Location of Punt

[Canuck]

The Ancient-Egyptian Hieroglyphical Writing and Symbols are still alive and kicking in 2012 A.D.“ Generally , The Somalis use the "Sumado" ,the hieroglyphic Symbols in their traditional and social way of life . As example ,here ,to the right of the picture of Osiris ,we have the Hieroglyphical Symbols of the Issas clans in East Africa . extracted from the book: "The Search for the Ugaas in the Xeer Tradition” by the Dr. Ali Moussa Iye.Chief of Intercultural Dialogue Section in Unesco .(1995-2000).The Somalis use still now culturally these hieroglyphical for the social regulation like the Ancient-egyptians pharaohs .The Issa tribe is a branch of the Somali People in the Horn of Africa .They live mainly in Djibouti , in Ethiopia,Diridhabe region and the North of Somalia ,in Zayla ,Lughaya and Awdal region . In ancient-Egyptian language "Sumado" means"write the hieroglyphs" and also in somali ,"Sumado" means "the Hieroglyphs" and you can observ these somali current hieroglyphs, to the right of the Pharaoh's Picture above .

 

[Canuck]

Conclusion: Somalia is ,now, the Ancient land of Punt : Homeland of the Ancient-Egyptians . After ,the asiatics and europeans invasions in Ancient-Egypt , most of them came back and migrated to the south of the Nile , in the direction of the current Horn of Africa , Land of Punt ,Somali Peninsula .The road of frankincence and myrrh from Egypt to the Punt,"Pwenet " was not forgotten by the Ancient-Egyptians .

 

[Canuck]

http://somaliegyptianpuntite.blogspot.ca/

 

[MARAQ DIGAAG]

Suugo science !

 

[Grant]

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...tions-between-Somalis-and-ancient-Egypt/page3

Originally Posted by Amun
Actually i read some theory made by a Somali guy that Ancient Egyptians during the Roman invasion fled by ships to the land of Punt (Somalia, Ethiopia, Eritrea), therefore Horners are the true Ancient Egyptians

"Horners and Egyptians have a common ancient ancestry(Afro-asiatic language group) but this goes way beyond the ancient Egyptian civilisation. Ancient Egyptians are surely not the ancestors of modern day Horners."

 

[Prince Abubu]

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...tions-between-Somalis-and-ancient-Egypt/page3

Originally Posted by Amun
Actually i read some theory made by a Somali guy that Ancient Egyptians during the Roman invasion fled by ships to the land of Punt (Somalia, Ethiopia, Eritrea), therefore Horners are the true Ancient Egyptians

"Horners and Egyptians have a common ancient ancestry(Afro-asiatic language group) but this goes way beyond the ancient Egyptian civilisation. Ancient Egyptians are surely not the ancestors of modern day Horners."

Nuance isn't a strong Somali trait.

Ancient Egyptians descend from the same Neolithic Eurasian hunter-gatherer/farmers Cushites and North Africans descend from. That does not mean ancient Egyptians were Somali or vice versa.

 

[Prince Abubu]

View attachment 20673 The Ancient-Egyptian Hieroglyphical Writing and Symbols are still alive and kicking in 2012 A.D.“ Generally , The Somalis use the "Sumado" ,the hieroglyphic Symbols in their traditional and social way of life . As example ,here ,to the right of the picture of Osiris ,we have the Hieroglyphical Symbols of the Issas clans in East Africa . extracted from the book: "The Search for the Ugaas in the Xeer Tradition” by the Dr. Ali Moussa Iye.Chief of Intercultural Dialogue Section in Unesco .(1995-2000).The Somalis use still now culturally these hieroglyphical for the social regulation like the Ancient-egyptians pharaohs .The Issa tribe is a branch of the Somali People in the Horn of Africa .They live mainly in Djibouti , in Ethiopia,Diridhabe region and the North of Somalia ,in Zayla ,Lughaya and Awdal region . In ancient-Egyptian language "Sumado" means"write the hieroglyphs" and also in somali ,"Sumado" means "the Hieroglyphs" and you can observ these somali current hieroglyphs, to the right of the Pharaoh's Picture above .

Those are not hieroglyphs. They are Camel-marking symbols practiced by Dir Geeljires. Stop spreading misinformation.

 

[adaharari]

The nile valley civilisation was an Egypto-Cushitic-Berber one. The land of Punt may have stretched along the red sea coasts of southern Sudan, eritrea, Djibouti and Somalia. The Kerma Culture for instance, spoke an old east Cushitic language similar to Sidama.

All these countries have puntite like inscriptions, and the baboon analysis suggests it didnt go further south than Somaliland

 

[Grant]

Those are not hieroglyphs. They are Camel-marking symbols practiced by Dir Geeljires. Stop spreading misinformation.

Exactly. The same clan marks were in use at Namoratonga.

 

[Canuck]

Those are not hieroglyphs. They are Camel-marking symbols practiced by Dir Geeljires. Stop spreading misinformation.

Shut up

 

[Luna]

@adaharari are u gonna update that Cushitic language thread? You have revealed the languages yet.

 

[Grant]

Canuck,

Made-up qashin cannnot compete with the real deal. E-M78 originates in north Sudan and upper Egypt. The Samaales were part of the migration south.

22,400 BC

E-M35 :

somali origins E-M35

" data-medium-file="https://ancientsomali.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/e1b1broute.png?w=267&h=300" data-large-file="https://ancientsomali.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/e1b1broute.png?w=324" class="size-medium wp-image-147" title="E1b1bRoute" alt="somali origins E-M35" src="https://ancientsomali.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/e1b1broute.png?w=267&h=300" style="-x-ignore: 1" width="267" height="300">
somali origins E-M35

The modern population of E-M215 and E-M35 lineages are almost identical, and therefore by definition age estimates based on these two populations are also identical. E1b1b (E-M215) and its dominant sub-clade E1b1b1 (E-M35) are believed to have first appeared in East Africa about 22,400 years ago. All major sub-branches of E1b1b1 are thought to have originated in the same general area as the parent clade: in North Africa, East Africa, or nearby areas of the Near East. Some branches of E1b1b1 left Africa many thousands of years ago. For example Battaglia et al. (2007) estimated that E-M78 (“E1b1b1a1” in that paper) has been alone in Europe longer than 10,000 years. And more recently, human remains excavated in a Spanish funeral cave dating from approximately 7000 years ago were shown to be in this haplogroup.[10]

15,000 BC

E-M78,

e-m78 distribution origins of somali

" data-medium-file="https://ancientsomali.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/m78-distribution.jpg?w=300&h=277" data-large-file="https://ancientsomali.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/m78-distribution.jpg?w=620" class="size-medium wp-image-146" title="m78 distribution" alt="e-m78 distribution somali" src="https://ancientsomali.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/m78-distribution.jpg?w=300&h=277" style="-x-ignore: 1" width="300" height="277">
e-m78 distribution origins of somali

It is believed M78 most likely originated in what is today north sudan and upper egypt, closely linked to human habitation around lake nubia. The M78 mutation has been estimated to have occurred up to 18,600 years ago (17,300–20,000 years ago).

10,000 BC

Proto-afroasiatic origins date from around 10,000 BC around the Sudanese Savannah, due to the sahara being much wetter than today. It seems to have been the main language for the cultures around the nile area at this period.

8,000 BC

This marks the end of the ice age, as the world gets warmer and the sea-levels rise, a mass migration out of the sahara creates a major split between the afro-asiactic family. It devides between North and South afro-asiatic languages. Somali is in this southern branch.

6,000 BC

E-V32

Cruciani et al. (2007) suggest that this sub-clade of E-V12 originated in North Africa , and then subsequently expanded further south into the Horn of Africa, where it is now prevalent.[Note 8]Before the discovery of V32, Cruciani et al. (2004) referred to the same lineages as the “gamma cluster”, which was estimated to have arisen about 8,500 years ago.

This marker suggests the first proto-cushitic languages were in this push southwards towards east africa.

e-v32 somali

" data-medium-file="https://ancientsomali.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/800px-e1b1b1a1b_v32_distribution.png?w=300&h=198" data-large-file="https://ancientsomali.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/800px-e1b1b1a1b_v32_distribution.png?w=620" class="alignnone size-medium wp-image-148" title="800px-E1b1b1a1b_V32_Distribution" alt="e-v32 somali " src="https://ancientsomali.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/800px-e1b1b1a1b_v32_distribution.png?w=300&h=198" style="-x-ignore: 1" width="300" height="198">

4,000 BC

At this date the Somali language has separated from other cushitic languages such as oromo, the evidence is the number of different sub-languages originating from the oromo and Somali branches of the afro-asiactic languages in comparison with semetic (which has a later origin). Even today some oromo languages and Somali remain unintelligible to within the group.

A popular misconceptions about the Somali origin, are that somalis are a mixture between arabs and other africans. Also further perpetuated by the fact several other east african populations speak semtetic languages, and so give the impression that somalis are also another group of semetic africans. This is clearly not the case, as somali predates both semetic and ge’ez languages, as i will show below.

3,7000 BC

Development of semitic languages happen at 3700 BC, with people from the J haplogroup adopting and being influenced by the african languges around the Nile delta, a language shift occurred. Similar to modern pidgin languages.

800 BC

Following the fall of d’mt a colony of the Sabaean empire, the african population in that region started to develop little kingdoms vying for power while using a semetic language to run official business. This is what produced the rapid diversification that led to the numerous semetic languages in East Africa, such as the ge’ez language."

https://ancientsomali.wordpress.com/2012/01/23/how-old-are-the-somali-people-and-somali-language/

The author is Somali and concludes Samaales have been in the Horn for 9000 years, which clearly does not follow from his evidence. But the rest of this has general corroboration. The Egyptian connection is real, but in the reverse direction from that you suggested.. Samaales come from the Sahara, via upper Egypt and the Sudan. They were still part of the Southeastern Cushites at Namoratunga, in Kenya, in 300 BC. As proto-Sam they crossed the border into Somalia about the beginning of the Common Era. The major clans only begin to form about a thousand years later. The Hawiyya reach the Indian Ocean by about 1100 AD and the Isaaq and Darood form during the period of Aw Barkhadle in the 12th-13th centuries.

The "god's land" means the east, the home of the sun. The ancient Egyptians and the Cushites all came from the Saharan cattle peoples, to the west, as the Sahara dried up; so in that sense, they were the same people, but the ancient Egyptians did NOT come from Somalia, and neither did the Samaales.

 

[Abdalla]

Puntland needs to start collecting taxes from these book writers, universities and etc every time they mention the blessed state.

Ps the capital of the land of punt was known as garowe, trust me, I know thinks

Didn't the Pharao drown in a well near Garowe?

 

[adaharari]

@adaharari are u gonna update that Cushitic language thread? You have revealed the languages yet.

Which one?

 

[Grant]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E-V68#CITEREFCrucianiLa_FrattaTrombettaSantolamazza2007

The Nile River and its main tributaries: a probable corridor of ancient human migrations, including those involving the Y DNA lineages E-M243, E-M78, E-V12, and E-V22.

The Southeastern Cushites migrated to the area of Lake Turkana and eventually dispersed from there.

http://www.as.utexas.edu/~wheel/africa/namoratunga.htm

 

[Luna]

Which one?

The one where you made us guess the languages. There were 9 of them, I think.

 

[Prince Abubu]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E-V68#CITEREFCrucianiLa_FrattaTrombettaSantolamazza2007

The Nile River and its main tributaries: a probable corridor of ancient human migrations, including those involving the Y DNA lineages E-M243, E-M78, E-V12, and E-V22.

The Southeastern Cushites migrated to the area of Lake Turkana and eventually dispersed from there.

http://www.as.utexas.edu/~wheel/africa/namoratunga.htm

What's your view on T haplogroup? Most of the studies always talk about E1b1b, but never the former. There very little info on how it got to somalia/HOA.

 

[Grant]

What's your view on T haplogroup? Most of the studies always talk about E1b1b, but never the former. There very little info on how it got to somalia/HOA.

Prince,

I'm not an expert. I just read the studies. It is my understanding that "T" originates in the Zagros mountain range of Iran.

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_T_Y-DNA.shtml

"Although haplogroup T is more common today in East Africa than anywhere else, it almost certainly spread from the Fertile Crescent with the rise of agriculture. Indeed, the oldest subclades and the greatest diversity of T is found in the Middle East, especially around the Fertile Crescent. Lazaridis et al. (2016) identified one carrier of haplogroup T among the remains of the Pre-Pottery Neolithic B site in Jordan. A T1a sample was also found in the Early Neolithic Linear Pottery (LBK) culture in Germany by Mathieson et al. (2015). By the end of the last glacial period, 12,000 years ago, haplogroup T had already differentiated into subclades such as T1a1a, T1a2, T1a3a and T1a3b. Deeper subclades developed in the Near East during the Early Neolithic period for several millennia before early farmers started expanding beyond the Near East.

Neolithic colonisation of the Arabian peninsula and East Africa
The higher frequency of T in East Africa would be due to a founder effect among Neolithic farmers or pastoralists from the Middle East. One theory is that haplogroup T spread alongside J1 as herder-hunters in the Pre-Pottery Neolithic period, leaving the Zagros mountains between 9,000 and 10,000 BCE, reaching the Egypt and the southern Arabian peninsula around 7,000 BCE, then propagating from there to the Horn of Africa, and later on to Madagascar. However, considering that J1 peaks in Yemen and Sudan, while T1 is most common in southern Egypt, Eritrea and Somalia, the two may not necessarily have spread together. They might instead have spread as separate nomadic tribes of herders who colonised the Red Sea region during the Neolithic, a period than spanned over several millennia. Nevertheless both are found in all the Arabian peninsula, all the way from Egypt to Somalia, and in Madagascar. This contrasts with other Near Eastern haplogroups like G2a and J2, which are conspicuously absent from East Africa, and rare in the Arabian peninsula. Nowadays, T1a subclades dating from the Neolithic found in East Africa include Y16247 (downstream of CTS2214) and Y16897. Other subclades dating from the Bronze Age (see below) are present as well, such as Y15711 and Y21004, both downstream of CTS2214."

 

[Prince Abubu]

Prince,

I'm not an expert. I just read the studies. It is my understanding that "T" originates in the Zagros mountain range of Iran.

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_T_Y-DNA.shtml

"Although haplogroup T is more common today in East Africa than anywhere else, it almost certainly spread from the Fertile Crescent with the rise of agriculture. Indeed, the oldest subclades and the greatest diversity of T is found in the Middle East, especially around the Fertile Crescent. Lazaridis et al. (2016) identified one carrier of haplogroup T among the remains of the Pre-Pottery Neolithic B site in Jordan. A T1a sample was also found in the Early Neolithic Linear Pottery (LBK) culture in Germany by Mathieson et al. (2015). By the end of the last glacial period, 12,000 years ago, haplogroup T had already differentiated into subclades such as T1a1a, T1a2, T1a3a and T1a3b. Deeper subclades developed in the Near East during the Early Neolithic period for several millennia before early farmers started expanding beyond the Near East.

Neolithic colonisation of the Arabian peninsula and East Africa
The higher frequency of T in East Africa would be due to a founder effect among Neolithic farmers or pastoralists from the Middle East. One theory is that haplogroup T spread alongside J1 as herder-hunters in the Pre-Pottery Neolithic period, leaving the Zagros mountains between 9,000 and 10,000 BCE, reaching the Egypt and the southern Arabian peninsula around 7,000 BCE, then propagating from there to the Horn of Africa, and later on to Madagascar. However, considering that J1 peaks in Yemen and Sudan, while T1 is most common in southern Egypt, Eritrea and Somalia, the two may not necessarily have spread together. They might instead have spread as separate nomadic tribes of herders who colonised the Red Sea region during the Neolithic, a period than spanned over several millennia. Nevertheless both are found in all the Arabian peninsula, all the way from Egypt to Somalia, and in Madagascar. This contrasts with other Near Eastern haplogroups like G2a and J2, which are conspicuously absent from East Africa, and rare in the Arabian peninsula. Nowadays, T1a subclades dating from the Neolithic found in East Africa include Y16247 (downstream of CTS2214) and Y16897. Other subclades dating from the Bronze Age (see below) are present as well, such as Y15711 and Y21004, both downstream of CTS2214."

So it arrived in the horn from Mesopotamia, as opposed to E1b1b which came through from the Levant and North Africa.

 

[Grant]

So it arrived in the horn from Mesopotamia, as opposed to E1b1b which came through from the Levant and North Africa.

Given that the addition was neolithic, "T" could just as easily have come "from Egypt". 7000 YA was pre-dynastic and preceded even many of the migrations out of the Sahara. The stories of Abraham, Joseph and Moses clearly demonstrate the mobility of peoples during later periods. The evidence seems to indicate multiple early migrations in both directions, out of, and back into, Africa. So far, we just don't know the exact steps.