Illustrative DNA

[Juke]

okay
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can you explain this and why are we using meheri yemeni and wtf is eth_mota

Basically this run you just did was a more a more refined version of the wheel chart they did for your stone age HG and farmer ancestry.

The ancient Egyptian you were getting was most likely just Arabian ancestry since they're both very similar.

Mota is the east african hunter-gatherer in your wheel chart, the thing is illustrative DNA only uses that as a proxy for your sub-Saharan ancestry but there's also a proto-Nilotic component. But they leave that out because there's no ancient sample to use. So we use Dinka as a close enough proxy to represent that.

For a better visualization of the time periods using a Cushitic reference do another RUN with this source

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[Mooslover]

Basically this run you just did was a more a more refined version of the wheel chart they did for your stone age HG and farmer ancestry.

The ancient Egyptian you were getting was most likely just Arabian ancestry since they're both very similar.

Mota is the east african hunter-gatherer in your wheel chart, the thing is illustrative DNA only uses that as a proxy for your sub-Saharan ancestry but there's also a proto-Nilotic component. But they leave that out because there's no ancient sample to use. So we use Dinka as a close enough proxy to represent that.

For a better visualization of the time periods using a Cushitic reference do another RUN with this source

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whats the difference between scaled and normal one?

 

[Juke]

whats the difference between scaled and normal one?

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[Arabsiyawi]

my runs

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[Dima&Damo]

Where are the proto nilotes people rave about

 

[The alchemist]

First download your coordinates from illustrativedna

Then use this tool https://vahaduo.github.io/vahaduo/ to do your manual analysis

Click on the target tab, copy and paste your scaled coordinates in that section

In the source tab copy and paste these:

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Then go to the 'single' or 'multi' tabs and click RUN, tell us what you get.

You should replace this coordinate with Dinka. Got less of that WA-like stuff:

Sudanese:SUDANESE7,-0.571392,0.046714,-0.007165,-0.007429,-0.005232,-0.002789,-0.00799,0.018922,0.0904,-0.108977,-0.018512,0.020831,-0.047125,0.000688,0.013165,-0.023734,0.021644,-0.012035,0.026145,-0.023261,-0.000998,0.004822,-0.000986,-0.001687,0.003712

 

[The alchemist]

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The other one ain't that qashin. It's unscaled. If you use the non-scaled source base, then it will provide decent results. Things get weird if you use unscaled coordinates modeled with scaled source samples, and vice versa.

 

[Juke]

You should replace this coordinate with Dinka. Got less of that WA-like stuff:

Sudanese:SUDANESE7,-0.571392,0.046714,-0.007165,-0.007429,-0.005232,-0.002789,-0.00799,0.018922,0.0904,-0.108977,-0.018512,0.020831,-0.047125,0.000688,0.013165,-0.023734,0.021644,-0.012035,0.026145,-0.023261,-0.000998,0.004822,-0.000986,-0.001687,0.003712

For my reference is that an outlier Dinka with low WA?

The other one ain't that qashin. It's unscaled. If you use the non-scaled source base, then it will provide decent results. Things get weird if you use unscaled coordinates modeled with scaled source samples, and vice versa.

I dunno about that man. Unscaled coordinates are wonky, look at the top 3 (scaled) vs bottom 3 (unscaled) distances b/w WE, EE and SSA. Unscaled coords think east eurasian is almost equidistant with west eurasian and sub-saharan, Unscaled coords think west eurasian is closer to sub-saharan than east eurasian, etc. Maybe if we're comparing very close populations it'd make sense but when we're combining SSA and WE components it's probably best we use scaled numbers.

 

[The alchemist]

For my reference is that an outlier Dinka with low WA?

I dunno about that man. Unscaled coordinates are wonky, look at the top 3 (scaled) vs bottom 3 (unscaled) distances b/w WE, EE and SSA. Unscaled coords think east eurasian is almost equidistant with west eurasian and sub-saharan, Unscaled coords think west eurasian is closer to sub-saharan than east eurasian, etc. Maybe if we're comparing very close populations it'd make sense but when we're combining SSA and WE components it's probably best we use scaled numbers.

The sample is Nilo-Saharan and got less of that WA-like ancestry. I don't know if it is Dinka and it is not an outlier, part of the diversity with just a minor reduction in the WA/central basal stuff. I have two other Nuba samples with similar proportions but they are slightly Eurasian-shifted, which can slightly overrepresent.

G25 has limitations and strengths. But that does not mean the coords are that wrong. It depends on what you use unscaled for, and the interpretation might mean something you on face value think is wonky but might indirectly indicate some real shit. I don't think they are supposed to be 1:1 consistent with the scaled. The question is, are the strange readings unscaled give you noise or deep affinity? Right.

I've heard they use unscaled PCAs in studies. There is a reason we get unscaled coordinates. If they were useless all along then what need for it would it be if they mislead and cause errors? I think they paint other dimensions. Most of these things, after a certain skill level, become iterative and they can give you new layers of insights.

I rarely use unscaled but I think it has its place. Principled data is not where all value comes from. Sometimes you need the wild card, grovel in the dirt to find the gem.

We also have to recognize that "drift" is fucking weird. I don't take those numbers in the distances in distinct groups to be properly indicative of measurements. All you need to know is if the internal system is consistent and if that can provide something. If it is not consistent maybe that is an interesting question to solve.

For example, the new Dzudzuana sample was put out not long ago. You can't really get an accurate representation of its composites using G25. You first need other statistical tools that can measure better and maybe even see how accurate G25 is on that shit. We're dealing with strange things when measuring depth. The error goes up and the interpretation becomes wider. And this goes for scaled and unscaled.

 

[Moholin01]

I Bought this cause I wanted to see ancient admixture

Also WE WUZ KANGZ AND SHIEET

Here’s mine

 

[Mooslover]

Here’s mine

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Why is my North African higher than avg ?

 

[Moholin01]

Why is my North African higher than avg ?

Because I’ve got higher Natufian and Iranian than you. It balances out though since we have same level of ancient North East African (Nilotic).

 

[NidarNidar]

Here’s mine

View attachment 273796

Because I’ve got higher Natufian and Iranian than you. It balances out though since we have same level of ancient North East African (Nilotic).

wouldn't it be more omotic? somewhat resembling ARI peoples, natufians and iberomaurusian had somewhat mota ancestor somewhere between 5-15%.


here mine.

 

[nee4speed111]

My illustrativeDNA results

 

[Juke]

My illustrativeDNA results

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Are you a E-v32 Egyptian?

 

[nee4speed111]

Are you a E-v32 Egyptian?

E-L29 on 23andme

 

[The alchemist]

E-L29 on 23andme

Any upcoming studies? Egypt needs regional uniparental and autosomal coverage. It would be valuable since the population is so large, barring any recent external admixture, internal compositional space and relational arrangement alone could be a place worth exploring and their indirect implications for the greater antiquity of the broader region.

 

[nee4speed111]

Any upcoming studies? Egypt needs regional uniparental and autosomal coverage. It would be valuable since the population is so large, barring any recent external admixture, internal compositional space and relational arrangement alone could be a place worth exploring and their indirect implications for the greater antiquity of the broader region.

There are at least 3 upcoming studies with Ancient Egyptian genomes I am aware of, some of which include data from Old Kingdom Egyptians from Middle/Upper Egypt. In terms of studies of modern Egyptians, I haven't heard of any coming up, but I have seen many Egyptian genomes now on G25 from various regions of Egypt, both Coptic & Muslim.

 

[The alchemist]

There are at least 3 upcoming studies with Ancient Egyptian genomes I am aware of, some of which include data from Old Kingdom Egyptians from Middle/Upper Egypt. In terms of studies of modern Egyptians, I haven't heard of any coming up, but I have seen many Egyptian genomes now on G25 from various regions of Egypt, both Coptic & Muslim.

Is it me or are studies prolonging the publishing of studies in the last couple of years? Could be the latent effect of Covid. Still, one would think there would be an upswing in productivity as the easing of restrictions was put in place.

Yeah, I know there are individual samples and those are useful but those are pretty non-robust and can't provide a fine-tuned gradient picture of regional composition when it comes to subtle shades of differences and divergent ranges.

 

[nee4speed111]

Is it me or are studies prolonging the publishing of studies in the last couple of years? Could be the latent effect of Covid. Still, one would think there would be an upswing in productivity as the easing of restrictions was put in place.

Yeah, I know there are individual samples and those are useful but those are pretty non-robust and can't provide a fine-tuned gradient picture of regional composition when it comes to subtle shades of differences and divergent ranges.

One of the studies has a release date before the end of this year, I believe the one with Old Kingdom DNA has a 2025 release date, but the leaks on what the genomes look like have been out for a while so I don't expect any surprises.

I think regional variation is often exaggerated in the Egyptian context tbh, beyond obvious outliers the broad ancestry is often the same with whatever regional variation variation that exists being only a small % of the total ancestry of the people in question.