Islam and Violence

[Adheer Warsame]

@The_Cosmos
They keep on talking about 'muh ISIS' because they watched the video and can't come up with arguments
Leave them to their stupidity

 

[NoName]

People be coming in this thread like:

 

[maestro]

^ @NewYork
You see how he's still refering to the barbaric ISIS video.

He doesn't have any sources apart from ISIS videos.


@The_Cosmos I don't plan on watching barbaric videos, bring me daliil from the Qur'aan to back up your point or take your L.

Don't waste your time on them sxb. One is a personification of a reddior and the other is a 4channer.

 

[The_Cosmos]

^ @NewYork
You see how he's still refering to the barbaric ISIS video.

He doesn't have any sources apart from ISIS videos.


@The_Cosmos I don't plan on watching barbaric videos, bring me daliil or take your L.

Since lying is your strong suit (something Islam is against), I will give you the content.


This is ibn Kathir tafsir on Chapter 8 verse 55.

http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1383&Itemid=63

Allah states here that the worst moving creatures on the face of the earth are those who disbelieve, who do not embrace the faith, and break promises whenever they make a covenant, even when they vow to keep them,

﴿وَهُمْ لاَ يَتَّقُونَ﴾

(and they do not have Taqwa) meaning they do not fear Allah regarding any of the sins they commit.

﴿فَإِمَّا تَثْقَفَنَّهُمْ فِى الْحَرْبِ﴾

(So if you gain the mastery over them in war), if you defeat them and have victory over them in war,

﴿فَشَرِّدْ بِهِم مَّنْ خَلْفَهُمْ﴾

(then disperse those who are behind them,) by severely punishing ﴿the captured people﴾ according to Ibn `Abbas, Al-Hasan Al-Basri, Ad-Dahhak, As-Suddi, `Ata' Al-Khurasani and Ibn `Uyaynah. This Ayah commands punishing them harshly and inflicting casualties on them. This way, other enemies, Arabs and non-Arabs, will be afraid and take a lesson from their end,

﴿لَعَلَّهُمْ يَذَّكَّرُونَ﴾

(so that they may learn a lesson. )

As-Suddi commented, "They might be careful not to break treaties, so that they do not meet the same end.''

﴿وَإِمَّا تَخَافَنَّ مِن قَوْمٍ خِيَانَةً فَانبِذْ إِلَيْهِمْ عَلَى سَوَآءٍ إِنَّ اللَّهَ لاَ يُحِبُّ الخَـئِنِينَ ﴾

(58. If you fear treachery from any people, throw back (their covenant) to them (so as to be) on equal terms. Certainly Allah likes not the treacherous.) make a heading, Allah says to His Prophet ,

﴿وَإِمَّا تَخَافَنَّ مِن قَوْمٍ﴾

(If you fear from any people), with whom you have a treaty of peace,

﴿خِيَانَةً﴾

(treachery), and betrayal of peace treaties and agreements that you have conducted with them,

﴿فَانبِذْ إِلَيْهِمْ﴾

(then throw back (their covenant) to them), meaning their treaty of peace.

﴿عَلَى سَوَآءٍ﴾

(on equal terms), informing them that you are severing the treaty. This way, you will be on equal terms, in that, you and they will be aware that a state of war exists between you and that the bilateral peace treaty is null and void,

﴿إِنَّ اللَّهَ لاَ يُحِبُّ الخَـئِنِينَ﴾

(Certainly Allah likes not the treacherous. ) This even includes treachery against the disbelievers. Imam Ahmad recorded that Salim bin `Amir said, "Mu`awiyah was leading an army in Roman lands, at a time the bilateral peace treaty was valid. He wanted to go closer to their forces so that when the treaty of peace ended, he could invade them. An old man riding on his animal said, `Allahu Akbar (Allah is the Great), Allahu Akbar! Be honest and stay away from betrayal.' The Messenger of Allah said,

«وَمَنْ كَانَ بَيْنَهُ وَبَيْنَ قَوْمٍ عَهْدٌ فَلَا يَحُلَّنَّ عُقْدَةً وَلَا يَشُدَّهَا حَتَّى يَنْقَضِي أَمَدُهَا، أَوْ يَنْبُذَ إِلَيْهِمْ عَلَى سَوَاء»

(Whoever has a treaty of peace with a people, then he should not untie any part of it or tie it harder until the treaty reaches its appointed term. Or, he should declare the treaty null and void so that they are both on equal terms.) When Mu`awiyah was informed of the Prophet's statement, he retreated. They found that man to be `Amr bin `Anbasah, may Allah be pleased with him.'' This Hadith was also collected by Abu Dawud At-Tayalisi, Abu Dawud, At-Tirmidhi, An-Nasa'i and Ibn Hibban in his Sahih. At-Tirmidhi said, "Hasan Sahih.''

﴿وَلاَ يَحْسَبَنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ سَبَقُواْ إِنَّهُمْ لاَ يُعْجِزُونَ - وَأَعِدُّواْ لَهُمْ مَّا اسْتَطَعْتُم مِّن قُوَّةٍ وَمِن رِّبَاطِ الْخَيْلِ تُرْهِبُونَ بِهِ عَدْوَّ اللَّهِ وَعَدُوَّكُمْ وَءَاخَرِينَ مِن دُونِهِمْ لاَ تَعْلَمُونَهُمُ اللَّهُ يَعْلَمُهُمْ وَمَا تُنفِقُواْ مِن شَىْءٍ فِى سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ يُوَفَّ إِلَيْكُمْ وَأَنتُمْ لاَ تُظْلَمُونَ ﴾

(59. And let not those who disbelieve think that they can outstrip (escape from the punishment). Verily, they will never be able to save themselves (from Allah's punishment).) (60. And make ready against them all you can of power, including steeds of war to threaten the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others besides them, whom you may not know but whom Allah does know. And whatever you shall spend in the cause of Allah shall be repaid unto you, and you shall not be treated unjustly.)

 

[The_Cosmos]

@Boqor Geeljire252 Refute this as well.

https://www.sunnah.com/muslim/5/7

Abu Huraira reported that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon hlmg) said:
I have been given superiority over the other prophets in six respects: I have been given words which are concise but comprehensive in meaning; I have been helped by terror (in the hearts of enemies): spoils have been made lawful to me: the earth has been made for me clean and a place of worship; I have been sent to all mankind and the line of prophets is closed with me.

وَحَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى بْنُ أَيُّوبَ، وَقُتَيْبَةُ بْنُ سَعِيدٍ، وَعَلِيُّ بْنُ حُجْرٍ، قَالُوا حَدَّثَنَا إِسْمَاعِيلُ، - وَهُوَ ابْنُ جَعْفَرٍ - عَنِ الْعَلاَءِ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏ "‏ فُضِّلْتُ عَلَى الأَنْبِيَاءِ بِسِتٍّ أُعْطِيتُ جَوَامِعَ الْكَلِمِ وَنُصِرْتُ بِالرُّعْبِ وَأُحِلَّتْ لِيَ الْغَنَائِمُ وَجُعِلَتْ لِيَ الأَرْضُ طَهُورًا وَمَسْجِدًا وَأُرْسِلْتُ إِلَى الْخَلْقِ كَافَّةً وَخُتِمَ بِيَ النَّبِيُّونَ ‏"‏ ‏.‏
Reference : Sahih Muslim 523 a
In-book reference : Book 5, Hadith 7
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 4, Hadith 1062
(deprecated numbering scheme)

 

[The_Cosmos]

@Boqor Geeljire252 LOOL I have more for you!!

This is the Tafsir of al-Jalalayn Chapter 48 verse 29.

http://main.altafsir.com/Tafasir.as...No=29&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2

Muhammad the subject is the Messenger of God its predicate and those who are with him that is his Companions from among the believers wa’lladhīna ma‘ahu another subject the predicate of which is the following ashiddā’u are hard tough against the disbelievers showing them no mercy but merciful among themselves ruhamā’u is a second predicate of wa’lladhīna ma‘ahu ‘and those who are with him’ that is to say they show mutual sympathy and affection for one another much like a father and a son. You see you observe them bowing prostrating in worship both rukka‘an and sujjadan are circumstantial qualifiers. They seek yabtaghūna is the beginning of a new sentence bounty from God and beatitude. Their mark sīmāhum is a subject their distinguishing feature is on their faces fī wujūhihim is its predicate this is a light and a radiance by which in the Hereafter they will be recognised as having been those who used to prostrate in this world from the effect of prostration min athari’l-sujūdi is semantically connected to the same thing to which the predicate is semantically connected that is to say kā’inatan ‘this being from the effect of prostration’; syntactically it is a circumstantial qualifier referring to the subject of kā’inatan which is also the subject of the predicate sc. wujūhihim ‘their faces’. That mentioned description is their description mathaluhum is the subject in the Torah fī’l-tawrāti is the predicate thereof; and their description in the Gospel wa-mathaluhum fī’l-injīli is a subject the predicate of which is what follows is as a seed that sends forth its shoot read shat’ahu or shata’ahu and strengthens it read āzarahu or azarahu nourishing it and assisting it and it grows stout and rises firmly becoming strong and upright upon its stalk its roots sūq is the plural of sāq delighting the sowers that is to say those who planted it on account of its fairness. The Companions may God be pleased with them are being described in this way for at the outset they were weak and very few in number; but then their number grew and they acquired strength in the most wholesome way so that He may enrage the disbelievers by them li-yaghīza bihimu’l-kuffāra is semantically connected to an omitted clause which is suggested by what preceded that is to say ‘they are likened to this so that God may enrage the disbelievers’. God has promised those of them who believe and perform righteous deeds the Companions minhum ‘of them’ min ‘of’ is an indicator of the genus and not partitive for they are all possessed of the mentioned attributes forgiveness and a great reward — Paradise. Both of these rewards will also be given to those who will come after them as is stated in other verses.

 

[Boqor Geeljire252]

^ that's how you debate like a civil person, not by posting isis videos.


Here is the refute you have been asking for

سُوۡرَةُ الإنسَان
Surah Al-Insan (76:8)
وَيُطۡعِمُونَ ٱلطَّعَامَ عَلَىٰ حُبِّهِۦ مِسۡكِينً۬ا وَيَتِيمً۬ا وَأَسِيرًا
And they give food, inspite of their love for it (or for the love of Him[ALLAH swt]), to Miskin (the poor), the orphan, and the captive, (8)

Not once in the entire Qur'aan does it state for POWs to be mistreated, infact the complete opposite is mentioned.

Also that was not the question I asked: I specifically asked you to bring a daliil from the Qur'aan which states it is permissible to throw people off multi-storey buildings?

Where in the Qur'aan or seerah does it permit people being thrown off multi-storey buildings?

 

[The_Cosmos]

^ that's how you debate like a civil person, not by posting isis videos.


Here is the refute you have been asking for

سُوۡرَةُ الإنسَان
Surah Al-Insan (76:8)
وَيُطۡعِمُونَ ٱلطَّعَامَ عَلَىٰ حُبِّهِۦ مِسۡكِينً۬ا وَيَتِيمً۬ا وَأَسِيرًا (٨)
And they give food, inspite of their love for it (or for the love of Him[ALLAH swt]), to Miskin (the poor), the orphan, and the captive, (8)

No where in the Qur'aan does it state for POWs to be mistreated, infact the complete opposite is mentioned.

Also that was not the question I asked: I specifically asked you to bring a daliil from the Qur'aan which states it is permissible to throw people off multi-storey buildings?

You literally didn't refute shit! Stop derailing and answer the points I have made. Stop cherry picking and presenting it as fact. You literally haven't refuted any of the points I made.

It's very difficult to debate someone if only one person is intellectually honest.

On your last point,

https://islamqa.info/en/38622

The Sahaabah were unanimously agreed on the execution of homosexuals, but they differed as to how they were to be executed. Some of them were of the view that they should be burned with fire, which was the view of ‘Ali (may Allaah be pleased with him) and also of Abu Bakr (may Allaah be pleased with him), as we shall see below. And some of them thought that they should be thrown down from a high place then have stones thrown at them. This was the view of Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him).

The Hanbali Madhab recommends that you throw them off tall structures as some sahaba have suggested.

 

[The_Cosmos]

@Boqor Geeljire252

The unbelievers, who are of the people of the book, are given two choices, accept Islam or pay Jizya otherwise it incumbent on Muslims to fight them of they can.

https://islamqa.info/en/34770

Praise be to Allaah.



The scholars explained that these two verses, and other similar verses, have to do with those from whom the jizyah may be taken, such as Jews, Christians and Magians (Zoroastrians). They are not to be forced, rather they are to be given the choice between becoming Muslim or paying the jizyah.

Other scholars said that this applied in the beginning, but was subsequently abrogated by Allaah’s command to fight and wage jihad. So whoever refuses to enter Islam should be fought when the Muslims are able to fight, until they either enter Islam or pay the jizyah if they are among the people who may pay jizyah. The kuffaar should be compelled to enter Islam if they are not people from whom the jizyah may be taken, because that will lead to their happiness and salvation in this world and in the Hereafter. Obliging a person to adhere to the truth in which is guidance and happiness is better for him than falsehood. Just as a person may be forced to do the duty that he owes to other people even if that is by means of imprisonment or beating, so forcing the kaafirs to believe in Allaah alone and enter into the religion of Islam is more important and more essential, because this will lead to their happiness in this world and in the Hereafter. This applies unless they are People of the Book, i.e., Jews and Christians, or Magians, because Islam says that these three groups may be given the choice: they may enter Islam or they may pay the jizyah and feel themselves subdued.

Some of the scholars are of the view that others may also be given the choice between Islam and jizyah, but the most correct view is that no others should be given this choice, rather these three groups are the only ones who may be given the choice, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) fought the kuffaar in the Arabian Peninsula and he only accepted their becoming Muslim. And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“But if they repent [by rejecting Shirk (polytheism) and accept Islamic Monotheism] and perform As-Salaah (Iqaamat-as-Salaah), and give Zakaah, then leave their way free. Verily, Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”

[al-Tawbah 9:5]

He did not say, “if they pay the jizyah”. The Jews, Christians and Magians are to be asked to enter Islam; if they refuse then they should be asked to pay the jizyah. If they refuse to pay the jizyah then the Muslims must fight them if they are able to do so. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allaah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allaah and His Messenger (Muhammad), (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued”

[al-Tawbah 9:29]

And it was proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) accepted the jizyah from the Magians, but it was not proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) or his companions (may Allaah be pleased with them) accepted the jizyah from anyone except the three groups mentioned above.

The basic principle concerning that is the words of Allaah (interpretation of the meaning):

“And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism, i.e. worshipping others besides Allaah), and the religion (worship) will all be for Allaah Alone [in the whole of the world]”

[al-Anfaal 8:39]

“Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikoon (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush. But if they repent [by rejecting Shirk (polytheism) and accept Islamic Monotheism] and perform As-Salaah (Iqaamat-as-Salaah), and give Zakaah, then leave their way free. Verily, Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”

[al-Tawbah 9:5]

This verse is known as Ayat al-Sayf (the verse of the sword).

These and similar verses abrogate the verses which say that there is no compulsion to become Muslim.

And Allaah is the Source of strength.

Islam is VIOLENT!!

 

[Boqor Geeljire252]

You literally didn't refute shit! Stop derailing and answer the points I have made. Stop cherry picking and presenting it as fact. You literally haven't refuted any of the points I made.

It's very difficult to debate someone if only one person is intellectually honest.

On your last point,

https://islamqa.info/en/38622



The Hanbali Madhab recommends that you throw them off tall structures as some sahaba have suggested.

Kid, I asked you for daliil not madhab.

Where in the Qur'aan does it explicitly say "its is permissible to throw people off multi-storey buildings"?

You literally didn't refute shit! Stop derailing and answer the points I have made. Stop cherry picking and presenting it as fact. You literally haven't refuted any of the points I made..

As for refuting, this is what you stated, "severely punishing the captured people".

Response:
Daliil from the Qur'aan stating the complete opposite.

سُوۡرَةُ الإنسَان
Surah Al-Insan (76:8)
وَيُطۡعِمُونَ ٱلطَّعَامَ عَلَىٰ حُبِّهِۦ مِسۡكِينً۬ا وَيَتِيمً۬ا وَأَسِيرًا
And they give food, inspite of their love for it (or for the love of Him[ALLAH swt]), to Miskin (the poor), the orphan, and the captive, (8)



If that's not refuting, I don't know what is.

It's very difficult to debate someone if only one person is intellectually honest.

You are yet to show me a single daliil stating "captives should be severely punished", the only source back up your ridiculous claim was an ISIS video of a captive being burnt.

 

[The_Cosmos]

Kid, I asked you for daliil not madhab.

Where in the Qur'aan does it explicitly say "its is permissible to throw people off multi-storey buildings"?



As for refuting, this is what you stated, "severely punishing ﴿the captured people".

Response:
Daliil from the Qur'aan stating the complete opposite.

سُوۡرَةُ الإنسَان
Surah Al-Insan (76:8)
وَيُطۡعِمُونَ ٱلطَّعَامَ عَلَىٰ حُبِّهِۦ مِسۡكِينً۬ا وَيَتِيمً۬ا وَأَسِيرًا
And they give food, inspite of their love for it (or for the love of Him[ALLAH swt]), to Miskin (the poor), the orphan, and the captive, (8)



If thats not refuting, I don't know what is.

You are yet to show me a single daliil stating "captives should be severely punished", the only source back up your ridiculous claim was an ISIS video of captives being burnt.




I'm not going to waste my time on you.

What kind of nonsense is this! The Quran only mentioned 3 Salah does that mean you must only pray 3 times?? The Quran is not the only source of judgement.

I have provided my source and it clearly states that some sahabas recommended Burning and some recommended throwing them off tall buildings. You also cannot simply dismiss Madhabs because they are the schools in which people follow for religious observations, everything they is Islamically true.

As for your supposed "refutation", you are literally a joke. You picked one section and called "refutation". Plus, that section comes from the Quran and all you are doing is illustrating the contradiction in Islam. That was from the Tafsit of Ibn Kathir (you cannot deny how influential he is) of the Quran chapter 8 verse 55. You haven't refuted anything.

My source was the tafsir of Ibn Kathir and not an ISIS video and thus you're just being a child.

Also, provide the tafsir for that verse.

 

[Adheer Warsame]

Kid, I asked you for daliil not madhab.

Where in the Qur'aan does it explicitly say "its is permissible to throw people off multi-storey buildings?

The punishment is an emulation of what happened to the people of lot
It's as simple as I can put it

 

[Jujuman]

Lol this escalated quickly

 

[The_Cosmos]

@Boqor Geeljire252

Read the damn sources my good man.


This is ibn Kathir tafsir on Chapter 8 verse 55.

http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1383&Itemid=63

and this one about throwing gays off buildings

https://islamqa.info/en/38622

 

[Boqor Geeljire252]

What kind of nonsense is this!

As for your supposed "refutation", you are literally a joke. You picked one section and called "refutation". Plus, that section comes from the Quran and all you are doing is illustrating the contradiction in Islam. That was from the Tafsit of Ibn Kathir (you cannot deny how influential he is) of the Quran chapter 8 verse 55. You haven't refuted anything.

Joke?

It't the word of Allah swt, good luck trying to refute that.

Open any kitaab and read for your self, it's the same anywhere in the world.

That was from the Tafsit of Ibn Kathir (you cannot deny how influential he is) of the Quran chapter 8 verse 55. You haven't refuted anything.

This is the ayah you mentioned

سُوۡرَةُ الاٴنفَال​

Surah Al-Anfal

​

إِنَّ شَرَّ ٱلدَّوَآبِّ عِندَ ٱللَّهِ ٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ فَهُمۡ لَا يُؤۡمِنُونَ (٥٥​

Verily, The worst of moving (living) creatures before Allâh (swt) are those who disbelieve, - so they shall not believe. (55)



Where does it mention "captives being severely punished"

The punishment is an emulation of what happened to the people of lot
It's as simple as I can put it

The qawmu luut were thrown off multi-storey buildings?

Your claims are getting more and more desperate without your ISIS videos to back you up






@The_Cosmos @Adheer Warsame
There's no point debating with you, if you are not going to take my word; you might aswell open a kitaab and read the words of Allah swt for yourself

 

[Jujuman]

Kid, I asked you for daliil not madhab.

Where in the Qur'aan does it explicitly say "its is permissible to throw people off multi-storey buildings"?







As for refuting, this is what you stated, "severely punishing the captured people".

Response:
Daliil from the Qur'aan stating the complete opposite.

سُوۡرَةُ الإنسَان
Surah Al-Insan (76:8)
وَيُطۡعِمُونَ ٱلطَّعَامَ عَلَىٰ حُبِّهِۦ مِسۡكِينً۬ا وَيَتِيمً۬ا وَأَسِيرًا
And they give food, inspite of their love for it (or for the love of Him[ALLAH swt]), to Miskin (the poor), the orphan, and the captive, (8)



If that's not refuting, I don't know what is.




You are yet to show me a single daliil stating "captives should be severely punished", the only source back up your ridiculous claim was an ISIS video of a captive being burnt.

This is a recurring issue in Islam. It's very flip floppy and will change it's stance on something as it sees fit. There is a reason for the concept of of naskh (abrogation) being introduced in the Qur'an.

This verse highlights what I'm talking about.
"It is not for a prophet to have captives [of war] until he inflicts a massacre [upon Allah 's enemies] in the land. Some Muslims desire the commodities of this world, but Allah desires [for you] the Hereafter. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise." (8:67)

This is maltreatment of captives to the utmost degree.

The context behind the verse was that basically the Muslims had captured several opposing fighters. Muhammad gathered his companions to discuss what to do with these prisoners. Umar suggested they be executed, another prominent sahabi suggested that they engage release the captives for ransom hence why the verse says "Some Muslims desire the commodity of this World." Muhammad went for the ransom and was (according to Muslims) rebuked by Allah for doing this.

The verse you cited is by all means true but it just goes to highlight the inconsistency and the constant abrogations which dogged Islam.

You've shown to be extremely intellectually dishonest in this thread, dismissing a video and labeling it an ISIS one when it patently isn't and furthermore asking for daliil from Qur'an and Hadith when that is what exactly the Masked Arab videos show.

I don't expect you to quote back at me but I couldn't ignore this clear falsehood that it's an 'ISIS video'

 

[The_Cosmos]

This is a recurring issue in Islam. It's very flip floppy and will change it's stance on something as it sees fit. There is a reason for the concept of of naskh (abrogation) being introduced in the Qur'an.

This verse highlights what I'm talking about.
"It is not for a prophet to have captives [of war] until he inflicts a massacre [upon Allah 's enemies] in the land. Some Muslims desire the commodities of this world, but Allah desires [for you] the Hereafter. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise." (8:67)

This is maltreatment of captives to the utmost degree.

The context behind the verse was that basically the Muslims had captured several opposing fighters. Muhammad gathered his companions to discuss what to do with these prisoners. Umar suggested they be executed, another prominent sahabi suggested that they engage release the captives for ransom hence why the verse says "Some Muslims desire the commodity of this World." Muhammad went for the ransom and was (according to Muslims) rebuked by Allah for doing this.

The verse you cited is by all means true but it just goes to highlight the inconsistency and the constant abrogations which dogged Islam.

You've shown to be extremely intellectually dishonest in this thread, dismissing a video and labeling it an ISIS one when it patently isn't and furthermore asking for daliil from Qur'an and Hadith when that is what exactly the Masked Arab videos show.

I don't expect you to quote back at me but I couldn't ignore this clear falsehood that it's an 'ISIS video'

Loooool that's exactly what we've been saying the entire time but these lot only resort to insults and clear lies.

I was accused of taking things out of context, yey no evidence was provided and instead was insulted over my atheism.

These lot don't care about what Islam actually says, they only care about what they want it to say.

 

[Boqor Geeljire252]

This is a recurring issue in Islam. It's very flip floppy and will change it's stance on something as it sees fit. There is a reason for the concept of of naskh (abrogation) being introduced in the Qur'an.

This verse highlights what I'm talking about.
"It is not for a prophet to have captives [of war] until he inflicts a massacre [upon Allah 's enemies] in the land. Some Muslims desire the commodities of this world, but Allah desires [for you] the Hereafter. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise." (8:67)

This is maltreatment of captives to the utmost degree.

The context behind the verse was that basically the Muslims had captured several opposing fighters. Muhammad gathered his companions to discuss what to do with these prisoners. Umar suggested they be executed, another prominent sahabi suggested that they engage release the captives for ransom hence why the verse says "Some Muslims desire the commodity of this World." Muhammad went for the ransom and was (according to Muslims) rebuked by Allah for doing this.

The verse you cited is by all means true but it just goes to highlight the inconsistency and the constant abrogations which dogged Islam.

You can deny all you like, but when you capture injured or POWs, you are not allowed Islamically to harm them. I have proved this already.



However you are allowed to ask for ransom.


"Thereafter (is the time) either for generosity (i.e. free them without ransom) or ransom."
Al-Qur'an 47:4

Even then Islam was very merciful, the ransom did not always have to be dirhams.
If the captive could not afford to pay the ransom, another form of ransom would be assumed, an educational dimension; most of the Makkans, unlike the Madinese, were literate and so each prisoner who could not afford the ransom would be entrusted with ten children to teach them the art of writing and reading.Once the child had been proficient enough, the instructor would be set free.


The Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم encouraged the Muslims to treat the prisoners so well to such an extent that the captors used to give the captives their bread (the more valued part of the meal) and keep the dates for themselves.


The only time captives were killed was the Battle of Badr and even then, NOT ALL prisoners were killed, only the ones who persecuted the Muslims in Makkah, and harboured deep hatred towards Allah and His Messenger, such as Nadr ibn al-Harith and 'Uqbah ibn Abi Mu'ayt, were killed.

You've shown to be extremely intellectually dishonest in this thread, dismissing a video and labeling it an ISIS one when it patently isn't and furthermore asking for daliil from Qur'an and Hadith when that is what exactly the Masked Arab videos show.

I don't expect you to quote back at me but I couldn't ignore this clear falsehood that it's an 'ISIS video'

Your argument about Islam allowing "captives to severely punished" is fixated on a video which is trying to justify ISIS atrocities.

 

[Jujuman]

You can deny all you like, but when you capture injured or POWs, you are not allowed Islamically to harm them. I have proved this already.



However you are allowed to ask for ransom.


"Thereafter (is the time) either for generosity (i.e. free them without ransom) or ransom."
Al-Qur'an 47:4

Even then Islam was very merciful, the ransom did not always have to be dirhams.
If the captive could not afford to pay the ransom, another form of ransom would be assumed, an educational dimension; most of the Makkans, unlike the Madinese, were literate and so each prisoner who could not afford the ransom would be entrusted with ten children to teach them the art of writing and reading.Once the child had been proficient enough, the instructor would be set free.


The Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم encouraged the Muslims to treat the prisoners so well to such an extent that the captors used to give the captives their bread (the more valued part of the meal) and keep the dates for themselves.


The only time captives were killed was the Battle of Badr and even then, NOT ALL prisoners were killed, only the ones who persecuted the Muslims in Makkah, and harboured deep hatred towards Allah and His Messenger, such as Nadr ibn al-Harith and 'Uqbah ibn Abi Mu'ayt, were killed.


Your argument about Islam allowing "captives to severely punished" is fixated on a video which is trying to justify ISIS atrocities.

No it was from al-Qur'an chapter 8 verse 67.

If you're gonna misrepresent my arguments then all I have to say is enjoy your day. Pointless engaging with you on this subject.

 

[The_Cosmos]

You can deny all you like, but when you capture injured or POWs, you are not allowed Islamically to harm them. I have proved this already.



However you are allowed to ask for ransom.


"Thereafter (is the time) either for generosity (i.e. free them without ransom) or ransom."
Al-Qur'an 47:4

Even then Islam was very merciful, the ransom did not always have to be dirhams.
If the captive could not afford to pay the ransom, another form of ransom would be assumed, an educational dimension; most of the Makkans, unlike the Madinese, were literate and so each prisoner who could not afford the ransom would be entrusted with ten children to teach them the art of writing and reading.Once the child had been proficient enough, the instructor would be set free.


The Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم encouraged the Muslims to treat the prisoners so well to such an extent that the captors used to give the captives their bread (the more valued part of the meal) and keep the dates for themselves.


The only time captives were killed was the Battle of Badr and even then, NOT ALL prisoners were killed, only the ones who persecuted the Muslims in Makkah, and harboured deep hatred towards Allah and His Messenger, such as Nadr ibn al-Harith and 'Uqbah ibn Abi Mu'ayt, were killed.


Your argument about Islam allowing "captives to severely punished" is fixated on a video which is trying to justify ISIS atrocities.

All you're doing is dismissing some sections of the Quran with others. You're literally exposing the contradictions in the Quran.


Plus, you've fixated yourself on literally a small section of what was a barrage of violent acts in tye Quran.

You only one section but left the rest hanging.


Anyways, you've shown yourself incapable of debating like a civil person and presenting actual concise arguments and thus I won't be contributing this with you.