''It would worry me if Somalis achieved self-determination and sorted themselves out, with oil'': says a British diplomat

[Idilinaa]

A compilation of foreigners take on Somalia's political situation throughout the years . The first guy is talking about AS is talking nonsense though.

Copy text from the tweet: Analysis of the different narratives and language employed

"Two things would worry me if Somalis achieved self-determination and sorted themselves out, with oil. The first thing they would do is invade Ethiopia," says a speaker with a British accent and belligerent tone in a clip starting at 6:32 to 7:01. When asked, "Within a five to ten-year period?" he responds, "Things move fast in that region, but they would certainly attempt to take the Ogaden back. We don’t want another Somali-Ethiopian war."


This made me wonder: Is the West protecting its projects in Ethiopia and Kenya at the expense of Somali self-determination? It's evident that the liberal democracy the West has tried to impose has been completely rejected in Somalia and stands as an utter failure. Yet, by carving out chunks of Somali territory and handing them to Ethiopia and Kenya, it begs the question: Why was this done?

The language used when referring to Somalia and Somalis is equally peculiar. In another clip, President Museveni remarks, "We might be Kaffirs, but this is our land," referring to Somalia. This bizarre claim reflects a colonial mindset that seeks to dominate Somalia while disregarding its sovereignty and agency.

Somalia has faced multiple forms of colonialism, each rooted in revamping Somali society to align with the colonizer's vision and the interests of their regional puppets. Yet, what’s most striking is the contradictory narrative:

On one hand, Somalia is branded a failed state. On the other hand, Somalis are admired for their technological innovations and entrepreneurial spirit. This paradox—acknowledging Somalia as a thriving society while maintaining the label of a failed state—reveals a deep-seated colonial perspective.
The admiration Somalis receive for their resilience and business acumen is often accompanied by attempts to suppress their unity and self-determination.

Take a moment to reflect on these dynamics and check out the video. Somalia’s through non-Somalis, its present, and its future are deeply intertwined with these global and regional power games. How much longer will the West’s colonial frameworks dictate the fate of this resilient nation?

 

[Idilinaa]

@Midas @Galool @Zak12 @X29 @Rayaale @angelplan @gasara

 

[Idilinaa]

last two paragraphs of the 2nd tweet:
The objective was to provoke invasions in Somalia, spread diseases, weaken social unity, intensify inequality, and eradicate the cultural and religious values of the Somali people.

The acceptance of such actions can result in the decline of any society. Somalia has demonstrated resilience and will continue to do so. #Somali #Mogadishu #Somalipeninsula

 

[Idilinaa]

Short summarized clip on how the west continues to wage war or support the destruction and dismantling of Muslim societies in attempt pacify it in an image that is appropriate to them, aid Isreal's expansionist ambitions, in the case of Somalia ''Ethiopian ambitions'' but also often left out to push for liberal democracy.


Full video. I am sharing this so you can understand the nature of the beast

 

[Idilinaa]

The sectarian divisions you see in Muslim socities/Somalia is a direct creation of Isreali Mossad/CIA strategy and covert plan.

the 40 year Zionist plan to destroy the Muslim world

youtube.com

''How to weaken our enemies. We have these regional enemies, .. the plan is that we have to create as much internal conflict as possible. We need to exacerbate sectarianism basically. Lets say the Sunni side is getting to strong, lets arm/fund the Shia side, We see the shia getting too strung we'll fund the Sunni side'''
''As long as they are fighting eachother, they are not going to have time for us, they are going destroy eachother. We don't have to worry about it''

I covered it in these these threads:

Greater Israel Explained: The Israeli Plan to Conquer the Arab World (Somalia ties into this i'll explain)

Pay close attention to what he says at @11:35 , basically goes in on the false narrative of the middle east (Somalia is connected to this) He says: The Cartoonish caricature of ''The Middle East'' as a region that is hopelessly condemned to thousand year old ethnic and religious conflict is one...

www.somalispot.com

Somalia one of the 7 countries chosen to be taken out

so it's really just israel A little bit more complicated than that, but Israel made sure that Sudan suffered for its stances and alignments What should be pointed out is that even when Israel was supporting us, Khartoum was the largest recipient of U.S. military aid after Egypt; and this is...

www.somalispot.com

 

[gasara]

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[Idilinaa]

Spoiler

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What goes around comes around.

Ethiopia is in completely shambles in every way and in sustained misery, poverty and violence.

Isreal is embroiled in economic recession, and social upheaval. The whole western world is in an economic stagnation, souring housing crisis , heading to a demographic collapse and political turmoil around non-western immigration or outsourcing of labor.

They are paying the price for their crimes.

In stark contradiction to Somalia which is actually flourishing in the midst of all the attempts made against them. Has mostly upsides to it, when looking at it's future and has made many gains these past few years. Same for Ogaden, the only region in Ethiopia that is functional, developing and at peace.

Our resilience is our super power. It frustrates people, even others on this forum.

 

[Midas]

It's an intresting compilation for sure. My only problem is that people assume this is some sort of malicious plan to destroy somalia or other Muslim countries. When it's really that none of these situations went the way the u.s wanted becuase they had no clue about the situation on the ground. A lot of people Try to create a coherent narrative about u.s foreign policy when its a tug of war between all sorts of different facts and intrest groups will make you see stuff that isn't there. The guys who did the Iraq War for example were neocons. That entire faction was discredited and died after the Iraq War.



Ironically the first guy probably has the most intresting and correct take. I mean we have dozens of officials in both past and present somali govts who were high ranking officials. If somebodu from alshabab wants out they arrange stuff with certain clan elders who serve as mediators between them and the federal govt hes verh muc correcg in that the way alshab will fully disappear is a large scale negotiations between them and the fed govt. With multiple promises for immunity and other stuff. It doesn't sound nice but that's how this stuff goes.

 

[Idilinaa]

It's an intresting compilation for sure. My only problem is that people assume this is some sort of malicious plan to destroy somalia or other Muslim countries. When it's really that none of these situations went the way the u.s wanted becuase they had no clue about the situation on the ground. A lot of people Try to create a coherent narrative about u.s foreign policy when its a tug of war between all sorts of different facts and intrest groups will make you see stuff that isn't there. The guys who did the Iraq War for example were neocons. That entire faction was discredited and died after the Iraq War.

I don't agree. It's only a blunder when they unsuccessfully manage to rewamp those Muslim societies and plant their puppet government that espouses ''liberal democratic'' values and is not hostile to their interests and end up leaving it worse off.

To achieve their geo-political goals they will employ ''The ends just justify the means'' rationale. That's how they can break international laws, and commit human rights atrocities and ignore warnings and evidence that points to the contrary.

On the Somali case , you can read this study:

Read this study it breaks down US involvement and destabilizing efforts in Somalia

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/03063968231155358

The United states even launched Economic Warfare on Somalia:

The waged physical and ideological warefare on Somalia in service of Ethiopia

You can't say Iraq war was neo-cons that died out when Obama took over and continued on the same path. He launched airstrikes or military raids in at least seven countries: Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Somalia and Pakistan. Don't even get me started on Libya ...

Ironically the first guy probably has the most intresting and correct take. I mean we have dozens of officials in both past and present somali govts who were high ranking officials. If somebodu from alshabab wants out they arrange stuff with certain clan elders who serve as mediators between them and the federal govt hes verh muc correcg in that the way alshab will fully disappear is a large scale negotiations between them and the fed govt. With multiple promises for immunity and other stuff. It doesn't sound nice but that's how this stuff goes.

Those are people that defect from Alshabaab , it's more used as a vehicle to de-incentivize them to remain and join the group. But this happens through informal negotiation channels.

It doesn't mean that most people have close ties with them or they are embedded deep within to that extant.

 

[Zak12]

The west/America have been major backers of Ethiopia since post-WW2 at the total expense of Somalis and Eritreans. It was they who gave Ethiopia Galbeed despite protests of Somalis living there. It was they who forced Eritreans into a federation and did not bat an eye when Selassie illegally annexed Eritrea. Why? Well I suppose the easy answer is Ethiopia's connections with Israel whom for the longest time feared Muslim domination of the Middle East and with Somalia being located at the entrance of the Red Sea, presents a threat to Israel's shipping. The other aspect is that deep down America knows a stable and united Somalia would never kowtow to American interests like Ethiopia and Kenya have.

Which of course is all nonsense since Somalia has not once ever threatened Ethiopia or the west and only ever sought what is best for its people.

 

[Zak12]

@Idilinaa this reminds me of a thread @Three Moons made about Yuri Bezmenov's stages of subversion.

All of them have been applied to Somalia and the Somali people over the last 4 decades, some of them concurrently, and we are now in the ‘normalised’ stage, which is reinforced with a heavy digital PSYOP campaign;

Stage 1: Demoralization​

Demoralization is the first stage of ideological subversion, and it involves the systematic undermining of a society’s moral and ethical foundations. Bezmenov explained that this process typically takes 15–20 years, roughly the time needed to educate one generation. During this stage, foreign agents seek to infiltrate educational institutions, media, and cultural platforms to influence the minds of young people. The goal is to instill a sense of disillusionment, moral relativism, and a rejection of traditional values.

In the demoralization phase, individuals are conditioned to question their own cultural identity, history, and societal norms. The emphasis is on creating a sense of instability and disorientation within the target population. This sets the stage for the subsequent phases of ideological subversion.

Stage 2: Destabilization​

Once demoralization has taken root, the next stage is destabilization. This phase is characterized by the weakening of essential institutions and structures within the society. Bezmenov pointed out that this process can be expedited if foreign influence successfully manipulates the political, economic, and defense systems. Key sectors such as law enforcement, military, and intelligence are targeted to compromise the nation’s ability to respond to external and internal threats.

Destabilization aims to create a state of crisis, fostering a sense of insecurity and anxiety among the population. Economic instability, social unrest, and political polarization become prominent features of this stage, laying the groundwork for further manipulation.

Stage 3: Crisis​

The third stage of ideological subversion is the crisis phase. By this point, the society is in a state of chaos, with heightened tension and a breakdown of trust in institutions. Bezmenov highlighted that this crisis could manifest in various forms, including political upheaval, economic collapse, or social unrest. The goal is to push the society to a breaking point where people are desperate for solutions, paving the way for radical change.

During the crisis phase, external forces may exploit the vulnerabilities within the society, offering alternative ideologies or solutions. This creates an opportunity for a shift in power dynamics and the imposition of foreign ideologies on the now susceptible population.

Stage 4: Normalization​

The final stage is normalization, where the previously subverted ideology becomes the new norm. Bezmenov emphasized that this phase is not about a return to stability but rather the establishment of a new societal order based on the foreign ideology. The once-targeted society is now reshaped according to the infiltrating force’s vision, erasing its original cultural identity and values.

Normalization solidifies the control of the foreign ideology, and the population may no longer resist as the altered reality becomes accepted and internalized. The society is transformed, and the process of ideological subversion is complete.

Yuri Bezmenov’s insights into the stages of ideological subversion remain relevant, serving as a cautionary reminder of the importance of preserving the values, institutions, and cultural identity that define a nation. Understanding these stages provides a framework for recognizing and countering potential threats to the integrity of a society.

 

[Basra]

A compilation of foreigners take on Somalia's political situation throughout the years . The first guy is talking about AS is talking nonsense though.

Copy text from the tweet: Analysis of the different narratives and language employed

"Two things would worry me if Somalis achieved self-determination and sorted themselves out, with oil. The first thing they would do is invade Ethiopia," says a speaker with a British accent and belligerent tone in a clip starting at 6:32 to 7:01. When asked, "Within a five to ten-year period?" he responds, "Things move fast in that region, but they would certainly attempt to take the Ogaden back. We don’t want another Somali-Ethiopian war."


This made me wonder: Is the West protecting its projects in Ethiopia and Kenya at the expense of Somali self-determination? It's evident that the liberal democracy the West has tried to impose has been completely rejected in Somalia and stands as an utter failure. Yet, by carving out chunks of Somali territory and handing them to Ethiopia and Kenya, it begs the question: Why was this done?

The language used when referring to Somalia and Somalis is equally peculiar. In another clip, President Museveni remarks, "We might be Kaffirs, but this is our land," referring to Somalia. This bizarre claim reflects a colonial mindset that seeks to dominate Somalia while disregarding its sovereignty and agency.

Somalia has faced multiple forms of colonialism, each rooted in revamping Somali society to align with the colonizer's vision and the interests of their regional puppets. Yet, what’s most striking is the contradictory narrative:

On one hand, Somalia is branded a failed state. On the other hand, Somalis are admired for their technological innovations and entrepreneurial spirit. This paradox—acknowledging Somalia as a thriving society while maintaining the label of a failed state—reveals a deep-seated colonial perspective.
The admiration Somalis receive for their resilience and business acumen is often accompanied by attempts to suppress their unity and self-determination.

Take a moment to reflect on these dynamics and check out the video. Somalia’s through non-Somalis, its present, and its future are deeply intertwined with these global and regional power games. How much longer will the West’s colonial frameworks dictate the fate of this resilient nation?

Walaaahi oo bilaahii oo tolaahi he is right. There is a reason Somalis will NEVER sort themselves out. They will be like the African Mongols. Amaazing isn't it! lol God is great! lol

 

[Ghengis Kaarhis]

I pray that we will all be able to witness a prosperous Somalia and the fall of Ethiopia inshAllah

 

[therandomone]

I pray that we will all be able to witness a prosperous Somalia and the fall of Ethiopia inshAllah

Ethiopia future is to be vassal state for Somalia.

 

[Ghengis Kaarhis]

Ethiopia future is to be vassal state for Somalia.

Nah f*ck em I want absolutely nothing to do with them, minimize trade and interactions at bare minimum.