exchange him for a lieutenant. That’s also not fair.
Tukraq
VIP
he hated his son way before leadership and even pushed him to an unsuccessful suicide attempt which he joked about, Stalin wouldn't have traded yakov back even if they only wanted a loaf of bread let alone a lieutenant lol
Intellectual type!??? Intellectual discussions??!??
Who has intellectual discussions with you of all people??? Even @Tukraq is miles above you in the intelligence factor. There's no way you should even be lauding about someone not being an intellectual person.
