Lack of great monuments in SSA

[Internet Nomad]

Is there a single example of a single sub-saharan nation in all of Africa that produced architectural works on par with these various examples?

It cant be lack of wealth or power or even ignorance as Africa was connected with the global market.

What is the reason?

It can’t be they didnt have taste for beautiful architecture as there many builds that look amazing but was the reason that there was no major architectural works done.

Is this all we really got?

 

[Internet Nomad]

For those who think it was a lack of creativity or taste.

 

[Aurelian]

Is there a single example of a single sub-saharan nation in all of Africa that produced architectural works on par with these various examples?
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It cant be lack of wealth or power or even ignorance as Africa was connected with the global market.

What is the reason?

It can’t be they didnt have taste for beautiful architecture as there many builds that look amazing but was the reason that there was no major architectural works done.

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Is this all we really got?

Decentralization, lack of hierarchy, extremely low dense in population compared to the center of the worlds e.g. middle east.

Europe is filled with castles because it was very easy to navigate from Western Europe to Eastern part of the continent. Look at the "Holy ""Roman"" Empire"

If you don't have a strategic location with good factors for urbanization and supporting large human population, you wont have any of these. Each location you provided was either an agriculture location for thousand of years or have large population in tiny place.

For Japan, their design and alphabet came from China, a country that had all the factors for civilization. SSA is not good for any of these except in the western africa, who had their great empires, mostly after having contact with the outside world for trade.

 

[Idilinaa]

Comes down to geography really and availability of building material, covered it a bit here:

Somalia's Historical Geographical Advantages over Sub-Saharan Africa: (Summary) Part 1

I was asked to make this one last thread that i had planned, before i exit. I shared this video to @Midas in another thread, but then i came to realize that many of the setbacks and geographical disadvantages underscored in this video for Sub-Saharan Africa does not apply to Somalia at all...

www.somalispot.com

- Geology: Somalia unlike other African countries has a geological landscape in many areas that allowed for available stone quarries that can be used for construction like limestone, granite and sandstone for building purposes and cement production. Whereas other African countries in many areas are characterized by laterite soils and sedimentary rock formations rather than extensive granite or limestone deposits and opted historically to use mud , adobe and timber are mostly available to them as building materials. Similar with Ethiopia their quarrying industry is not as developed as in Somalia, especially in rural areas. That's why the homes of Somalis are much better constructed than the slums you see prevail in different parts of Africa. Mentioned this another thread with examples: https://www.somalispot.com/threads/...-with-indian-slums.173349/page-2#post-4170103

It is similar to the reason as to why people ask about why China's lack of Historical buildings: It's so happens to do with building materials and construction.

Talked about it briefly in another thread.

The biggest reasons i've seen given is that the cultural revolution destroyed many of the monuments of China.

I was inclined to believe this after i saw what they did to the great wall. But then i realised a big chunk of the wall is actually just rammed earth,clay and tatchwork they had to continue to reinforce and only a small section of it is made of stone.


It is more than likely as you suspected, most chinese buildings and houses where built out of wood and some out of mudbricks. This could also be the reason why there wasn't any grand structures built out of stone.

I am reminded by the Chinese man that was captured along with the British pirate in Mogadishu during the early 1700s and acted as his interpreter. He was shown the monuments in Mogadishu and was asked about it.

He said ''He had not seen anything equal to it in all of his life and he believed Strangers from all parts of the world would travel to see them'' i feel this is an admission that there is lack of similar structures in China

 

[Midas]

Decentralization, lack of hierarchy, extremely low dense in population compared to the center of the worlds e.g. middle east.

Europe is filled with castles because it was very easy to navigate from Western Europe to Eastern part of the continent. Look at the "Holy ""Roman"" Empire"
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If you don't have a strategic location with good factors for urbanization and supporting large human population, you wont have any of these. Each location you provided was either an agriculture location for thousand of years or have large population in tiny place.

For Japan, their design and alphabet came from China, a country that had all the factors for civilization. SSA is not good for any of these except in the western africa, who had their great empires, mostly after having contact with the outside world for trade.

Yeah exactly. This why I'm a proponent to some extent of geographic determinism. When I realized trying to find ancient cvilizations,literature,etc. Wouldn't really happen becuase of these factors. I became less interested in africam history. Since I would find anything anicent/medieval which is what I find intresting.

 

[Midas]

Comes down to geography really and availability of building material, covered it a bit here:

Somalia's Historical Geographical Advantages over Sub-Saharan Africa: (Summary) Part 1

I was asked to make this one last thread that i had planned, before i exit. I shared this video to @Midas in another thread, but then i came to realize that many of the setbacks and geographical disadvantages underscored in this video for Sub-Saharan Africa does not apply to Somalia at all...

www.somalispot.com

It is similar to the reason as to why people ask about why China's lack of Historical buildings: It's so happens to do with building materials and construction.
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Talked about it briefly in another thread.

Yeah this was a major bummer to learn about. You'll still find massive buddhist status and stuff and pagoda. But there aren't like thousand yearold temples or churches like in the rest of the world. The place china really shines is written records. And antique objects

 

[Idilinaa]

Yeah this was a major bummer to learn about. You'll still find massive buddhist status and stuff and pagoda. But there aren't like thousand yearold temples or churches like in the rest of the world. The place china really shines is written records. And antique objects

They used stone and other minerals for that but didn't use it for home construction or temples. So it wasn't the most widely available building material everyone could afford to use.

Yeah exactly. This why I'm a proponent to some extent of geographic determinism. When I realized trying to find ancient cvilizations,literature,etc. Wouldn't really happen becuase of these factors. I became less interested in africam history. Since I would find anything anicent/medieval which is what I find intresting.

Most of Europe for a very long period after the fall of Rome didn't feature any real grand castles made of stone. During the early middle ages they call the ''Dark Ages''

and the stone churches , which were the only buildings(beside the manor) made of stone was reduced in size as well.

People lived in in simple dwellings made of thatch, waddle, mud and wood.

So it also has to do with the growth of wealth, and expansion of trade and urbanization.

Because it's not like Europe's geography changed when they transitioned. So geography is not the sole determinant but it is a big factor that either aid or prevent you.

 

[ilmoweyn]

There's the ruins of Great ZImbabwe made of stone and impressive in size

extremely low dense in population compared to the center of the worlds e.g. middle east.

Adding onto to this, in the 10th century Africa only had 30 million people sparsely populating the entire continent so there was no need to build upwards, most creations sprawled sideways.

Although, Ethiopia has some impressive castles (Palace of Emperor Fasilides, Ethiopia) but its obviously Western-styled

 

[Internet Nomad]

What do you think allowed for yemenis who live just across the red sea to be able to develop these impressive castles and forts. Despite living in similar environments as us.

 

[Midas]

What do you think allowed for yemenis who live just across the red sea to be able to develop these impressive castles and forts. Despite living in similar environments as us.

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I mean it's not the same though? You had to build out of stone or clay into the mountain side in yemen. Nobody is gonna use wood to build ther homes. One bug advantage to that is that these things don't decay as easily. If you look at old pics and explores visiting somalia they mention castles . The sayyids building of these giant forts wasn't some new innovation it had always been a common practice in somalia. You see this with the citadel in gonderseh which survived. Yemen is like that for a lot of its stone buidlings



Also a lot of these places got renovated and rebuilt when the ottomans where in conrrol

 

[Aurelian]

What do you think allowed for yemenis who live just across the red sea to be able to develop these impressive castles and forts. Despite living in similar environments as us.

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You'd need money and resources to build these with their help, unless you would enslave them like Peter the great building saint Petersberg.