How significant were Somali Kingdoms/Sultanates?

[RedStar]

Here's for Mog:

https://xaqdoon.wordpress.com/2009/08/29/yaquub-sultanate/

"Cerulli has recorded traditional narrative of how the Darandole conquered Mogadishu against the Muzaffar dynasty:

“In ancient times the Sirasi lived in Mogadiscio. The people called Halawani succeeded the Sirasi. The Mudaffar succeeded the Halawani. The Mudaffar came from the country of Yemen in Arabia. He had guns. He built the palace that is found under the Governor’s house. He was a friend of the Aguran. At that time the Mudaffar governed the coast; and the Aguran ruled in the woodland.

“Later the Mudaffar had an interpreter who was called ‘Ismankäy Haggi ‘Ali. This ‘Ismankäy had the idea of letting the Darandollä enter the city. A message was sent to the imam Mahmud ‘Umar, who lived at Golol. The imam, guiding his warriors, came south and approached Mogadiscio. Then what did ‘Ismankäy do? He spoke with the Mudaffar: ‘By now the Darandollä are near Mogadiscio, let me be accompanied by some soldiers, and I shall go to them.’ ‘How do you want to do it?’ ‘I shall do it this way. I shall come to an agreement with the leaders and make them return to the places in the north.’ ‘So be it!’ said the Mudaffar. Then ‘Ismänkäy took some soldiers with him, but without weapons: ‘Leave your weapons! We go out to conclude an agreement, not really for war.’ They put down the weapons. They went into the woodland. When they had gone into the woodland, the Darandollä came out and took all the soldiers prisoner. Then they continued the raid and entered Mogadiscio. The Mudaffar was caputred and they wanted to kill him. But he, looking at the people who had come close to him, saw among them ‘Ismankäy Haggi Ali. ‘Stop!’ he said then. ‘Before you kill me, I want to speak. O ‘Ismankäy, you are good for nothing, you are capable of nothing, you will not pass seven!’ he said. Thus was 248 ‘Ismankäy cursed. When the Mudaffar was killed, when seven days passed after his death, ‘Ismankäy died too. It happened exactly as he had been cursed.”

The Darandoolle have conquered Mogadishu city and killed the Muzzaffar governor sometime between 1590 and 1625. The approximate dates appear to be corroborated by a Portuguese document dated 1624 .

After the Darandoolle Mudulood took control of the Mogadishu city in 1624, they quarrelled with the Ajuraan on the interior.

‘After entering Muqdisho, the Darandoolle quarrelled with the Ajuraan. They quarrelled over watering rights. The Ajuraan had decreed: ‘At the wells in our territory, the people known as Darandoolle and the other Hiraab cannot water their herds by day, but only at night’’…Then all the Darandoolle gathered in one place. The leaders decided to make war on the Ajuraan. They found the imam of the Ajuraan seated on a rock near a well called Ceel Cawl. They killed him with a sword. As they struck him with the sword, they split his body together with the rock on which he was seated. He died immediately and the Ajuraan migrated out of the country.’"


Relative to Adal:

https://books.google.com/books?id=YP6vaIuPz60C&pg=PA122&lpg=PA122&dq=Adal+was+an+Afar+state?&source=bl&ots=LC_TTpQZkD&sig=hkC5-nskJmYuwa7Ucj6meorRFRU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiKqvHMg8DZAhUQxmMKHbfxC4sQ6AEIdjAN#v=onepage&q=Adal was an Afar state?&f=false

Have you taken Cerulli's account of who ruled Mogadishu because it correlates with your bias? Why have you ignored I. M. Lewis, Yaqut Al Hamawi, John D Fage et al who all wrote that the Ajuraan ruled the city as early as the 12th Century.

 

[Grant]

Have you taken Cerulli's account of who ruled Mogadishu because it correlates with your bias? Why have you ignored I. M. Lewis, Yaqut Al Hamawi, John D Fage et al who all wrote that the Ajuraan ruled the city as early as the 12th Century.

You're thinking of Merka.

 

[James Dahl]

Have you taken Cerulli's account of who ruled Mogadishu because it correlates with your bias? Why have you ignored I. M. Lewis, Yaqut Al Hamawi, John D Fage et al who all wrote that the Ajuraan ruled the city as early as the 12th Century.

Ehhh.... The Ajuuraan dynasty doesn't even begin until about 1400 with the first Ajuuraan king, Dayle Gareen.

Mogadishu was a merchant republic until about 1250, then a sultanate until about 1400 when the Ajuuraan took over. Mogadishu was conquered by the Portuguese for about a century until the Ottomans and Arabs kicked the Portuguese out and Muzaffar became sultan of Mogadishu, but he only ruled for a few decades before the Hiraab took over Mogadishu and ruled for about 200 years until the Omanis invaded and took the place over, and then sold it to the Italians.

 

[RedStar]

Ehhh.... The Ajuuraan dynasty doesn't even begin until about 1400 with the first Ajuuraan king, Dayle Gareen.

Mogadishu was a merchant republic until about 1250, then a sultanate until about 1400 when the Ajuuraan took over. Mogadishu was conquered by the Portuguese for about a century until the Ottomans and Arabs kicked the Portuguese out and Muzaffar became sultan of Mogadishu, but he only ruled for a few decades before the Hiraab took over Mogadishu and ruled for about 200 years until the Omanis invaded and took the place over, and then sold it to the Italians.

Mogadishu was conquered by the Portuguese? I'm sure it was Barawa and Marka they sacked.

 

[James Dahl]

Mogadishu was conquered by the Portuguese? I'm sure it was Barawa and Marka they sacked.

Yeah they took it in 1518 under Tristão de Cunha. You'll note that historians don't say that the Portuguese didn't capture Mogadishu but that they "couldn't hold it". The battle to capture Mogadishu was a huge battle and de Cunha's soldiers nearly mutinied when he ordered them to attack, and the difficultly of the battle persuaded the Portuguese to stop at Mogadishu and not try and conquer the rest of Ajuuraan territory. Portuguese and Spanish military technology was far advanced and the Ajuuraan could not really resist them at the time, but Ajuuraan was strong enough at the time to make it not worthwhile. The Tercio military formation in this time was effectively invincible and could not be defeated except against overwhelming odds.

In 1586 Mir Ali Beg's fleet of Turkish and allied Arab ships defeated the Portuguese and liberated many areas of the Indian Ocean and Mogadishu came to be ruled by a Yemeni, Mohammed Muzaffar.

The reason why people remember Baraawe but not Mogadishu is because Baraawe was under Portuguese occupation earlier and for much longer, they were only driven out of Baraawe in 1758.

The Portuguese built a fort in Mogadishu on the north side, which was demolished many centuries ago.

 

[RedStar]

Yeah they took it in 1518 under Tristão de Cunha. You'll note that historians don't say that the Portuguese didn't capture Mogadishu but that they "couldn't hold it". The battle to capture Mogadishu was a huge battle and de Cunha's soldiers nearly mutinied when he ordered them to attack, and the difficultly of the battle persuaded the Portuguese to stop at Mogadishu and not try and conquer the rest of Ajuuraan territory. Portuguese and Spanish military technology was far advanced and the Ajuuraan could not really resist them at the time, but Ajuuraan was strong enough at the time to make it not worthwhile. The Tercio military formation in this time was effectively invincible and could not be defeated except against overwhelming odds.

In 1586 Mir Ali Beg's fleet of Turkish and allied Arab ships defeated the Portuguese and liberated many areas of the Indian Ocean and Mogadishu came to be ruled by a Yemeni, Mohammed Muzaffar.

The reason why people remember Baraawe but not Mogadishu is because Baraawe was under Portuguese occupation earlier and for much longer, they were only driven out of Baraawe in 1758.

The Portuguese built a fort in Mogadishu on the north side, which was demolished many centuries ago.

Interesting. I'd like to know where I can read this. Which books/ebooks do you recommend?

 

[Xaagi-Cagmadigtee]

Here's for Mog:Q6AEIdjAN#v=onepage&q=Adal was an Afar state?&f=false

So a white guy said thus we have to take their word for it, is that so @Grant ? How did Somalis become a 'junior' partner in the Abyssinian-Adal Wars? Somalis were mentioned many times over. Afars are not monolithic, which Afar clans were mentioned? I have noticed that you downplay, even belittle, Somali achievements throughout history. Same goes for this @James Dahl guy who, astonishingly, didn't know Gurgura Dir role with respect to Adal Empire.

 

[Sultan]

Were any of the Afar Tribes mentioned in the earliest historical documents such futuhul Habash?

Do you have any written evidence that shows Adal was based on the Afar ?

Have you read the book by the name :The conquest of Abbysinia ? If you have read then ,who made the bulk of Adal warriors ? Weren't the Somali and the Harla dominant force of Adal?

Is the Afar mentioned anywhere in the Futuh Habasha or the ancient Harla tribes are the present day Afars?

 

[Grant]

Were any of the Afar Tribes mentioned in the earliest historical documents such futuhul Habash?

Do you have any written evidence that shows Adal was based on the Afar ?

Have you read the book by the name :The conquest of Abbysinia ? If you have read then ,who made the bulk of Adal warriors ? Weren't the Somali and the Harla dominant force of Adal?

Is the Afar mentioned anywhere in the Futuh Habasha or the ancient Harla tribes are the present day Afars?

Sultan,

The Harla are likely related to the Harari, who are Ethio-Semitic. You could have read more from the previous link, but here is this:

https://books.google.com/books?id=j...6AEIjQEwCQ#v=onepage&q=Afar/Saho/Adal&f=false

 

[Grant]

So a white guy said thus we have to take their word for it, is that so @Grant ? How did Somalis become a 'junior' partner in the Abyssinian-Adal Wars? Somalis were mentioned many times over. Afars are not monolithic, which Afar clans were mentioned? I have noticed that you downplay, even belittle, Somali achievements throughout history. Same goes for this @James Dahl guy who, astonishingly, didn't know Gurgura Dir role with respect to Adal Empire.

Do you still claim Isaaq and Darood were Arabs, or have you gotten with the DNA revolution? The same history that James and I read is there for you.

 

[Sultan]

Sultan,

The Harla are likely related to the Harari, who are Ethio-Semitic. You could have read more from the previous link, but here is this:

https://books.google.com/books?id=jwjX_yVT7AoC&pg=PA171&lpg=PA171&dq=Afar/Saho/Adal&source=bl&ots=Qf7C24jx-C&sig=rjqDgnvgt74CT2E0TBq-TLKAutQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjfyqvWp9DZAhUpllQKHZiOAeoQ6AEIjQEwCQ#v=onepage&q=Afar/Saho/Adal&f=false

I repeat again. Has Mr Grant read the entire book of Futuh by himself?Quoting a more recent source won't make the Afars the dominant force or the leaders of Adal.There is no Afar mentioned in early the earliest Arabic account on Adal History called the Futuh Habasha.Why many Somali and Harla clans were mentioned throughout the book of Futuh yet no Afar is mentioned?

Now,my question for you is :Did you meekly accept everything written or you place it under scrutiny ? Why do you ignore the older Arabic accounts that explicitly discuss the Adal history?????

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[Grant]

I repeat again. Has Mr Grant read the entire book of Futuh by himself?Quoting a more recent source won't make the Afars the dominant force or the leaders of Adal.There is no Afar mentioned in early the earliest Arabic account on Adal History called the Futuh Habasha.Why many Somali and Harla clans were mentioned throughout the book of Futuh yet no Afar is mentioned?

Now,my question for you is :Did you meekly accept everything written or you place it under scrutiny ? Why do you ignore the older Arabic accounts that explicitly discuss the Adal history?????

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Sultan,

There are more sources for the Adal wars than just the Futuh, which has it's own perspective.

Adal was a multi-ethnic Islamic state formed on the ruins of Ifat, which extended further north. After Gurey was defeated, the Adalites withdrew to Harar, then divided between Harar and Aussa..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imamate_of_Aussa

"1 Imām Maḥamed "Jāsa" Ibrahim 1577 - 1583 A relative of Imām Aḥmed Gurēy, he moved the capital to Awsa and appointed his brother (also named Maḥamed) to be Wazir of Harar. He was killed in battle with the Warra Daya in 1583."

"In 1647, the rulers of the Emirate of Harar broke away to form their own polity. The Imamate of Awsa was later destroyed by the local Mudaito Afar in 1672. Following the Awsa Imamate's demise, the Mudaito Afars founded their own kingdom, the Sultanate of Aussa."

The rear view of all this is that Aussa became Afar, Harar became Harari and Zayla/Berbera became Somali. The multi-ethnic state broke into it's component parts, likely representing their relative strengths at the time.

 

[Sultan]

Sultan,

There are more sources for the Adal wars than just the Futuh, which has it's own perspective.

Adal was a multi-ethnic Islamic state formed on the ruins of Ifat, which extended further north. After Gurey was defeated, the Adalites withdrew to Harar, then divided between Harar and Aussa..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imamate_of_Aussa

"1 Imām Maḥamed "Jāsa" Ibrahim 1577 - 1583 A relative of Imām Aḥmed Gurēy, he moved the capital to Awsa and appointed his brother (also named Maḥamed) to be Wazir of Harar. He was killed in battle with the Warra Daya in 1583."

"In 1647, the rulers of the Emirate of Harar broke away to form their own polity. The Imamate of Awsa was later destroyed by the local Mudaito Afar in 1672. Following the Awsa Imamate's demise, the Mudaito Afars founded their own kingdom, the Sultanate of Aussa."

The rear view of all this is that Aussa became Afar, Harar became Harari and Zayla/Berbera became Somali. The multi-ethnic state broke into it's component parts, likely representing their relative strengths at the time.

Somali and Harla clans were the backbone of Adal however, other Muslim groups might took part in Adal holy wars.A lot of Somali clans were mentioned in Futuh(which is perhaps the earliest account of Adal history);Some lived in around Harar while others came from Maydh in Sanaag.Furthermore ,the imam had close kinship ties with several Gerads who hailed from the powerful Somali clans such as Geri Koombe and Marehan .

You're someone l look up to when it comes to history but apparently there is something fishy about your narrative perspective of Somali history.

Please answer these questions one at a time.

1.was the name Afar or Danakil even mentioned in the Futuh? If not ,what about certain section of the Afar or even any important personality in Adal history. You may share with us links to your sources

2.What are some of the other early historical Arabic books that discuss Adal history besides Futuhul Habasha.Any available PDF books ?


3.Can you read Arabic ? Are u Somali?and who was Ahmed Gurey according to you.

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[Grant]

Somali and Harla clans were the backbone of Adal however, other Muslim groups might took part in Adal holy wars.A lot of Somali clans were mentioned in Futuh(which is perhaps the earliest account of Adal history);Some lived in around Harar while others came from Maydh in Sanaag.Furthermore ,the imam had close kinship ties with several Gerads who hailed from the powerful Somali clans such as Geri Koombe and Marehan .

You're someone l look up to when it comes to history but apparently there is something fishy about your narrative perspective of Somali history.

Please answer these questions one at a time.

1.was the name Afar or Danakil even mentioned in the Futuh? If not ,what about certain section of the Afar or even any important personality in Adal history. You may share with us links to your sources

2.What are some of the other early historical Arabic books that discuss Adal history besides Futuhul Habasha.Any available PDF books ?


3.Can you read Arabic ? Are u Somali?and who was Ahmed Gurey according to you.

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Why bother? You clearly have all the answers and aren't into reading what I have to bring.

 

[Sultan]

OK l see

Why bother? You clearly have all the answers and aren't into reading what I have to bring.

I want you to prove that Afar actually have a place in Adal history. Bring any historical evidence like the Futuh Habasha .If you don't have anything to offer as a citation then just shut up and stop belittling Somali history every now and then.

 

[James Dahl]

I'm pretty sure the Dankali were enemies of Adal. The southern Afar territories were conquered from Adal in the 16th and 17th centuries.

 

[Sultan]

I'm pretty sure the Dankali were enemies of Adal. The southern Afar territories were conquered from Adal in the 16th and 17th centuries.

Are you saying Afar were enemies to Adal?

I'm pretty sure Adal was predominantly Somali

 

[James Dahl]

Somali as an identity probably didn't really exist back then though, people identified as their clan or tribe

 

[Grant]

Are you saying Afar were enemies to Adal?

I'm pretty sure Adal was predominantly Somali

The Dankali took the southern Afar lands. The Afars were part of Awdal, pushed out by Somalis beginning in the 1700s, well after Gurey's time.

https://books.google.com/books?id=3...INTAB#v=onepage&q=the Afar and Zayla?&f=false

 

[James Dahl]

The "southern Afar" were not Afar at the time though, the whole split in Afar society between the Asaimara and Adoimara is from the conquest of the southern lands. The Asaimara are predominantly Dankali and are the original Afar, and the Adoimara are the conquered people who are subject to the Asaimara. Most Asaimara live in the north and most Adoimara live in the south.