How accurate are these maps?

[Grant]

These are James Dahl's maps. Here is some of what he has to say about Himyar:

https://historyinthehorn.wordpress.com/2011/09/02/when-himyar-ruled-the-banadir/

'Muqdisho is a very old city, older than most people even realize. The first dynasty to rule Muqdisho was the Tubba’ dynasty of the Himyar kingdom, with the king “Ascad Karb“. Ascad Karb is most likely As’ad Abu-Karib ibn Malik-karib, a king of Yemen who ruled between 418 and 433 CE and a convert to Judaism by Yathrib’s Jewish community following a military campaign there, this dates the foundation of the old town of Xamar Weyne to roughly 420-430 CE.'

The site also has articles on Aksum and Ahmed Gurey. According to the Periplus, Charibael of Himyar ruled Azania, which included the entire Indian Ocean coast as far north as the Cape of Spices (Aromata), and as far south as Tanzania.

 

[random12345]

These are James Dahl's maps. Here is some of what he has to say about Himyar:

'Muqdisho is a very old city, older than most people even realize. The first dynasty to rule Muqdisho was the Tubba’ dynasty of the Himyar kingdom, with the king “Ascad Karb“. Ascad Karb is most likely As’ad Abu-Karib ibn Malik-karib, a king of Yemen who ruled between 418 and 433 CE and a convert to Judaism by Yathrib’s Jewish community following a military campaign there, this dates the foundation of the old town of Xamar Weyne to roughly 420-430 CE.'

The site also has articles on Aksum and Ahmed Gurey. According to the Periplus, Charibael of Himyar ruled Azania, which included the entire Indian Ocean coast as far north as the Cape of Spices (Aromata), and as far south as Tanzania.

Himyar in Konfuur? This has to be a joke. Where are these semitic inscriptions? They're all over Ethiopia and even became their language(kinda).

 

[Grant]

Himyar:

http://www.alsadiqin.org/en/index.php?title=Saba_and_Himyar

"It was the dominant state in Arabia until 525 CE. The economy was based on agriculture. Foreign trade was based on the export of frankincense and myrrh. For many years it was also the major intermediary linking East Africa and the Mediterranean world. This trade largely consisted of exporting ivory from Africa to be sold in the Roman Empire. Ships from Himyar regularly traveled the East African coast, and the state also exerted a considerable amount of political control of the trading cities of East Africa. The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea describes the trading empire of Himyar and its ruler Charibael (Karab Il Watar Yuhan'em II), who is said to have been on friendly terms with Rome:

"23. And after nine days more there is Saphar, the metropolis, in which lives Charibael, lawful king of two tribes, the Homerites and those living next to them, called the Sabaites; through continual embassies and gifts, he is a friend of the Emperors."|Periplus of the Erythraean Sea, Paragraph 23.[2]

Himyarite coin, influenced by coins of Augustus. 1st century CE.
The last sovereign Tubba Himyarite king, (Arabic: ذو نواس Dhu Nuwas) is often considered to have converted to Judaism. His war against the Ethiopian Aksumite Christians in his kingdom, resulted in a famous massacre in Najran. Other Ethiopian and Himyarite Christians at Zafar were massacred. Emperor Justinian informed Kings of Axum Kaleb of Axum of the Ethiopian Kingdom of Aksum about Dhu Nuwas's actions, encouraging him to intervene. Around 525, Kaleb invaded Himyar and defeated the Jewish King, but his first viceroy was later removed by Abraha, an Aksumite General. Abraha later recognized Aksum's dominion over him and continued to rule Himyar until 570 CE. A coalition of History of Yemen and Sassanid dynasty later replaced Kingdom of Aksum governance with a Sassanid dynasty one. In 632 CE Himyar was absorbed into the Islamic empire.

The Himyarite language was spoken in the south-western Arabian peninsula until the 10th century."

 

[horumar]

Searched up the inscriptions and they're yet to be deciphered. That means that it can't be Himyarite or Sabaean. It isn't a south Arabian language anyway(those we know of)

The inscriptions are written in the old south arabian alphabet, if it isn't in any of those languages, maybe it was used to write ancient somali?

 

[horumar]

Himyar:

http://www.alsadiqin.org/en/index.php?title=Saba_and_Himyar

"It was the dominant state in Arabia until 525 CE. The economy was based on agriculture. Foreign trade was based on the export of frankincense and myrrh. For many years it was also the major intermediary linking East Africa and the Mediterranean world. This trade largely consisted of exporting ivory from Africa to be sold in the Roman Empire. Ships from Himyar regularly traveled the East African coast, and the state also exerted a considerable amount of political control of the trading cities of East Africa. The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea describes the trading empire of Himyar and its ruler Charibael (Karab Il Watar Yuhan'em II), who is said to have been on friendly terms with Rome:

"23. And after nine days more there is Saphar, the metropolis, in which lives Charibael, lawful king of two tribes, the Homerites and those living next to them, called the Sabaites; through continual embassies and gifts, he is a friend of the Emperors."|Periplus of the Erythraean Sea, Paragraph 23.[2]

Himyarite coin, influenced by coins of Augustus. 1st century CE.
The last sovereign Tubba Himyarite king, (Arabic: ذو نواس Dhu Nuwas) is often considered to have converted to Judaism. His war against the Ethiopian Aksumite Christians in his kingdom, resulted in a famous massacre in Najran. Other Ethiopian and Himyarite Christians at Zafar were massacred. Emperor Justinian informed Kings of Axum Kaleb of Axum of the Ethiopian Kingdom of Aksum about Dhu Nuwas's actions, encouraging him to intervene. Around 525, Kaleb invaded Himyar and defeated the Jewish King, but his first viceroy was later removed by Abraha, an Aksumite General. Abraha later recognized Aksum's dominion over him and continued to rule Himyar until 570 CE. A coalition of History of Yemen and Sassanid dynasty later replaced Kingdom of Aksum governance with a Sassanid dynasty one. In 632 CE Himyar was absorbed into the Islamic empire.

The Himyarite language was spoken in the south-western Arabian peninsula until the 10th century."

This is a good video on the massacre at Najran, if you understand arabic:

Also, what would be needed in the east african coast to trade there, and if they exercised a large amount of control, wouldn't that conflict with the persian presence in xamar?

 

[oday1kenobi]

The inscriptions are written in the old south arabian alphabet, if it isn't in any of those languages, maybe it was used to write ancient somali?

Or the ancient Cushitic forbearer of Somali/afar?

 

[horumar]

Or the ancient Cushitic forbearer of Somali/afar?

Isn't the Somali language roughly 3000 years old?

 

[SomaliWadaniSoldier]

James Dahl aka Secret Agent

 

[random12345]

Isn't the Somali language roughly 3000 years old?

Walaal I searched it up, it hasn't been deciphered yet so it can't be himyarite. I doubt it's semetic(south Arabian) because why would it only be in Somalia but not Yemen? Maybe it is Somali and I hope it is. Also, the "Persian presence" in Xamar seems ridiculous too. Probably something else from James Dahl. I say this because Mogadishu being derived from Persian is far fetched(it even has a Somali translation). I'll say this, James Dahl even tried to attribute "xamar" to Himyar

 

[horumar]

Walaal I searched it up, it hasn't been deciphered yet so it can't be himyarite. I doubt it's semetic(south Arabian) because why would it only be in Somalia but not Yemen? Maybe it is Somali and I hope it is. Also, the "Persian presence" in Xamar seems ridiculous too. Probably something else from James Dahl. I say this because Mogadishu being derived from Persian is far fetched(it even has a Somali translation). I'll say this, James Dahl even tried to attribute "xamar" to Himyar

Lool james is funny, but i thank him for the work he's done with the abtirisi site especially.

With regards to the inscriptions, sada mire pointed it out in one of her publications and showed a map, but here's a ted talk where she mentions it:

Also seeing as it is south arabian inscriptons, it's found all over the red sea coast and inland horn of africa and yemen.

As for the language, someone posted it on the somali origins thread i think here or somnet i can't remember but here's the link:
https://ancientsomali.wordpress.com/2012/01/23/how-old-are-the-somali-people-and-somali-language/

It mentions this:

4,000 BC

At this date the Somali language has separated from other cushitic languages such as oromo, the evidence is the number of different sub-languages originating from the oromo and Somali branches of the afro-asiactic languages in comparison with semetic (which has a later origin). Even today some oromo languages and Somali remain unintelligible to within the group.

 

[random12345]

Lool james is funny, but i thank him for the work he's done with the abtirisi site especially.

With regards to the inscriptions, sada mire pointed it out in one of her publications and showed a map, but here's a ted talk where she mentions it:

Also seeing as it is south arabian inscriptons, it's found all over the red sea coast and inland horn of africa and yemen.

As for the language, someone posted it on the somali origins thread i think here or somnet i can't remember but here's the link:
https://ancientsomali.wordpress.com/2012/01/23/how-old-are-the-somali-people-and-somali-language/

It mentions this:

4,000 BC

At this date the Somali language has separated from other cushitic languages such as oromo, the evidence is the number of different sub-languages originating from the oromo and Somali branches of the afro-asiactic languages in comparison with semetic (which has a later origin). Even today some oromo languages and Somali remain unintelligible to within the group.

Nice article walaal. It talked about the Eritrean/Ethiopian colony though and not Somalia. Results I get for searching the Somali inscriptions is speculation of it being a Somali language(this tells me that nobody knows what it was. Though not Semetic for certain because we would recognise it). I checked the wikipedia page and got this:
"I also discovered ancient ruins and rock-inscriptions both in pictures and characters[...] These have hitherto not been deciphered."[2]

Royal Geographical Society (Great Britain), Proceedings of the Royal Geographical Society of London, Volume 22, "Mr. J. M. Hildebrandt on his Travels in East Africa", (Edward Stanford: 1878), p. 447.

 

[horumar]

Nice article walaal. It talked about the Eritrean/Ethiopian colony though and not Somalia. Results I get for searching the Somali inscriptions is speculation of it being a Somali language(this tells me that nobody knows what it was. Though not Semetic for certain because we would recognise it). I checked the wikipedia page and got this:
"I also discovered ancient ruins and rock-inscriptions both in pictures and characters[...] These have hitherto not been deciphered."[2]

Royal Geographical Society (Great Britain), Proceedings of the Royal Geographical Society of London, Volume 22, "Mr. J. M. Hildebrandt on his Travels in East Africa", (Edward Stanford: 1878), p. 447.

I found one of the pictures she took:

I can read south arabian, the last 2 look like h(somali X) and the last one looks like d

i think they are turned around and it starts with the d and then x and then b and then y
dxby????
daxby?

maybe that's an old somali word???

 

[random12345]

I found one of the pictures she took:

I can read south arabian, the last 2 look like h(somali X) and the last one looks like d

i think they are turned around and it starts with the d and then x and then b and then y
dxby????
daxby?

maybe that's an old somali word???

I wouldn't know

 

[horumar]

I wouldn't know

Haha, now i'm certain it's upside down, if i write it like this:

d/ḥ//b/y

Yes, this must be an old somali word, or in fact a name! Daxbi or something, must have been a name of someone, a tombstone??

Maybe it was a king, damn, we truly wuz kings n shiet

 

[Grant]

Acccording to Sada Mire:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10437-015-9184-9#Sec8

"There is an extensive and ancient relationship between the people and cultures of both sides of the Red Sea coast (Phillipson 1998). Rock art sites such as Dhagah Nabi Gallay and Dhagah Kureh include Sabaean and Himyarite writings associated with South Arabia (see Map 3). In certain contexts, they appear to have been added to the rock art later, suggesting by superimposition. In 2007, more rock art sites with Sabaean and Himyarite writings in and around Hargeysa region were found, but sadly some were bulldozed by developers, as the Ministry of Tourism could not buy the land or stop the destruction. I have also recorded a burial site with such writings in Shalcaw (39), on the Red Sea coast (see Fig. 4). Furthermore, the Qar-Gebi megalithic burials include what might be ancient writings, perhaps Himyarite and Sabaean, but it needs to be confirmed. The Pre-Aksumite cultures of current-day Ethiopia are linked with South Arabian kingdoms. The Pre-Aksumite Empire itself might have been part of, or at least culturally linked with, contemporary kingdoms in what is now the Somali-populated region. Not only are there links through the findings of Himyarite and Sabaean writings, but also early Christianity seems to have spread throughout the Horn, including the Somali region, as explored below. However, the burial site of Shal’aw is associated with other ancient burials in the immediate wadis in this sandy coastal landscape. The “wadi burials” are part of an ancient landscape that has been washed away by the floods and now exposed vertically, showing clear stratigraphic levels. If these burials can be rescued in time, there is a potential that we learn more about first-millennium BCE cultures of this little known Red Sea region, and associations with the Himyarite and Sabaean cultures, as well as perhaps ancient Egypt and the trade in frankincense and myrrh, still a big part of the economy in this area."

 

[horumar]

Acccording to Sada Mire:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10437-015-9184-9#Sec8

"There is an extensive and ancient relationship between the people and cultures of both sides of the Red Sea coast (Phillipson 1998). Rock art sites such as Dhagah Nabi Gallay and Dhagah Kureh include Sabaean and Himyarite writings associated with South Arabia (see Map 3). In certain contexts, they appear to have been added to the rock art later, suggesting by superimposition. In 2007, more rock art sites with Sabaean and Himyarite writings in and around Hargeysa region were found, but sadly some were bulldozed by developers, as the Ministry of Tourism could not buy the land or stop the destruction. I have also recorded a burial site with such writings in Shalcaw (39), on the Red Sea coast (see Fig. 4). Furthermore, the Qar-Gebi megalithic burials include what might be ancient writings, perhaps Himyarite and Sabaean, but it needs to be confirmed. The Pre-Aksumite cultures of current-day Ethiopia are linked with South Arabian kingdoms. The Pre-Aksumite Empire itself might have been part of, or at least culturally linked with, contemporary kingdoms in what is now the Somali-populated region. Not only are there links through the findings of Himyarite and Sabaean writings, but also early Christianity seems to have spread throughout the Horn, including the Somali region, as explored below. However, the burial site of Shal’aw is associated with other ancient burials in the immediate wadis in this sandy coastal landscape. The “wadi burials” are part of an ancient landscape that has been washed away by the floods and now exposed vertically, showing clear stratigraphic levels. If these burials can be rescued in time, there is a potential that we learn more about first-millennium BCE cultures of this little known Red Sea region, and associations with the Himyarite and Sabaean cultures, as well as perhaps ancient Egypt and the trade in frankincense and myrrh, still a big part of the economy in this area."

Ximan decorated stelae, Toghdheer

There are a few others she talks about with crosses on them, most likely axum influence

 

[horumar]

I wouldn't know

Oh i almost forgot!!

It could be

ybhd??

This is because musnad can be written both ways, so in somali latin we would write that as Yabaxad? Similar to Ya baxay? but why would someone write that? must be sabaean or himyaritic or just old somali we don't understand.

 

[Malikfiqi]

What happened to Leelkase?

Lol got out bred by Harti

 

[ሕጊ።።]

I found one of the pictures she took:

I can read south arabian, the last 2 look like h(somali X) and the last one looks like d

i think they are turned around and it starts with the d and then x and then b and then y
dxby????
daxby?

maybe that's an old somali word???

If it's upside down, it should be the other way around, reading: qbxd, as Sabaean was written right to left. First letter should be q, if you zoom in a bit more.

 

[horumar]

If it's upside down, it should be the other way around, reading: qbxd, as Sabaean was written right to left. First letter should be q, if you zoom in a bit more.

That's a Q, not a Y! Thanks for that! the shadow of the other rock seems to be hiding it.

Also, Wasn't musnad written both ways?

But if that's the case, qbxd doesn't seem Somali

Is that a word familiar to you? if not, then it could be old Somali