Just a friendly reminder that the U.S/UN encouraged the Ethiopian invasion of Somalia

[Tukraq]

‘Laugh in my face’...


1)I do not have a ‘bad political lens’
—— After almost 3 decades of constant and ceaseless conflict. A final agreement was formalised in the 2012 constitution giving each state a degree of autonomy. This autonomy is confined within its boundaries under the ‘constitution’ you are defending. This ‘constitution’ is ignored and the last thing the federal member states could care about.
My evidence?

Article (50) - (a), (g) were flagrantly broken by the Federal Members.

This constitution is a mere joke that serves no duty but to be an imaginary exposition, never implemented.

2)I never said that a leader with a ‘cult of personality’ should take power.
———I believe that Clan-politics and a Clan-Dictatorship are the exact same thing. If are referring to Barre, then he was no different to the current leaders in somalia, focused on their own clan.

3)You talk about a Supreme Court to mediate and act as a neutral...
———The Constitution clearly mentions that in articles 108, 109 that the constitution must be upheld in a Constitutional court and as mentioned in (a)(g) of Article 50 must cooperate. We saw slaughter 3 days ago in Tawfiq District between puntland and Galmudug, what constitution was preserved?


GTFOH!

we don't have a complete constitution yet so I don't see why your critiquing nothingness currently, once the FGS comes to the table with the federal states (after FGS has been elected 1p1v) then they can work towards a representative federal constitution with a proper balance of power and checks and balances, were currently in a transitory period last elected president was this guy

after 1p1v, and rational constitutional agreement between states and government a proper constitution will be formed

 

[General Asad]

That “invasion” was nessecary to restore peace in the terrorist filled south, and established some
Level of stability and brought back some institutions, although hasn’t been built off yet as we still as a fgs only control 2 blocks, this wasn’t really Ethiopia per say but US coordinated which we needed the US to help us establish a government, prior to this it was warlord territory

What peace was restored? The south is

i can understand barres need for military aid from american especially in the ogaden war, but does he really need to sound this pathetic? to give him credit though he was giong up and against agianst a coalition of communist states with unlimited support from ussr.
ogaden war was a mistake, barre should've given wslf more weapons and support rather than going to a war which our victory depended on how fast we could defeat the enemy before we ran out of supplies.

Rule #1 of war: if you can't fight 99% of the war yourself, then you shouldn't be fighting. Its fine to ask for little assistance, however Barre seems to come across as entitled. Why should they help you ? He overestimated the 'alliance' and assumed they would their army to help fight his own fight. Why drain your military funding and put your country's reputation on the line, if you're to bank on another country's military? Pathetic indeed.

 

[General Asad]

i can understand barres need for military aid from american especially in the ogaden war, but does he really need to sound this pathetic? to give him credit though he was giong up and against agianst a coalition of communist states with unlimited support from ussr.
ogaden war was a mistake, barre should've given wslf more weapons and support rather than going to a war which our victory depended on how fast we could defeat the enemy before we ran out of supplies.

Rule #1 of war: if you can't fight 99% of the war yourself, then you shouldn't be fighting. Its fine to ask for little assistance, however Barre seems to come across as entitled. Why should they help you ? He overestimated the 'alliance' and assumed they would their army to help fight his own fight. Why drain your military funding and put your country's reputation on the line, if you're to bank on another country's military? Pathetic indeed.

Any person can start a war with a country. If you can win the war is what makes or breaks the country.

 

[Tukraq]

What peace was restored? The south is

Rule #1 of war: if you can't fight 99% of the war yourself, then you shouldn't be fighting. Its fine to ask for little assistance, however Barre seems to come across as entitled. Why should they help you ? He overestimated the 'alliance' and assumed they would their army to help fight his own fight. Why drain your military funding and put your country's reputation on the line, if you're to bank on another country's military? Pathetic indeed.

there was a return of institutions in the south that weren't there before because of that joint mission

 

[General Asad]

there was a return of institutions in the south that weren't there before because of that joint mission

The root of the problem, was never solved. Involving foreigners to solve your problems is a doomed formula, so what long term solutions has this brought?

 

[Tukraq]

The root of the problem, was never solved. Involving foreigners to solve your problems is a doomed formula, so what long term solutions has this brought?

wasn't implemented fully they quit to soon, if AY went in full and secured the capital with the help off the US we would have rebounded quicker as a country, right now where still at 2 blocks

 

[Lord of Warshiekh]

we don't have a complete constitution yet so I don't see why your critiquing nothingness currently, once the FGS comes to the table with the federal states (after FGS has been elected 1p1v) then they can work towards a representative federal constitution with a proper balance of power and checks and balances, were currently in a transitory period last elected president was this guy

after 1p1v, and rational constitutional agreement between states and government a proper constitution will be formed

Sharmake (AUN) didn’t govern a federal government. A republic, yes, but corrupt federalism is a failure

 

[Tukraq]

Sharmake (AUN) didn’t govern a federal government. A republic, yes, but corrupt federalism is a failure

once it democratized i.e. 1p1v no such thing as corruption unless they somehow rig the voting, the people decide who they decide which is the whole point of giving the power to the people, whether its good or bad is subjective, however more people voted one way and thus the majority would see it as positive

 

[Lord of Warshiekh]

once it democratized i.e. 1p1v no such thing as corruption unless they somehow rig the voting, the people decide who they decide which is the whole point of giving the power to the people, whether its good or bad is subjective, however more people voted one way and thus the majority would see it as positive

A 1m1v can happen only if the federal states are dissolved, do you agree?

 

[General Asad]

wasn't implemented fully they quit to soon, if AY went in full and secured the capital with the help off the US we would have rebounded quicker as a country, right now where still at 2 blocks

Even if it was implemented and AY had created some sort of organization and cohesion in the south, his efforts would have been destroyed overnight because of clannism. We can't come together as a country because we never had collective unity (somaliweyn) before 1960. That primary issue is that we never had that togtherness nationalists insist we had. Abdirashid Ali Sharmake tried to overcome that and tried to unite us through common relations but look how that happened. We are weaker united and stronger divided, if that makes sense.

 

[Tukraq]

A 1m1v can happen only if the federal states are dissolved, do you agree?

no, it happens in the US and we have federal states, structure should be nation wide 1P*(not man but person)1V for president, however all representatives should be 1p1v with regards to states and should represent states so thats basically the parliament in a nutshell coming from state votes, then regional positions should all be 1p1v also with regards to their constituency, so no federal states are crucial in the system in giving every citizen more power

 

[Tukraq]

Even if it was implemented and AY had created some sort of organization and cohesion in the south, his efforts would have been destroyed overnight because of clannism. We can't come together as a country because we never had collective unity (somaliweyn) before 1960. That primary issue is that we never had that togtherness nationalist insist we had. Abdirashid Ali Sharmake tried to overcome that and tried to unite us through common relations but look how that happened. We are weaker united and stronger divided, if that makes sense.

the idea would be securing the capital, then bringing in the rest of the country through peaceful means(like you said with the sharmarke way), from there which would be not as difficult, however with out a secure capital the FGS is severely handicapped

 

[GBTarmy]

Summary:
This is a memo written from an official with the UN Mission in Ethiopia and Eritrea in 2006 detailing a meeting with Jenday Frazer, the Bush Administration's Assistant Secretary of State for African affairs. It is interesting in that it undercuts Bush administration officials' later assertions that they did not encourage Ethiopia to invade Somalia in 2006. It also reveals a bias on the part of Frazer in favor of Ethiopia and against Eritrea that many including former US Ambassador to the UN John Bolton believe set back difficult negotiations on the border dispute between the two countries. The document has not been released until now.

View attachment 84245 View attachment 84246 View attachment 84247 View attachment 84248 View attachment 84249

It almost 2020, 29 years since they put down the arms embargo, and we still don't have any peace. Deliberately making us weaker than stringer so they can steal our land, resources, and waters. Its time we outmaneuver this embargo and take back our docile and pacified country (Thread coming soon).

Hence why Ethiopia got the green light to invade Xamar, certain ppl here want to push another agenda though.

 

[General Asad]

1979: Conversation with Siad

Summary: WHEN I MET WITH PRESIDENT SIAD AT VILLA SOMALIA AUGUST 13, THE CENTERPIECE OF OUR CONVERSATION WAS, AS USUAL, HIS CONTINUED DESIRE FOR US MILITARY ASSISTANCE AND HIS DISAPPOINTMENT THAT WE HAVE NOT RESPONDED FAVORABLY TO HIS APPEALS FOR HELP. WE ALSO DISCUSSED HIS RECENT TRIP TO NORTH AFRICA AND KENYANSOMALI RELATIONS (SEPTELS). SIAD SHOWED NO SIGNS OF WEAR AND TEAR FROM HIS EXTENSIVE TRAVELS OF THE PAST TWO MONTHS, FIRST UP-COUNTRY IN SOMALIA, THEN TO THE GULF STATES AND IRAQ, AND CONFIDENTIAL.

FINALLY TO NORTH AFRICA, AFTER THE OAU CONFERENCE AT MONROVIA. HE APPEARED FIT AND WAS AS VIGOROUS AS EVER. 3. HE SAID SOMALIA CONTINUED TO FACE SERIOUS ECONOMIC PROBLEMS WHICH HAVE BEEN EXACERBATED BY THE FACT THAT "SOME GULF STATES," UNHAPPY WITH HIS STAND REGARDING Sheryl P. Walter Declassified/Released US Department of State EO Systematic Review 20 Mar 2014 Sheryl P. Walter Declassified/Released US Department of State EO Systematic Review 20 Mar 2014 EGYPT, ARE STINTING ON ECONOMIC AID TO SOMALIA. HOWEVER, HE WENT ON, THE SECURITY THREAT POSED BY SOVIET-SUPPORTED HOSTILE REGIMES IN ETHIOPIA AND ADEN WAS SOMALIA'S BIGGEST PROBLEM. HE THAN SAID, "I AM DISILLUSIONED, VERY FRANKLY, ABOUT THE SLOWNESS OF WASHINGTON TO UNDERSTAND OUR PROBLEM, TO HELP US WITHSTAND OUR ENEMIES." 4. HE EXPRESSED DISAPPOINTMENT IN THE CONTENTS OF ASSISTANT SECRETARY MOOSE'S RECENT LETTER TO HIM. HE SAID HE HAD RESPONDED TO OUR CONCERN ABOUT THE OGADEN ("WE HAVE BEEN THROUGH ALL THE TRIALS YOU HAVE MADE FOR US"). HE WAS "CONVINCED" WE WERE INFLUENCED BY DISINFORMATION THAT WAS BEING DISSEMINATED BY HIS ADVERSARIES. IF WE WANTED THE TRUE PICTURE OF WHAT WAS HAPPENING IN THE OGADEN, WE SHOULD GET FIRST-HAND INFORMATION BY SENDING A DELEGATION THERE "TO SEE FOR THEMSELVES." 5. I TOLD HIM THAT WE KNEW THE DIFFICULTIES HE FACED AND WERE AWARE OF THE COMPLEXITY OF THE OGADEN PROBLEM. HOWEVER, WE CONTINUED TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT THE LEVEL OF VIOLENCE IN THE OGADEN. WASHINGTON HAD MADE IT CLEAR WHY WE COULD NOT ENTER INTO A MILITARY SUPPLY RELATIONSHIP WITH SOMALIA. HOWEVER, THE EXTENT OF OUR HUMANITARIAN AID AND OUR DEVELOPMENT ASSISTANCE PROGRAM MANIFESTED OUR WISH FOR CLOSER TIES AND WILLINGNESS TO HELP THE SOMALI PEOPLE.


CONFIDENTIAL IN RESONSE HE SOUNDED HIS FAMILIAR REFRAIN THAT ECONOMIC AID WOULD BE OF NO USE TO SOMALIA IF IT LOST ITS INDEPENDENCE. HE SAID HE WAS "STILL APPEALING TO THE CARTER ADMINISTRATION NOT TO LET US DOWN AND TO CONSIDER OUR SITUATION." 7. EARLIER IN THE CONVERSATION HE CLAIMED NIMERI AND SADAT HAD AGREED THAT THE BEST WASY TO BRING GRIEF TO THE SOVIETS WAS TO KEEP THEM "MIRED DONW IN THE QUICKSAND OF ERITREA AND THE OGADEN." HE SAID THE US SHOULD GIVE "INDIRECT SUPPORT" TO THE ERITREAN AND OGADENI LIBERATION FORCES, FOR FAILURE BY THE SOVIETS AND CUBANS TO WIN MILITARILY WOULD RESULT IN FRUSTRATION AND DMINISHED INFLUENCE FOR THEM IN THE HORN AND ULTIMATELY TO POLITICAL SOLUTIONS FOR THE ERITREA AND OGADEN CONFLICTS. 8. AFTER I HAD MADE THE ARGUMENT THAT CONTINUED VIOLENCE AND INSTABILITY IN THE HORN WERE LIKELY TO ENSURE CONTINUATION OF THE SOVIET/CUBAN MILITARY INTERVENTION, HE REPLIED "I KNOW THIS ARGUMENT OF WASHINGTON, BUT I DON'T AGREE." HE SAID THE NATURE OF THE TERRAIN AND THE WILL OF THE INHABITANTS OF THE TWO AREAS PRECLUDED SUCCESSFUL MILITARY OPRATIONS BY THE ETHIOPIANS, SOVIETS AND CUBANS. AND HE INSISTED THAT IT WAS LOGICAL THAT "IF THE SOVIETS DON'T SUCCEED, THEY WILL GO AWAY." 9. COMMENT: ALTHOUGH THE REGIONAL COOPERATION PLAN DESCRIBED BY SOMALI AMBASSADOR ADDOU IN WASHINGTON MAY HAVE BEEN A FIGMENT OF ADDOU'S IMAGINATION, ADDOU SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN FOLLOWINGINSTRUCTIONS WHEN HE TOLD DICK MOOSE THAT THE BEST WAY TO BRING MENGISTU TO THE BARGAININ TABLE AND TO GET THE SOVIETS OUT OF ETHIOPIA WOULD BE TO MAINTAIN PRESSURE ON THE ETHIOPIAN FORCES IN ERITREA AND THE OGADEN. IT MAY BE THAT SIAD'S FAILURE TO OBTAIN US MILITARY AID FROM US HAS LED SIAD TO TRY TO CONVINCE US THAT OUR INTERSTS WILL BEST BE SERVED NOT BY AN END TO THE OGADEN CONFLICT BUT, ON THE CONTRARY, BY A BETTER ARMED, MORE EFFECTIVE INSURGENT MILITARY FORCE.

 

[Ras]

"worse case scenario is that icu takes over somalia"
i really love how the US is more concerned with who takes controll of somalia rather than stopping the ongoing war.

I wouldn't even mind that if they were serious about someone taking control of this shit show. That would result in the consolidation of power.

However, from their actions is obvious they don't even want that.

They already realized they can never fully control us so they prefer chaos than having another power appear in this strategic region.

 

[Ras]

after FGS has been elected 1p1v

That should be the number one priority of the government but why does it feel like they're stalling?

 

[General Asad]

That should be the number one priority of the government but why does it feel like they're stalling?

They're stalling because they know deep down inside they wouldn't get voted back in. There is also the insecurity of citizens thinking for themselves and choosing who they want to represent them.

 

[Ras]

They're stalling because they know deep down inside they wouldn't get voted back in. There is also the insecurity of citizens thinking for themselves and choosing who they want to represent them.

Without a proper election they'll have no mandate and that means their word means nothing.

They won't have the public's permission to do their job properly and will be stuck in an endless loop of squabbles with opportunist and shit stirrers (aka warlords who want the status quo).

If they have a mandate they could put forward all the policies they want and arrest those that try to get in their way and people can't use the excuse of a qabil taking over since the whole country voted.

Even just a couple million voting would be enough for a mandate.

Just secure voting in the top 5-8 towns. Make AMISON work for their pay.

 

[Tukraq]

Without a proper election they'll have no mandate and that means their word means nothing.

They won't have the public's permission to do their job properly and will be stuck in an endless loop of squabbles with opportunist and shit stirrers (aka warlords who want the status quo).

If they have a mandate they could put forward all the policies they want and arrest those that try to get in their way and people can't use the excuse of a qabil taking over since the whole country voted.

Even just a couple million voting would be enough for a mandate.

Just secure voting in the top 5-8 towns. Make AMISON work for their pay.

she means the current regime wouldn't want it as they obviously won't be reelected in a 1P1V that we haven't had since pre barre, we have no tangible grasp of the publics opinions who by the way are a different demographic(mostly women and young), pretty much anyone can win the election which would put the current regime(who hasn't ever won a public election and thus dosent even know if the people want them/most likely not) in a position that would be worse for them but better for the country

 

[Ras]

she means the current regime wouldn't want it as they obviously won't be reelected in a 1P1V that we haven't had since pre barre, we have no tangible grasp of the publics opinions who by the way are a different demographic(mostly women and young), pretty much anyone can win the election which would put the current regime(who hasn't ever won a public election and thus dosent even know if the people want them/most likely not) in a position that would be worse for them but better for the country

yh that was my original point. My second posts you quoted explains why I think it's necessary if you genuinely want to fix the country.

If FGS just wants power then let them have it. If it still the same bs after their next fake election the beoble have a legit reason to overthrow them and the UN can't say shit.

We'll win either way in the end. Just wished Farmaajo & co realized this but it doesn't seem like it.