History in india

[Midas]

Im reading more of this paper and i cant get over the fact. That these scholars had the exact same train of thought I did. It's definitely made me more confident in my speculation for sure.

 

[Idilinaa]

Lol I just found this paper from 2004 yesterday that I've been reading that basically confirmed after I tried to find about ancient india
That the "individual valley script" is not actually a script at all but just administrative tokens like we find in mesomptoiaa as far back as 8000 b.c
And that writing in India was introduced with the arrival of the persian empire in like 500 b.cView attachment 347127

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Persian empire arrival is the Aryan invasion right? I heard Daniel from the Muslim skeptic say that their arrival created the caste system in India as well.

One thing more though shared in his video is that Indians were ignorant of geography

I looked more into it and the there is dearth of geographical written texts or even detailed maps in ancient and early medieval Indian literature. There is no evidence of cartography.

This was their conception of the world and it's just nonsense.

The only real-world geographic details that the above map gets right, is that India (Bharata) is bounded on the north by the Himalaya mountains (Himavat) and the south by a great ocean. Everything else is fantasy.

So they didn't have much interest in geography unlike other civilizations

 

[Ghengis Kaarhis]

Persian empire arrival is the Aryan invasion right? I heard Daniel from the Muslim skeptic say that their arrival created the caste system in India as well.

One thing more though shared in his video is that Indians were ignorant of geography

I looked more into it and the there is dearth of geographical written texts or even detailed maps in ancient and early medieval Indian literature. There is no evidence of cartography.

This was their conception of the world and it's just nonsense.
View attachment 347131


So they didn't have profound interests in geography unlike other civilizations

India is Ethiopia 2.0 tries to take credit for all of its neighbours accomplishments. Motherfuckers taking about bahrat and shit but can’t even draw maps

 

[Midas]

Persian empire arrival is the Aryan invasion right? I heard Daniel from the Muslim skeptic say that their arrival created the caste system in India as well.

One thing more though shared in his video is that Indians were ignorant of geography

I looked more into it and the there is dearth of geographical written texts or even detailed maps in ancient and early medieval Indian literature. There is no evidence of cartography.

This was their conception of the world and it's just nonsense.
View attachment 347131


So they take profound interests in geography unlike other civilizations

Nah he's being dumb saying that. These maps were not meant to represent the world like regular maps its more cosmology. (Spiritual map of the universe) even china didn't which was much more urbanized didn't conquer outside china really becuae it was already so big. Plus horses have to be imported into India becuase the climate in India is not good for breeding horses. You can't have a large empire without a massive supply of horses ( this is ust one reason among many reasons thag India couldn'tconquer other regions they were barely able to unfiy all of india )

The caste system has actually has origins in the indo europeans people which spoke the Indo-European languages. But the actual control and elevation of priests as the highest caste might actually have deeper roots in the indus valley cvilization. As far as genetics go the castes seem to have stabilized between 3-2000 thousand years (you can find David reich interview on YouTube where he talks about this)

 

[Midas]

India is Ethiopia 2.0 tries to take credit for all of its neighbours accomplishments. Motherfuckers taking about bahrat and shit but can’t even draw maps

Nah dorn get twisted they might not be as old. But don't forget that hinduism and buddbism influenced all of asia. Southeast asia even borrowed their poltical structure and literature models after India. Even today when the king of Thailand is being coronation it has to be a Brahman monk from India who does the ceremony. Indian cvilization is to southeast asia what Greece is to western civilization

 

[Idilinaa]

Nah he's being dumb saying that. These maps were not meant to represent the world like regular maps its more cosmology. (Spiritual map of the universe) even china didn't which was much more urbanized didn't conquer outside china really becuae it was already so big. Plus horses have to be imported into India becuase the climate in India is not good for breeding horses. You can't have a large empire without a massive supply of horses ( this is ust one reason among many reasons thag India couldn'tconquer other regions they were barely able to unfiy all of india )

The caste system has actually has origins in the indo europeans people which spoke the Indo-European languages. But the actual control and elevation of priests as the highest caste might actually have deeper roots in the indus valley cvilization. As far as genetics go the castes seem to have stabilized between 3-2000 thousand years (you can find David reich interview on YouTube where he talks about this)

The difference between China and say Egypt for example is that they didn't have a conquering ideology outside of their main domain, they saw their land as blessed, prefered to stay in their lands and didn't care much for what was in the furthest reaches

But India was different, Hindu texts is just filled with conquering stuff.

The lack of geogrpahical of knownledge was offered up as an explanation of why they didn't conquere the outside world , despite expressing aspirations to.

If you look up cartography of early medieval and ancient civilizations you will find that there was attempts to understand the world in various parts of the world except for India.

Chinese map showing the territory of the Ming dynasty and other countries in 1389:

map of Europe and surrounding lands contained in the Catalan Atlas, produced in Iberia in the 14th century:

World map created by Muhammad al-Idrisi, an 11th century Moroccan geographer

You can also find evidence of cartography by Egyptians, Romans, Persians and Greeks. Along with it extensive writings about the geographical locations of the ''known world''.

 

[Ghengis Kaarhis]

Nah dorn get twisted they might not be as old. But don't forget that hinduism and buddbism influenced all of asia. Southeast asia even borrowed their poltical structure and literature models after India. Even today when the king of Thailand is being coronation it has to be a Brahman monk from India who does the ceremony. Indian cvilization is to southeast asia what Greece is to western civilization

Don’t kill my vibe I’m enjoying xaaring on this xaar worshipping nation

 

[Idilinaa]

Btw @Midas while we are on the topic of cartography , are you familiar with this Somali sailor from Mogadishu year 1615

Maalim Ibrahim - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Roe provided Maalim with a nautical map of the region, and was intrigued when the Somali captain pointed out numerous cartographic errors in his map, and then revealed his own, which Roe summarised as a “graduated map of high quality” drawn on parchment and subsequently began adjusting his own map based on that of Maalim

Probably the first medieval reference to Somali cartography/map making. It would be cool if we were to find some fragments of parchments in buried under sand around Mogadishu among other things.

 

[Midas]

Btw @Midas while we are on the topic of cartography , are you familiar with this Somali sailor from Mogadishu year 1615

Maalim Ibrahim - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Probably the first medieval reference to Somali cartography/map making. It would be cool if we were to find some fragments of parchments in buried under sand around Mogadishu among other things.

Nah I've only see some guy on Twitter correcting somebody who tried to say the maalim guy was a swahili sailor. It's interesting though how e have evidence of somali technical knowledge in glimpses. Boat making, cartography here, and the clanderical evidence from that insciripton that talks about a somali year

 

[Midas]

Here's something funny I watched a YouTube video that came out yesterday where they were doing a presentation on inscriptions from a village in Northern ethiopia. He brought up the dahlak inscriptions. But they didn't mention the ones from Mogadishu. I wondered to myself if he was even aware that there were inscriptions from mogadihsu that predates the ones he's talking about by almost 250 years.

 

[Idilinaa]

Nah I've only see some guy on Twitter correcting somebody who tried to say the maalim guy was a swahili sailor. It's interesting though how e have evidence of somali technical knowledge in glimpses. Boat making, cartography here, and the clanderical evidence from that insciripton that talks about a somali year

I looked into the sources in the refrence links of that article it plainly says he is from Mogadishu and not the swahili coast.

You know whats strange about it? that Thomas Roe sailed around Indian ocean and the only one to correct details and mistakes in his map was a Somali. It might just be that level expertise was hard to come by.

 

[Emir of Zayla]

I looked into the sources in the refrence links of that article it plainly says he is from Mogadishu and not the swahili coast.

You know whats strange about it? that Thomas Roe sailed around Indian ocean and the only one to correct details and mistakes in his map was a Somali. It might just be that level expertise was hard to come by.

I’m not surprised, Somalis have been sailing the Red Sea and Indian Ocean for millennia’s, having accurate maps for locations and routes to take were essential to merchants and travelers.

 

[The alchemist]

Lol I just found this paper from 2004 yesterday that I've been reading that basically confirmed after I tried to find about ancient india
That the "individual valley script" is not actually a script at all but just administrative tokens like we find in mesomptoiaa as far back as 8000 b.c
And that writing in India was introduced with the arrival of the persian empire in like 500 b.cView attachment 347127

View attachment 347125View attachment 347126View attachment 347125View attachment 347126View attachment 347127

Those symbols could have been proto-scripts, i.e., signs that culturally embody consistent interpretive meaning.

Early to peak Indus Valley Civilization (IVC) was represented by non-Aryan ancestry of mainly Iranian-related ancestry mixed with South Asian hunter-gatherers that shared deep drift with the Andaman islanders, and minor Western Siberian hunter-gatherer type variation that likely represented endemic ancestry from the region itself before the Iranian migration during prehistory.

These are clear IVC-related peripheral samples in the BMAC horizon:

Yamnaya represents a portion of that Siberian ancestry. Yamnaya-type people did not come to South Asia until 2100 BCE, whereas these are dated to the Bronze Age.

The script of IVC Seeing past the discussion over the speculation of how we classify the status of the script, it had nothing to do with the Indo-Aryans. Granted those people makes up the bulk of the Indians today. A complex two way clinal relationship between those peoples shown on the model above that resilantly mixed with incursing Yamnaya-like pastoralist formed one component. Another one that was represented by Ancestral South Indians-heavy samples that had Iranian related ancestry to lesser degree significes the other aspect of Iron age to modern Indians ancestry profile. Indians today are a mix of those three and two-way clusters.

 

[Khaem]

I've recently began reading quite a bit about indina for a while now. I came across this in a book i started a couple days ago. Which has confirmed my view on Indian history
"not a single document from any royal archive has been preserved for the period covered in this book" ( the period he is talking about is all of premodern india)

View attachment 347059
for a long time now ive been trying to find something on Indian history but nothing comes up. Thats when it dawned on me that there is basically no recorded Indian history before the Muslims and even then it only really begins with the mughals who came to power in the 1500s. To put it into perspective we know more about the han dynasty (200b.c -200 a.d) then we do all of premodern india before the mughals put together . It's why you never hear about Indian history the way you do about the chiense dynasties. I also suspect that india was even more commonly decentralized than we assume. Consdier the fact that the largest hindu and buddhist temples are from southeast Asia. Nothing in India comes even remotely close to what the southeast asian empires which were much smaller built.

India has one of the oldest Civilisations but we know basically nothing about them.

China is on the same level but they centralised and created an autocratic state that kept records of everything.

India had a interesting development though, their societies weren't dominated by Millitary or Beauracy like the rest of the civilised world. But they were ruled by Religous classes of Brahmins. Who themselves had an ideology which viewed the material world as worthless. History of battles and politics didn't matter to these Brahmin priests who were the only literate segment of Indian society. They only concerned themselves with writing religious texts and sometimes you'd find ancient books on Philosophy or Maths, science. But histories as written by Middle easterners, Greeks or Chinese didn't exist.