Legalize all drugs! Khat is part of the culture

[Veteran]

First of all if you actually knew how to read my statement had nothing to do with Khat having the same addiction levels as cocaine

''I didn't say that duudeee!''
Explain this though.

It isn’t a light stimulant best believe that stuff is like cocaine, explain these adeeros with their jaws twisted. Don’t be foolish.

You jumped on the argument claiming that it isn’t addictive, which is probably one of the most bullshit thing I’ve ever heard.

A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man"

You’re the one who’s mentally retarded by using an outdated review on khat where the data wasn’t efficient

Ceeb! Maxa kuu daxay maa walantahay.
I provided a long list of sources, if you knew how to read..
Wait, you're mentally disabled sorry about that I forgot.

1. Yemen: Turning over a New Leaf: Khat Chewing Is on the Rise in Yemen, Raising Concerns about the Health and Social Consequences". Bulletin of the World Health Organization. 86(10): 741–42. doi:10.2471/BLT.08.011008. PMC 2649518. PMID 18949206. Retrieved 9 January 2014.
2. ^ Jump up to:a b Nutt, D.; King, L.A.; Saulsbury, C.; Blakemore, Colin (March 2007). "Development of a rational scale to assess the harm of drugs of potential misuse". Lancet. 369 (9566): 1047–53. doi:10.1016/S0140-6736(07)60464-4. PMID 17382831.
3. ^ Jump up to:a b c d Manghi, Rita Annoni; Broers, Barbara; Khan, Riaz; Benguettat, Djamel; Khazaal, Yasser; Zullino, Daniele Fabio (2009). "Haight-Ashbury Free Medical Clinic". Journal of Psychoactive Drugs. 41 (1): 1–10. doi:10.1080/02791072.2009.10400669. PMID 19455904.

Considering that you throw around logical fallacies, I should have expected this to be honest.

 

[Xasusi]

Khat is used because people are uneducated and poor. Educate them so they transition to cocaine, like us europeans.

 

[Veteran]

Prove to me how khat has any health benefits and that it posses no addictive traits within users and I’ll give you a cookie.

‘My data sample is larger than yours’ what is this a **** measuring comp, yet you’re spewing childish crap about me being a petulant child? Who’s the child now?

I never claimed it was healthy you braindead f*ck, re-read what I wrote.
You claimed it was as strong as cocaine here's the evidence:

It isn’t a light stimulant best believe that stuff is like cocaine, explain these adeeros with their jaws twisted.

Yaab!
Waar niinkan daawo, maxa ku dacay saxiib madax xanuun ma ku haaysa.

My data sample is larger than yours’ what is this a **** measuring comp, yet you’re spewing childish crap about me being a petulant child? Who’s the child now?

You're still a child if you don't understand that the more legitimate and larger source list you have makes a point more valid.

 

[Noobmaster699]

I never claimed it was healthy you braindead f*ck, re-read what I wrote.
You claimed it was as strong as cocaine here's the evidence:

Yaab!
Waar niinkan daawo, maxa ku dacay saxiib madax xanuun ma ku haaysa.

You're still a child if you don't understand that the more legitimate and larger source list you have makes a point more valid.

Walahi you’re retarded, I said it is like cocaine stop twisting my words no one stated the potency. If you were able to read what I was actually trying to say then maybe you’d understand instead of going full keyboard warrior.
Because one has similarities doesn’t necessarily equate to the addictive levels with which you’re trying to claim.

WHO states that it’s addiction levels isn’t to quote ‘severely high’ of course nothing I’ve stated isn’t false either.

 

[Glizzo da Goat]

Legalize, tax and regulate all of the drugs. Use the tax money to then help addicts. Use the example of Khat, why do so many people do it? What causes someone to turn to it. Imagine a rehab for it instead of useless addicts sitting and chewing. Once you put something in public you can control it.

That would leave me unemployed sxb

 

[Veteran]

Walahi you’re retarded, I said it is like cocaine stop twisting my words no one stated the potency. If you were able to read what I was actually trying to say then maybe you’d understand instead of going full keyboard warrior.
Because one has similarities doesn’t necessarily equate to the addictive levels with which you’re trying to claim.

WHO states that it’s addiction levels isn’t to quote ‘severely high’ of course nothing I’ve stated isn’t false either.

@Noobmaster699
Adress the sources
Do you claim all of them are incorrect compared to your measly two illegitimate sources.
Anyway, whether or not it is or not we don't need to go back and forth forever.

Here is my other reply, if you missed it.
You said:
First of all if you actually knew how to read my statement had nothing to do with Khat having the same addiction levels as cocaine
I said:
''I didn't say that duudeee!''
Explain this though.
You said:
It isn’t a light stimulant best believe that stuff is like cocaine, explain these adeeros with their jaws twisted. Don’t be foolish.
You said:
You jumped on the argument claiming that it isn’t addictive, which is probably one of the most bullshit thing I’ve ever heard.
I said:
A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man"
You said:
You’re the one who’s mentally retarded by using an outdated review on khat where the data wasn’t efficient
I said:
Ceeb! Maxa kuu daxay maa walantahay.
I provided a long list of sources, if you knew how to read..
Wait, you're mentally disabled sorry about that I forgot.

1. Yemen: Turning over a New Leaf: Khat Chewing Is on the Rise in Yemen, Raising Concerns about the Health and Social Consequences". Bulletin of the World Health Organization. 86(10): 741–42. doi:10.2471/BLT.08.011008. PMC 2649518. PMID 18949206. Retrieved 9 January 2014.
2. ^ Jump up to:a b Nutt, D.; King, L.A.; Saulsbury, C.; Blakemore, Colin (March 2007). "Development of a rational scale to assess the harm of drugs of potential misuse". Lancet. 369 (9566): 1047–53. doi:10.1016/S0140-6736(07)60464-4. PMID 17382831.
3. ^ Jump up to:a b c d Manghi, Rita Annoni; Broers, Barbara; Khan, Riaz; Benguettat, Djamel; Khazaal, Yasser; Zullino, Daniele Fabio (2009). "Haight-Ashbury Free Medical Clinic". Journal of Psychoactive Drugs. 41 (1): 1–10. doi:10.1080/02791072.2009.10400669. PMID 19455904.

I said:
Considering that you throw around logical fallacies, I should have expected this to be honest.

 

[Noobmaster699]

A

@Noobmaster699
Adress the sources
Do you claim all of them are incorrect compared to your measly two illegitimate sources.
Anyway, whether or not it is or not we don't need to go back and forth forever.

Illegitimate sources comprised from this WHO assessment - https://www.who.int/medicines/areas/quality_safety/4.4KhatCritReview.pdf

(34 ECDD 2006/4.4) Page 7 Toxic effects of Khat use which provides the same information my links provided.

Khat Induced psychosis (page 8) Which then again backs up my points on what I was trying to talk about with those other links.

WHO Review History: The WHO Expert Committee on Drug Dependence (ECDD) and other UN bodies reviewed khat at earlier occasions. The Advisory Committee on the Traffic in Opium and Other Dangerous Drugs of the League of Nations discussed on the subject in 1933, but no action was taken. On request of the Commission on Narcotics Drugs (CND), the Expert Committee on Addiction-Producing Drugs (as the ECDD was named at the time) reported in its 12th report (1962) that clarification on the chemical and pharmacological identification of the active principles of khat was needed before a sound medical appraisal of the chronic use of khat could be made [1]. No referral was made to a study on the effects. In its 13th report (1964) the committee studied a report by the Secretariat on the medical aspects of the habitual chewing of khat leaves. It concluded "that the problems connected with khat and with the amphetamines should be considered in the same light because of the similarity of their medical effects, even though there are quantitative differences and specific socio-economic features; this is all the more desirable since the problems with respect to khat are confined at present to a few countries in one region" [2]. In 1971 CND recommended again to ECOSOC to ask WHO to review khat, and requested that the UN Narcotics Laboratory should undertake research on the chemistry of khat and its components. These studies were reported in a series of internal UN documents from 1974 through 1978 [3]. In 1978 an Expert group financed by the UN Fund for Drug Abuse Control convened to consider the botany and chemistry of khat [4]. However, in the reports of ECDD no review of khat could be found after 1971. In 1983 an international conference on khat took place in Madagascar [5]. In 2002 the 33rd ECDD pre-reviewed khat and concluded that there was sufficient information on khat to justify a critical review [6].


https://assets.publishing.service.g...uploads/attachment_data/file/116260/occ95.pdf

(Her Majesty’s Revenue & Customs (HMRC) data, 2011) Page 5 - The principal alkaloid is cathinone, known to be more powerful than the secondary alkaloid, cathine (Kennedy, 1987). Cathinone affects the central nervous system in a manner “like a mild amphetamine” (Graziani et al., 2008; Zaghloul et al. 2003). Cathinone degrades rapidly post-harvest, affecting potency; efficient transportation is thus essential, and transport technologies have been the critical determinant of the international market for khat.

(The potency varies on the Cathinone levels the higher the levels the more potent it is. That backs up my point on it being similar to cocaine varying the dosages whether or not the potency is high or not.)

3. Regulations and legislation P21 - “The Committee reviewed the data on khat and determined that the potential for abuse and dependence is low. The level of abuse and threat to public health is not significant enough to warrant international control. Therefore, the Committee did not recommend the scheduling of khat.” (WHO, 2006)

 

[Noobmaster699]

''I didn't say that duudeee!''
Explain this though.


A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man"

Ceeb! Maxa kuu daxay maa walantahay.
I provided a long list of sources, if you knew how to read..
Wait, you're mentally disabled sorry about that I forgot.

1. Yemen: Turning over a New Leaf: Khat Chewing Is on the Rise in Yemen, Raising Concerns about the Health and Social Consequences". Bulletin of the World Health Organization. 86(10): 741–42. doi:10.2471/BLT.08.011008. PMC 2649518. PMID 18949206. Retrieved 9 January 2014.
2. ^ Jump up to:a b Nutt, D.; King, L.A.; Saulsbury, C.; Blakemore, Colin (March 2007). "Development of a rational scale to assess the harm of drugs of potential misuse". Lancet. 369 (9566): 1047–53. doi:10.1016/S0140-6736(07)60464-4. PMID 17382831.
3. ^ Jump up to:a b c d Manghi, Rita Annoni; Broers, Barbara; Khan, Riaz; Benguettat, Djamel; Khazaal, Yasser; Zullino, Daniele Fabio (2009). "Haight-Ashbury Free Medical Clinic". Journal of Psychoactive Drugs. 41 (1): 1–10. doi:10.1080/02791072.2009.10400669. PMID 19455904.

Considering that you throw around logical fallacies, I should have expected this to be honest.

With the Wikipedia Link you provided it also backs my claim -

Chemistry And Pharmacology -The stimulant effect of the plant was originally attributed to "katin", cathine, a phenethylamine-type substance isolated from the plant. However, the attribution was disputed by reports showing the plant extracts from fresh leaves contained another substance more behaviourally active than cathine. In 1975, the related alkaloid cathinone was isolated, and its absolute configuration was established in 1978. Cathinone is not very stable and breaks down to produce cathine and norephedrine. These chemicals belong to the PPA (phenylpropanolamine) family, a subset of the phenethylamines related to amphetamines and the catecholamines epinephrine and norepinephrine. In fact, cathinone and cathine have a very similar molecular structure to amphetamine. Khat is sometimes confused with methcathinone (also known as cat), a Schedule I substance that possesses a similar chemical structure to the khat plant's cathinone active component. However, both the side effects and the addictive properties of methcathinone are much stronger than those associated with khat use.

When khat leaves dry, the more potent chemical, cathinone, decomposes within 48 hours, leaving behind the milder chemical, cathine. Thus, harvesters transport khat by packaging the fresh leaves and stems in plastic bags or wrapping them in banana leaves to preserve their moisture and keep the cathinone potent. It is also common for them to sprinkle the plant with water frequently or use refrigeration during transportation.

When the khat leaves are chewed, cathine and cathinone are released and absorbed through the mucous membranes of the mouth as well as the lining of the stomach. The action of cathine and cathinone on the reuptake of epinephrine and norepinephrine has been demonstrated in lab animals, showing that one or both of these chemicals cause(s) the body to recycle these neurotransmitters more slowly, resulting in the wakefulness and insomnia associated with khat use.

Receptors for serotonin show a high affinity for cathinone, suggesting this chemical is responsible for feelings of euphoria associated with chewing khat. In mice, cathinone produces the same types of nervous pacing or repetitive scratching behaviours associated with amphetamines.The effects of cathinone peak after 15 to 30 minutes, with nearly 98% of the substance metabolised into norephedrine by the liver.

Cathine is somewhat less understood, being believed to act upon the adrenergic receptors causing the release of epinephrine and norepinephrine. It has a half-life of about three hours in humans. The medication bromocriptine can reduce cravings and withdrawal symptoms within 24 hours.

 

[Noobmaster699]

@Sharmaarke - Drug classification varies benzyl ethylamine (Khats chemical compound) Classified as a class C drug in the UK. (https://www.aleretoxicology.co.uk/en/home/support/drug-classifications.html) No one denies that smoking weed doesn't have a dramatic effect on your mental state rather the potency is debatable(Weed is Class C). Khat whether or not if its a 'Light stimulant' however you want to interpret it is not like drinking coffee. It's rather much like taking speed(methamphetamine powered form)/Cocaine.

 

[Zakeriya]

We need to not be brainwashed with Western liberal ideas and we need to follow Quran and Sunnah. Otherwise we are inviting disaster upon ourselves.

People are going to do it regardless. And you’re talking about foreign ideas. We have been chewing khat for centuries. As for khat it’s only bad in excess. If some body can manage themselves it’s their choice. You can’t impose your religious standards on another man.

 

[Omar del Sur]

People are going to do it regardless. And you’re talking about foreign ideas. We have been chewing khat for centuries. As for khat it’s only bad in excess. If some body can manage themselves it’s their choice. You can’t impose your religious standards on another man.

You can't impose your religious standards on another man?

I'm fine with that and I'm willing to accept that principle- as long as it's in the Quran or the Sunnah.

We have to follow Islam. If you're a Muslim, you also have to follow it and believe in it.

 

[Zakeriya]

You can't impose your religious standards on another man?

I'm fine with that and I'm willing to accept that principle- as long as it's in the Quran or the Sunnah.

We have to follow Islam. If you're a Muslim, you also have to follow it and believe in it.

Follow it but still look the other way on certain things. You can’t name 1 Muslim country that’s strictly by the diin, so the point is what do we over look. Even when we had a government we still did things that were deqan, even prior to that. Suddenly in 2019 we’re being strict about khat?

 

[Omar del Sur]

Follow it but still look the other way on certain things. You can’t name 1 Muslim country that’s strictly by the diin, so the point is what do we over look. Even when we had a government we still did things that were deqan, even prior to that. Suddenly in 2019 we’re being strict about khat?

So we need to follow parts of Islam but pick and choose which parts?

Is that what the Quran says? If the Quran says that, I'm willing to follow it but we have to go by what the Quran says. The Quran says:

O you who have believed, enter into Islam completely [and perfectly] and do not follow the footsteps of Satan. Indeed, he is to you a clear enemy.

-Surah Al-Baqarah 2:208

if the Quran said "pick and choose which parts of Islam you want to follow," I'd be very happy to follow that- but the Quran says otherwise. I love Islam and I want to follow Islam. I don't want to follow something else. If I didn't want to follow Islam, I wouldn't be a Muslim.

 

[Zakeriya]

So we need to follow parts of Islam but pick and choose which parts?

Is that what the Quran says? If the Quran says that, I'm willing to follow it but we have to go by what the Quran says. The Quran says:

O you who have believed, enter into Islam completely [and perfectly] and do not follow the footsteps of Satan. Indeed, he is to you a clear enemy.

-Surah Al-Baqarah 2:208

if the Quran said "pick and choose which parts of Islam you want to follow," I'd be very happy to follow that- but the Quran says otherwise. I love Islam and I want to follow Islam. I don't want to follow something else. If I didn't want to follow Islam, I wouldn't be a Muslim.

Ok than follow it your than sheikh, don’t oppose it on the khat chewer. I don’t do it but I’m not stopping anyone. And honestly think it’s a waste of time and money fighting it. You keep talking about the liberal west but saxiib that’s where we are. And over here conservatives have tried time and again to fight drugs. Never works, either jails full off people or an under ground population of addicts. Now we can pick and choose when we want to play sheikh and you can leave the western world and find a place where everyone has this belief and lives it by the book or compromise and find a solution.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Ok than follow it your than sheikh, don’t oppose it on the khat chewer. I don’t do it but I’m not stopping anyone. And honestly think it’s a waste of time and money fighting it. You keep talking about the liberal west but saxiib that’s where we are. And over here conservatives have tried time and again to fight drugs. Never works, either jails full off people or an under ground population of addicts. Now we can pick and choose when we want to play sheikh and you can leave the western world and find a place where everyone has this belief and lives it by the book or compromise and find a solution.

I can't just go on a plane and move to a Muslim country.

I don't understand how wanting to follow Islam is playing sheikh.

Also, the liberals absolutely are not right to say "let's let people do drugs" and be okay with it.

I live in a liberal area and people fear for their safety. It's not safe to let people do drugs and ignore it. People's safety is put in danger. I knew a man who was stabbed and killed by one of the dope fiends.

 

[Shmurda]

I commend this movement good sir