Islam is the only hope for Native Americans to make a comeback

[VixR]

Islam and Arabism are two different things that you are mixing up. Islam would rout the social ills amongst them

No, they’re not.

Islam is Arabized Judaism. An Arab in the Arabian peninsula overheard Jewish stories and lore, and appropriated it into an Arabic religion; giving it an Arabic Quran, positing that the Arab language is the language of heaven, and transforming it into a new political and cultural religion. All your mentioned prophets in the Quran are Jewish, and all Quran’s stories are found in their tradition.

What basically happened was, one cousin copied off the other, and both their ethnocentric nonsense mutterings evolved into major world religions that all the unthinking masses of the world adopted through abandoning their own religion systems..

At the very least, the Jews kept their stuff to themselves. It was Christian and Arabized versions of their narrative that sought expansion.

 

[imperialist]

Yes, objectively. Dude, do the mental math yourself.

I don’t see how you can say Islam could’ve saved them with a straight face, when the vast majority of majority-Muslim ethnicities/countries are not enriched or better off with Islam. That’s [religion] clearly not a metric of success.

Agree that religion is not a metric of success but if they where to apply Islam correctly it would certainly alleviate them. You stated "Objectively, the very last thing Native Americans need is mass conversion to Islam." So what part of Islam would make their lives worse?

 

[Samaalic Era]

No, they’re not.

Islam is Arabized Judaism. An Arab in the Arabian peninsula overheard Jewish stories and lore, and appropriated it into an Arabic religion; giving it an Arabic Quran, positing that the Arab language is the language of heaven, and transforming it into a new political and cultural religion. All your mentioned prophets in the Quran are Jewish, and all Quran’s stories are found in their tradition.

What basically happened was, one cousin copied off the other, and both their ethnocentric nonsense mutterings evolved into major world religions that all the unthinking masses of the world adopted through abandoning their own religion systems..

At the very least, the Jews kept their stuff to themselves. It was Christian and Arabized versions of their narrative that sought expansion.

Monotheism is isnt something unique to Jews. It is the oldest belief in human history

 

[Waaqo of Punt]

1) West African slaves included some Muslims who were known for being particularly fierce in their resistance. Muslims were purposefully separated by the gaals so as to not coordinate rebellions on plantations. Look up the Muslim Malê Revolt of Brazil in Ramadan 1835. Black African Muslim slaves fought against the Portuguese and as a result, the surviving rebels who were involved were sent back to Africa as free people as they Europeans didn't want them to serve as a catalyst for more revolts.

2) The Mongols were exceptionally powerful and sacked Baghdad, the capital of the Muslim world at the time, but the first group to defeat them in battle and stop their encroachment permanently was the Muslims at the Battle of Ain Jalut in September 1260. Furthermore, while Ghengis Khan was a pagan, his grandson converted to Islam, and within five generations of Ghengis, the Mongol Empire was divided into 4 Khanates - the Ilkhanate, Golden Horde, Chagatai Khanate, and Yuan Dynasty - three of which were Muslim (all except the Yuan).

3) The Adal-Abyssinian wars ended in a stalemate after the death of Imam Ahmed Gurey resulting in status quo ante bellum. He had conquered over 80% of Ethiopia when he died and would have likely conquered all of it had he not died so abruptly. The only group who truly "won" were the Oromo who were then able to migrate north in the Great Oromo Migrations as both Somalis of Adal and Amhara of Abyssinia were too weakened after the war to stop the Oromo hordes.

4) Israel-Palestine is an Arab war, not a religious dispute, and has been since the forefathers of the Arab kings sold their brothers to the British and decided to destroy the Ummah. Don't confuse Arab nationalism/Baathism with Islam.

1) slave rebellions happened in many points in hisotry, wether they were from Christians or Muslims. Hindu slaves rebelled and fought against Muslims and there were slave rebellions in America from Christian slaves too. Anyway it's not that relevant, 1 tiny rebellion isn't gonna cleanse away the millions of slaves who were born and died as slaves in the west.

2) The Muslims were the Mongol's enemy and were standing in their way of expansion. After centuries on karbash from Mongols ofc they're gonna lose a battle. Also the Mongols were bery tolerant of religion. They promoted Islam along with many others in their empire. Muslim influence was expanding in the east so Islam then became a culture for some ethnics that left paganism. Many Mongols converted to Buddhism and Christianity.

In similar fashion the Romans hated Christians and wanted to get rid of them, yet, the empire became Christian and it spread to the whole continent of Europe.
btw very few Mongols are Muslim today. Actually, there's more Christian Mongols than the latter.

3) No...Gurey occupied 60% of Abyssinia. In fact, he tried to expand to Medri Bahri (an independent kingdom in current Eritrea) but the Medri Bahris defeated the Adals. Also the Ethios won the war just admit it. After Gurey got slayed by the Ethios the whole army retreated. Adal gradually lost land and control until it got absorbed by the Ethio empire. There's a reason why Harar today is majority Christian.

4) You're telling me that the Arabs didn't care that Israel was gonna claim their holy land and it was just political feuds? lol that's like saying the crusades were just for terrioty instead of religion.

 

[VixR]

Monotheism is isnt something unique to Jews. It is the oldest belief in human history

No, it isn’t. Animism and polytheism are older than monotheism, though that’s beside the point. There are other monotheistic systems outside Judaism, Christinity and Islam, but these three aforementioned have the same root, and all come from Jewish lore.

 

[Ayubi]

No, it isn’t. Animism and polytheism are older than monotheism, though that’s beside the point. There are other monotheistic systems outside Judaism, Christinity and Islam, but these three aforementioned have the same root, and all come from Jewish lore.

When we say Tawhid (monotheism) is the oldest, were talking about the first human being (Prophet Adam) and the Jinn's before him who were monotheists.

 

[Waaqo of Punt]

When we say Tawhid (monotheism) is the oldest, were talking about the first human being (Prophet Adam) and the Jinn's before him who were monotheists.

Dude that means nothing to an atheist let alone @VixR . She won't revert after hearing the story of a clay-man called Adam and a clay-woman called Eve.

If u wanna convert her u can't start like this. U have to beat them at their own game n shiet

 

[VixR]

Agree that religion is not a metric of success but if they where to apply Islam correctly it would certainly alleviate them. You stated "Objectively, the very last thing Native Americans need is mass conversion to Islam." So what part of Islam would make their lives worse?

The argument on this thread is that Islam would make them better.

When we say Tawhid (monotheism) is the oldest, were talking about the first human being (Prophet Adam) and the Jinn's before him who were monotheists.

Sure...

We’ve documented proof of early humans being polytheists and animists, but yeah, sure, “first human being” Adam and the invisible Jinn who’s existence requires suspending disbelief sure do throw a huge wrench into that.

 

[Ayubi]

The argument on this thread is that Islam would make them better.

Sure...

We’ve documented proof of early humans being polytheists and animists, but yeah, sure, “first human being” Adam and the invisible Jinn who’s existence requires suspending disbelief sure do throw a huge wrench into that.

Since your an Agnostic or an Atheist, can I ask you one question? How do you know morality is objective? Because according to Atheists/Agnostics God doesn't exist or there not sure of his existence therefore Morality is subjective to them. @VixR how do you know morality is objective? Could you answer that?

 

[astorecalledkmart]

Once upon a time, there was a man named Ignaz Semmelweis who believed in invisible entities on people's hands that made them more likely to pick up disease. He was locked away in a mental asylum as no one believed in these invisible beings as they couldn't see them, hear them, taste them, smell them, or feel them. These beings are now called bacteria.

Adam and Eve sound odd to some people, but it's all good when we add the adjectives "Mitochondrial" to Eve and "Y-Chromosome" to Adam. People are free to debate the order of their appearance and if they existed at the same time, but it is no longer a point of contention, but rather established fact that all of humanity descended from one man and one woman.

All of humanity descending from one couple seems illogical, but somehow monkeys deciding to put on pants and pay taxes does. Interesting times lol.

 

[VixR]

Since your an Agnostic or an Atheist, can I ask you one question? How do you know morality is objective? Because according to Atheists/Agnostics God doesn't exist or there not sure of his existence therefore Morality is subjective to them. @VixR how do you know morality is objective? Could you answer that?

Let me ask you something that might help you better understand my position: Do you believe an act is right because God says it's so, or does God say it's so because it's right?

 

[Waaqo of Punt]

Do you believe an act is right because God says it's so, or does God say it's so because it's right?

Because says it's right. We go by his justice.

"..or does God say it's so because it's right?"
God decides what's right and what's wrong. When we go to the bottom of things nothing can be truly evil or good, that's why God sent religion.

 

[Ayubi]

Let me ask you something that might help you better understand my position: Do you believe an act is right because God says it's so, or does God say it's so because it's right?

Yes, since I believe that my creator is all knowing and all wise, everything he says or tells us to do is right. I also believe morality is only objective when we have Religion telling us what is right or wrong. Now @VixR please answer my question. Do you believe morality is objective and if you do, how do you determine that?

 

[VixR]

Yes, since I believe that my creator is all knowing and all wise, everything he says or tells us to do is right. I also believe morality is only objective when we have Religion telling us what is right or wrong. Now @VixR please answer my question. Do you believe morality is objective and if you do, how do you determine that?

Because says it's right. We go by his justice.

"..or does God say it's so because it's right?"
God decides what's right and what's wrong. When we go to the bottom of things nothing can be truly evil or good, that's why God sent religion.

No, you’re muddling the question. It’s an either/or.

Are you guys saying what god says is right is right because its god that said it, or are things inherently right or wrong?

 

[Waaqo of Punt]

Are you guys saying what god says is right is right because its god that said it?

Yes, u find that weird? We believe he's the 'supreme power'. When u were a child and u got scolded u may not have always understood the reasoning behind it but at the end of the day ur parents did it for ur own good and because it's right (in most cases...?)

Humans will always decide right or wrong when it's convenient and/or depending on their own philophies. What is completely vile today was normal in the past and might become normal in the future too.

 

[VixR]

Yes, u find that weird? We believe he's the 'supreme power'. When u were a child and u got scolded u may not have always understood the reasoning behind it but at the end of the day ur parents did it for ur own good and because it's right (in most cases...?)

Humans will always decide right or wrong when it's convenient and/or depending on their own philophies. What is completely vile today was normal in the past and might become normal in the future too.

So then, if something is moral because god says it’s moral, it’s not objectively moral. It’s subjective.

People are made to follow the proposed guidelines because god said it, not because it’s “objectively moral”. They don’t have to agree with it morally.

 

[Waaqo of Punt]

So then, if something is moral because god says it’s moral, it’s not objectively moral. It’s subjective.

Precisely. It's subjectively moral surrounding God aaand God is supreme that's why we go by HIS/HER moral.

You're frantically looking for a loophole where it doesn't exist

There's many subjective morals and half baked truths out there. U could be a Catholic, a pagan, a Buddhist etc. Why do we follow our God? That's a diff topic but in short we acknowledge him/her as supreme.

The Orthodox Christians believe this too before protestantism and Catholics came over....

Do u get my point though?

 

[Ayubi]

So then, if something is moral because god says it’s moral, it’s not objectively moral. It’s subjective.

People are made to follow the proposed guidelines because god said it, not because it’s “objectively moral”. They don’t have to agree with it morally.

God's moral law is objective because we rely on it as a guide. Atheists/Agnostics don't have any objective morals and often your morals are influenced by ideologies that are subjective and don't last long. So when I hear an Atheist criticizing people in Afghanistan, Somalia or Yemen, I have to laugh since these people don't have a moral compass so there the last people to be judging anyone. Do you believe Morality is objective @VixR?

 

[VixR]

Precisely. It's subjectively moral surrounding God aaand God is supreme that's why we go by HIS/HER moral.

You're frantically looking for a loophole where it doesn't exist

There's many subjective morals and half baked truths out there. U could be a Catholic, a pagan, a Buddhist etc. Why do we follow our God? That's a diff topic but in short we acknowledge him/her as supreme.

The Orthodox Christians believe this too before protestantism and Catholics came over....

Do u get my point though?

So you agree it’s subjective. God, in this case, is akin to a dictator. There is no right or wrong, but that god says it is.

This is will of the stronger type shit. Dominance is king. It isn’t that things are right or wrong inherently, it’s that a dominant power we’re all subservient to determined what is right or wrong through it’s will.

So then, you understand my position, which is that morals are subjective and madeup along with the Gods that’re used to further them.

We set up our morals in society based on what’s the most opportune to the most people, so that we may live relatively decent lives. That’s what moral codes are.

Now, in case you want to backtrack and go with (2), which is that god says things are right because they’re inherently right (objective). That would imply that god is not the source of that morality.

 

[imperialist]

Let me ask you something that might help you better understand my position: Do you believe an act is right because God says it's so, or does God say it's so because it's right?

There are a number of philosophical answers to your question but if we approach this from an atheistic position human morality is just a product of evolution and social influence. If we accept this premise it entails that humans are prisoners to their instinct and social Force's. So if that's all there is to morality why shouldn't we rebel against it and take advantage whenever it suits us.