Human evolution

[MI]

Most muslims and scholars reject the theory evolution.

I think it’s because most of them, no offense meant to the great scholars, are rather scientifically illiterate and they perceive and rightly so that there’s a strain of scientism that attacks and threatens religion and leads people to disbelief. So they think they must deflect all its blows and be on the defensive.

Science itself makes no grand claims about religion, it has no agenda. Scientists do. Science is a method whereby one can achieve knowledge in a certain subject and is entirely limited to the physical realm, metaphysics on the other hand, has very little to do with science. I believe however that science can further and deepen ones understanding of religion once you realize that science makes monopoly on Truth and is itself is subject to change, it is not a contradictory claim.

This is a serious reach

It makes perfect sense to me but I understand that it might not to you.

 

[Ken Kaneki]

I think it’s because most of them, no offense meant to the great scholars, are rather scientifically illiterate and they perceive and rightly so that there’s a strain of scientism that attacks and threatens religion. So they think they must deflect all its blows and be on the defensive.

Science itself makes no grand claims about religion, it has no agenda. Scientists do. Science is a method whereby one can achieve knowledge in a certain subject and is entirely limited to the physical realm, metaphysics on the under hand, has very little to do with science. I believe however that science can further and deepen ones understanding of religion once you realize that science makes monopoly on Truth and is itself is subject to change, it is not a contradictory claim.



It makes perfect sense to me but I understand that it might not to you.

Were Adam and Eve Homo Sapiens then?

 

[911]

Who were the first homo sapiens?
Who are the purest humans?

 

[MI]

Were Adam and Eve Homo Sapiens then?

Yes, Adam and Eve were the first Homo sapiens in fact.

 

[911]

Why did humans stop evolving?

 

[MI]

Why did humans stop evolving?

Yeah, I wonder why myself...

 

[World]

FWIW the continuation of this Sura is also very crucial to my understanding of Evolution as well, it continues

“And you have already known the first creation, so will you not remember? And have you seen that [seed] which you sow? Is it you who makes it grow, or are We the grower? If We willed, We could make it [dry] debris, and you would remain in wonder”

Sūrat al-Wāqiʻah 56:62–65

LUCA, the common ancestor of all life on earth was likely a single celled organism, and the “seed” here is obviously referring to reproduction, and what does male and female “seed” combined form? A single celled organism not much unlike the first life, the first creation. Inside our mothers womb we go through our stages of evolution sped up; first beginning as a single cell, then multi-cellular life, then something that looks like a fish, then something that looks like an amphibian, then we go through our mammalian stages until we finally arrive at something that looks like a baby. That alone would be good proof of evolution, and there’s so much more.
View attachment 75319

Farmers will till the land by loosening the soil and mixing in fertilizers, which are nutrient rich. Then, they throw seeds onto the soil.

That’s what the quran is probably referring to in regards to seeds, the process is called sowing.

 

[MI]

Farmers will till the land by loosening the soil and mixing in fertilizers, which are nutrient rich. Then, they throw seeds onto the soil.

That’s what the quran is probably referring to in regards to seeds, the process is called sowing.

I know that’s what the Tafsir says, and I am familiar with the process of sowing, but if you look the immediately preceding Ayats in the same Sura, namely 56:57–59 it says as follows

“We have created you, then why would you not confirm it? Did you ever consider the sperm that you emit? Do you create a child out of it, or are We its creators?“

I believe here Allah is asking us to contemplate the question then gives the answer in the next Ayah, albeit cryptically. “Maniyy” or “Nutfa” the nouns in Arabic for seed for example, can mean both pertaining to plant seeds and sperm.

 

[Timo Jareer and proud]

Is it impossible to believe in evolution but also be religious? I'm Sunni Muslim (a part time Salafi) and even I believe in evolution. It's as obvious as the colour of a person's skin.

 

[Timo Jareer and proud]

Why did humans stop evolving?

We are stilling evolving. Blond hair in the El Molo tribe of Tanzania is a example of evolving. Evolution is just adapting better to one's environment.

 

[VixR]

We looked seriously unbearably ugly up until the last 3 secs lol. Evolution finally veered towards the superficial so I could look myself in the mirror and not scream.

 

[MI]

Is it impossible to believe in evolution but also be religious? I'm Sunni Muslim (a part time Salafi) and even I believe in evolution. It's as obvious as the colour of a person's skin.

It’s possible, yes. Though some say it isn’t and I encourage you to find your own answers through both external and internal means. Ultimately it’s up to Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala where you land. What’s central to Muslim belief is that Allah created us and belief in the Quranic narrative. I recommend you look up some of Yasir Qadhis speeches and writings on the subject, I personally disagree with him on some fronts and agree on others but he offers an interesting perspective. Also, I enjoy watching Daniel Haqiqatjou’s videos generally, very intelligent man. Here’s one of his on the subject:

I think if you believe that Allahs Will is what decides the laws of our reality, and is the ultimate sustainer and creator of these Laws, that is the most important thing.

We looked seriously unbearably ugly up until the last 3 secs lol. Evolution finally veered towards the superficial so I could look myself in the mirror and not scream.

No guarantee that any of those earlier hominins are ancestral of Sapiens. So we don’t quite rightly know what Pre-Sapiens “humans” looked like. But I think if we look at Sapiens before we became gracilized there was a certain wild charm that could be appreciated.

It’s similar to the difference of a neotenic dog skull and a mature wolf skull and personally I find wolves strike a much nobler figure than that of the domesticated dog.

 

[Yasssmin.x]

And this is why I reject evolution. I didnt come from no fucking monkey
Might as well join the Earth is flat society since ppl will see me as retarded

 

[Sakandari]

 

[EDsomali]

Horta, this isn't even human evolution.


This is a neanderthal.

 

[VixR]

It’s possible, yes. Though some say it isn’t and I encourage you to find your own answers through both external and internal means. Ultimately it’s up to Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala where you land. What’s central to Muslim belief is that Allah created us and belief in the Quranic narrative. I recommend you look up some of Yasir Qadhis speeches and writings on the subject, I personally disagree with him on some fronts and agree on others but he offers an interesting perspective. Also, I enjoy watching Daniel Haqiqatjou’s videos generally, very intelligent man. Here’s one of his on the subject:

I think if you believe that Allahs Will is what decides the laws of our reality, and is the ultimate sustainer and creator of these Laws, that is the most important thing.



No guarantee that any of those earlier hominins are ancestral of Sapiens. So we don’t quite rightly know what Pre-Sapiens “humans” looked like. But I think if we look at Sapiens before we became gracilized there was a certain wild charm that could be appreciated.

It’s similar to the difference of a neotenic dog skull and a mature wolf skull and personally I find wolves strike a much nobler figure than that of the domesticated dog.
View attachment 75325

I would agree with you on wolves striking a more majestic figure than the domesticated dog, but you lost me on prehistoric humans and their contemporaries being charming lol. For me, the awe is in the evolution itself. Take chimps, with whom we share a common ancestor, they’re interesting, but they’re not necessarily majestic imo. They’re fairly ugly and their behavior is rowdy and undignified. The most intriguing thing about them is how they’ve been demonstrated to be much smarter than most other animals..

 

[The alchemist]

I would agree with you on wolves striking a more majestic figure than the domesticated dog, but you lost me on prehistoric humans and their contemporaries being charming lol. For me, the awe is in the evolution itself. Take chimps, with whom we share a common ancestor, they’re interesting, but they’re not necessarily majestic imo. They’re fairly ugly and their behavior is rowdy and undignified. The most intriguing thing about them is how they’ve been demonstrated to be much smarter than most other animals..

The contemporary superficial sense of beauty you are accustomed to is nothing but social constructional conditioning. There's no objective beauty, and concept like "undignified" is unique to us. You might have looked ugly in the eyes of a homo Erectus or Heidelbergensis.

 

[Mehmet]

Lol finally a good use for this

 

[VixR]

The contemporary superficial sense of beauty you are accustomed to is nothing but social constructional conditioning. There's no objective beauty, and concept like "undignified" is unique to us. You might have looked ugly in the eyes of a homo Erectus or Heidelbergensis.

The feeling would be mutual, my friend, if I were to see Erectus or Denosivan or any of them before me now.

 

[MI]

I would agree with you on wolves striking a more majestic figure than the domesticated dog, but you lost me on prehistoric humans and their contemporaries being charming lol. For me, the awe is in the evolution itself. Take chimps, with whom we share a common ancestor, they’re interesting, but they’re not necessarily majestic imo. They’re fairly ugly and their behavior is rowdy and undignified. The most intriguing thing about them is how they’ve been demonstrated to be much smarter than most other animals..

warning: rant ahead
I think chimps are a bad example, as much as the widely cited but wildly inaccurate “99% the same” statistic of our relation to chimps is loudly touted they bear very little resemblance to humans. But back to prehistoric mankind, I don’t think they’re ugly at all, if anything I think we’ve become increasingly dysgenic with our increasing sociality & shift in food sources. You should look up the Russian fox experiments and see what I mean exactly. They took beautiful Red Foxes and selectively bred them for the purpose of domestication. This experiment all but confirmed the existence of the so-called “domestication syndrome” which describes a series of phenotypic changes associated with domestication. The same happened to humans as we auto domesticated for less aggressive, less mature and less territorial humans under the span the past several thousand years. Prison/executions is a good example of how we’re still doing that. The pace was picked up by sessile agriculture, animal domestication and now industrial society. The end result of the experiment resulted in foxes that behaved like dogs, became smaller, their coat changed color, their brain became smaller, they became more social and less aggressive and so on. All of this came from breeding only for one trait—tameness. Personally, I think this fox is objectively uglier.

Think of dogs as juvenile wolves that never escape their immature state. Wolves as pups are playful, attentive, obedient and basically have all the traits we associate with mature dogs. But as they grow up they shed all these traits that are actually meant for learning survival skills from the parent and become mature wolves. This maturity entails a physical but also a mental change as to better survive in the wild. The early human skull from South Africa that I posted earlier for example had a brain capacity a fifth or fourth greater than humans today which is a trait almost all early human skulls share such as Jebel Irhoud, Herto man, Florisbad and Skhul/Qafzeh etc. A prominent change in domestication syndrome is a reduction is brain size, among other things.

You might think this trajectory is a good one if it brought us modern society, which in a way it has, but I don’t believe it to be necessary for high civilization... but that’s another conversation. Try to look ahead into the future, since we are noticing this trend speed up tremendously in recent years; that men have almost half the testosterone compared to two generations ago, generalized decreasing bone mass, fluid IQ is going down, et cetera.

Meanwhile women are subtly being selected for juvenile neotenous traits due to human over socialization, which by the way, tangentially is likely where the whole shaving thing comes from subconsciously. I recommend you read this entire Wikipedia article for more about this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoteny_in_humans#Physical_attractiveness

The future of the human race as it stands now is a big eyed alien-looking scrawny mass of consumer slaves probably ruled by or dominated by an upper class that retained our more archaic traits. Men are becoming increasingly feminized while women are becoming more juvenilized and more feminized. Women are reaching menarche faster than ever while men are becoming increasingly less sexually dimorphic.

Our “primitive” ancestors had a GPS of their territory in their brains, had stronger and bigger skeletons & skeletal muscle, had a compendium of edible plants and species stored in their heads, wrestled animals twice their size for food and so on. As a group we know more about our world today, and from a materialistic perspective live “better” lives but as individuals we are worse measured up against the ancients.

It is getting to the point where we are so reliant on others that we won’t be physically or mentally capable of surviving in wild without civilization. What’s terrifying then is the knowledge that civilization has a end-date, a point where if we don’t reach the stars and beyond, we exhaust Earth of the things we need to prolong our societies or else find ourselves in something that we would not call civilization. Things like rare earth metals and crude oil and probably a million other things we are surely depleting.

In wanting to make things easier and better we have become worse off. Your body sheds what it doesn’t need; every normative comfort a future sacrifice. These are the intellectual reasons I find prehistoric humans more of a marvel, but weirdly enough, instinctively from just looking at their skulls I think them our betters.