Hellenic northeast africa

[Midas]

It occurred to me that if there was any Somali language wiring discovered what would be the source of literature they modeled themselves after ? Then I remembered that both the ezana stone and the periplus of the Erythrean Sea show us that there was a decent Greek presence in Northerast africa. For at least 300 years continously. Since the periplus and the ezana stone are seperated in time by around 300 years. Even the aksumite coniage had greek writings on it . This must have had a huge influence

Imagine plato and aristole translated into af somali.

@NidarNidar @Idilinaa

 

[cunug3aad]

"wax keli oo xikma xaq ah waa wax oo adi aqaan karo ma jirto"
"JECEL WAA XANUUN MASKAX KHATAR"
Khutbaat written for generations to come

 

[Shimbiris]

They've found things like ancient Greek theatre masks all the way in Bari burials and we know our ancestors made very regular contact with them.

Then it's remarkable how Zoskales who seems a sort of Classical predecessor to the Medieval Medri Bahri-:

Medri Bahri - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

-was described as not just a Greek speaker but also a reader of Greek philosophy and this is in a time period before the Christianisation of Northern Eritrea and Ethiopia.

I think Hellenic culture definitely had an influence on our ancestors. It was pretty much all the rage everywhere after Alexander's conquests.

 

[Midas]

They've found things like ancient Greek theatre masks all the way in Bari burials and we know our ancestors made very regular contact with them.

Then it's remarkable how Zoskales who seems a sort of Classical predecessor to the Medieval Medri Bahri-:

Medri Bahri - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

-was described as not just a Greek speaker but also a reader of Greek philosophy and this is in a time period before the Christianisation of Northern Eritrea and Ethiopia.

I think Hellenic culture definitely had an influence on our ancestors. It was pretty much all the rage everywhere after Alexander's conquests.

Wow they found greek masks ? I didn't think the influence was so pervasive that it even affected our burial traditions.

I guess it does make sense. Since human shaped sculptures like the ones that have been discovered all decsend from Greek art . Like all the other human shaped statues. I honestly don't think there's anything else we can discover that I'd be surprised

Imagine schools in somalia in 20 years. They're probably gonna have several textbooks devoted to learning about preislamic somali civilization.

 

[Shimbiris]

Wow they found greek masks ? I didn't think the influence was so pervasive that it even affected our burial traditions.

I guess it does make sense. Since human shaped sculptures like the ones that have been discovered all decsend from Greek art . Like all the other human shaped statues. I honestly don't think there's anything else we can discover that I'd be surprised

Imagine schools in somalia in 20 years. They're probably gonna have several textbooks devoted to learning about preislamic somali civilization.

Yes a little girl in the northeast was buried with a Greek theatre mask. Was posted about on this forum, actually but I lost the thread:

University of Chicago Press Journals: Cookie absent

Little girl was buried with Roman goods too like a jug, from what I recall.

 

[Aurelian]

Yes a little girl in the northeast was buried with a Greek theatre mask. Was posted about on this forum, actually but I lost the thread:

University of Chicago Press Journals: Cookie absent

Little girl was buried with Roman goods too like a jug, from what I recall.

I wonder if she is Somali in origin or not. Is there any genetic study on the remains in time soon?

 

[Aseer]

Past, present and future of pastoralism in Greece - Pastoralism

Pastoral farming has been a feature of the Greek scene since antiquity. The geomorphology of the area, climatic conditions and the prevailing systems of agricultural production in lowland regions at any given time have all been conducive to the development and preservation of this productive...

pastoralismjournal.springeropen.com

This article claims how ancient greeks were agro-pastoralists it really makes sense how the greek peninsula wasnt united most of the time and were instead city states who collaborated with eachother, its the same case for ancient somalis.

 

[Shimbiris]

Past, present and future of pastoralism in Greece - Pastoralism

Pastoral farming has been a feature of the Greek scene since antiquity. The geomorphology of the area, climatic conditions and the prevailing systems of agricultural production in lowland regions at any given time have all been conducive to the development and preservation of this productive...

pastoralismjournal.springeropen.com

This article claims how ancient greeks were agro-pastoralists it really makes sense how the greek peninsula wasnt united most of the time and were instead city states who collaborated with eachother, its the same case for ancient somalis.

Did you find this through my recent post? Wild catch and coincidence if not and good eye.

I'm somewhat reminded of what I've more recently been learning about Ancient Greece which is that it was actually an essentially an Agro-Pastoral society:

Past, present and future of pastoralism in Greece - Pastoralism

Pastoral farming has been a feature of the Greek scene since antiquity. The geomorphology of the area, climatic conditions and the prevailing systems of agricultural production in lowland regions at any given time have all been conducive to the development and preservation of this productive...

pastoralismjournal.springeropen.com

The Identification of pastoralist sites Within the context of estate-based agriculture in ancient Greece: beyond the ‘Transhumance versus agro-pastoralism’ debate

The present ‘transhumance versus agro-pastoralism’ debate is here set within the context of a broadly based anthropological approach to pastoralism. Certain constant features of the relationship of pastoralists to their landscape are identifiable,

www.academia.edu

Much of mainland Greece and the islands are simply not suited for large-scale agriculture—too rocky, mountainous, and with thin soil. To make up for this, the Greeks heavily supplemented their agricultural economy with animal husbandry and transhumance. They herded goats and sheep seasonally between highland and lowland pastures, relying on their milk and meat as dietary staples. It’s no coincidence that many early Greek myths, like those of the Homeric heroes, often portray shepherd figures tending their flocks—pastoral life was deeply embedded in their cultural identity.

What's been standing out to me is how mobile and adaptive the Greek economy seems to have been. Households often shifted between different roles depending on the season or family structure—some members farming what land they could, others herding animals, trading, sailing, or even fighting. Sounds a whole lot like how it appears Somali society functioned except we had bigger herd animals in the form of camels and cattle and less mountainous and rocky terrain.

@Idilinaa @Midas @Xareen @NidarNidar

But yes, the similarities began occurring to me and even @Idilinaa as we began to really read the articles:

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

This still actually reflected in their diets until fairly recently. Many Greeks, particularly along the islands and inland were still eating majority pastoral diets (dairy products + goat/sheep meat with quite a small amount of bread on the side) just a couple of generations ago:



I really can't help but notice parallels even with the seafaring culture and emphasis on trade. It shouldn't be lost on folks that before the civil war Somalia apparently had the largest merchant fleet in Africa and the Muslim World, the same way Greece has the largest fleet in Europe and big shipping businesses to this day. Makes you wonder if our ancestors felt any sort of affinity toward them.

 

[Aseer]

Did you find this through my recent post? Wild catch and coincidence if not and good eye.



But yes, the similarities began occurring to me and even @Idilinaa as we began to really read the articles:

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

This still actually reflected in their diets until fairly recently. Many Greeks, particularly along the islands and inland were still eating majority pastoral diets (dairy products + goat/sheep meat with quite a small amount of bread on the side) just a couple of generations ago:



I really can't help but notice parallels even with the seafaring culture and emphasis on trade. It shouldn't be lost on folks that before the civil war Somalia apparently had the largest merchant fleet in Africa and the Muslim World, the same way Greece has the largest fleet in Europe and big shipping businesses to this day. Makes you wonder if our ancestors felt any sort of affinity toward them.

A mate of mine sent it to me lol also do you think the agro-pastoralist economic system in somalia was independently developed? I mean we didnt have that much neighbours to exchange knowledge with also what did you mean by us having the largest merchant fleet in africa and the muslim world before the civil war? Are you referring to medieval times?

 

[Shimbiris]

A mate of mine sent it to me lol also do you think the agro-pastoralist system in somalia was independently developed? I mean we didnt have that much neighbours to exchange knowledgr with also what did you mean by us having the largest merchant fleet in africa and the muslim world before the civil war? Do you mean by medieval times or the modern period

Modern period. If you look it up on google even Gemini is aware:

Yes, before its civil war, Somalia possessed the largest private merchant fleet in the Muslim world, not just Africa, consisting of oil tankers, bulk ore carriers, and other crafts.

Here's a more detailed breakdown:

• Pre-Civil War Significance:
  Before the Somali Civil War, Somalia's maritime sector was a significant part of its economy, with a large private merchant fleet.
  
  
• Fleet Composition:
  The fleet included 12 oil tankers (average size 1300 tons), 15 bulk ore carriers (average size 15000 tons), and 207 other crafts with an average tonnage of 5000 to 10000.
  
  
• Largest in the Muslim World:
  The Somali merchant fleet was not only the largest in Africa but also the largest in the Muslim world at that time.
  
  
• Impact of the Civil War:
  The Somali Civil War, which began in 1990, had a devastating impact on the country's maritime sector, leading to the decline and eventual collapse of the fleet.
  
  
• Piracy:
  The collapse of the government and the ensuing civil conflict led to the rise of piracy off the coast of Somalia, which further destabilized the region and impacted international shipping.

We had quite the burgeoning merchant fleet. Goes to show how historical patterns hold into the modern era. Strong seafaring culture during the Early Modern Period (1700s-1800s) seemingly built on a bedrock of seafaring going by to even the 1st-to-6th centuries CE and then you have a strong commercial fleet built up during the world's industrial age. Same reason Somalis are such prolific business people across Africa and various parts of the world; it is built on a bedrock of being descended from tradesmen since the times when our ancestors were making contact with Greeks and Old South Arabians.

And I think it's just an extension of the normal versatile pastoralism that probably existed going back to when our ancestors were in Nubia during the Bronze-Age and Neolithic with some of it influenced by contact and exchange with Arabia. This in turn is just similar to the general dominant way of life across the Eastern Mediterranean and Red Sea world that ran alongside the sort of more static and stratified settled-farmer way of life you find in a place like Egypt.

 

[KingKalbi]

Even the aksumite coniage had greek writings on it . This must have had a huge influence

Surpringly there wasn’t that much influence. The reason for the Greek writings on the coinage was because there were lots of Greek speakers from Egypt and the Levant in Adulis so they likely wanted to cater to them.

Looking at Axum or Adulis material culture the Greek influence is there but nothing major.