Yeah this was before I learned more about Punt. The RasDemi guy is indeed a troll
Land of Punt
- Thread starter Zak12
- Start date
High grade and low grade isn't a difference based on frankincense species , it's the colour and texture of it they grade.
There can be high/low grades of carteri and frereana, the highest grade of carteri look yellow and fairly transparent. The highest grade of frereana has a striated shape and tends to be fairly translucent.
I see. But its seemingly still a theory from second hand sources. They look at the “‘ntiyw” variety mentioned in hieroglyphics and assumed its the same. I don't think there is actual evidence of those species of frankincense being found in Egypt beyond the word of some old archeologists.
And I want to talk about the baboons again lol. I know you said the results of that study were inconclusive but looking deeper into it, it actually says that the mummified baboon they tested is phylogenetically closest to baboons that now live in the Adulis region meaning the Punt-Adulis connection is legit. They tested baboons from all over including Papio hamadrayas from Somalia, Djibouti, and Ethiopia, as well as other baboons from all over Africa and the Middle East. The mummified baboon belongs to a clade that is only present in baboons from Eritrea and eastern Sudan.
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The main Somali Y lineage E-Z813 is confirmed to have been in Eritrea/Sudan region during the Bronze Age. We have bunch of Egyptians on that clade that diverged off from us ~4000 years ago which is Middle Kingdom Egypt era.
The DNA was fragile and at they only had 1 usable baboon mummy sample out of the 10.
The team that did the study said this afterwards:
So we'll have to wait and see when they make more tests on imports. For now it's inconclusive
My prediction is that it might reveal they were speaking about multiple locations at different times when sourcing products from. That Punt covered a wider umbrella geography from Eastern Sudan to Somalia.
This is the current concensus among archeologists as well I believe. Agreed, we will have to wait and see.
And what about the frankincense? I still think its only a theory since I can't find evidence of it being tested to actually confirm they are the same trees as in Somalia.
The frankincense holds more significance as a product, because in the Egyptian reliefs they show them take it directly from the place they imported from. Whereas other imports could have been sourced from somewhere else and not from punt.
Both found species found together in hashepsuts tomb is the same ones found together in Northern Somalia and only 1 out of the specie is found in Somalia and the other is also found in Oman.
If they can pin-point the genetic genome of a plant specie to a tree that can create better certainty
If it was taken from Eastern Sudan/Eritrea, you would have expected to find B.papyrifera specie , seeing how widely dispersed it is in that location.
Right but is it really okay to assume they are the same species simply off of hieroglypgics and reliefs? I don't want to come off as too skeptical or pedantic but I want to know if there are other confirmations.
Its from the same expedition that is depicted in the relief and in the tomb its says its from punt. It's not an assumption it's pretty direct.
Botanical scientist determined what the species they found in the tomb was.
Yeah I read that too but its from a second hand source. One guy saw depictions of frankincense trees from thousands of years ago and made a theory on what tree it was, and thought it looked like frankincense trees in Oman.
Its not depicitions of frankinsence trees, its based on plant specimens they found inside her tomb, similarly to how they found baboon specimens in another.
They the plant remains they found are of those two species mentioned.
They checked the tombs themselves? Could you post a source for that please? In this text
At the bottom of the page, it shows the number 7 citation which is sourced from Lucas book 1945 and I don't see any mention of checking the tombs themselves meaning its a secondary source.
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You qouted the text yourself where they mention it
''Boswellia carteri and B.frereana These species have been found Egyptian tombs''
They have found them in not only Hatshepsut tombs but thet have found frankinscense plant remains in Tutankamuns tomb as well.
But yeah botanical scientists analyzed the specimens they found to identify what species they belonged to.
I edited my post a bit. The text I posted cites (citation 7) from A. Lucas's 1945 book. Is there anywhere on there that states the tombs were actually checked? Because if not then its a secondary source.
He checked the tombs in the same source.
Many different sources say the same about the type of species found in Tutankhamun's tomb.
That other sources simply says frankincense and Boswellia. You sure this is fereana and carteri we are talking about? The only reference to Somalia's frankincense type is from those reliefs
Yeah in the same source he talks about the species he mentions that he examined the gem resins found inside the tomb.
It was Schoff that mentions the species. The author himself considers the gum resin to possibly be frankincense but doesn't mentions what specific type it is
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