Lupita on Weinstein

[NotMyL]

What a (((coincidence))) that it's only being revealed (((now)))

I bet it's not because women have a voice all of the sudden, he must have done something to someone in power that's the only way you can be screwed like this

 

[TooMacaan]

It's not just a Hollywood issue. Situations like this will always exist because it's about power. If it were a woman in this position of power she could exploit a man just the same. Same way a government can exploit its people, an employer it's employee, a parent it's child. It sucks but it's life, that's why morals are important. She still had a choice (based on what I've read above).

These things have improved and can be in other parts of the world with certain security measures and laws put in place. But it'll never fully go away, as long as you're at the mercy of someone else.

When it comes to physical power we are dependent on men (when it comes to other men) and that's not a shackle of patriarchy it's just biology. Wouldn't you be glad to have your dad, brothers, or male relatives around if you were being attacked by a man? Or glad that having them around would act as a deterrent in keeping predators away.

Not everything can be blamed on patriarchy. There are definitely still a lot of huge issues out there but I think those things you mentioned are just part of life, the way it is.

Of course, and that's one of the worst parts-- this kinda thing isn't limited to a young girl with big aspirations, all alone in the middle of LA; it's in every corner of society and sadly, for some, a part of daily life. A male guardian can't accompany us everywhere we go in order to protect us...nor should they.

My issue is the idea of patriarchy being offered as the solution of solutions. It's a cop out. It's hiding the real issue under the carpet, and going with what's more convenient for the so called nice guys. 'Harassment in the workplace? oh ok, well it can never fully go away so women shouldn't work anymore-- back to housewife duties'. We have schools, we have police officers, we have investigators, we have a justice system; it would serve us well to fix, and take full advantage of, these wonderful institutions.

Yes- things have definitely improved, thanks to moving away from the old system (the same system which is being proposed as a solution kek). The reason it's gotten better is because ppl refused to give up-- imo, there needs to be more of that courage and hope. I admit that my views are very idealistic but the bar has to be set high, even if we never get there...we can try to get as close as possible, little by little. Defeatism and resignation never got anyone anywhere; always aim for positive change.

As far as women doing the same if in power, it's possible. It's an issue of exploitation and power- not strictly to do with gender (although women do get targeted more often, and it's almost exclusively males [& a few compromised females] who are in power). I didn't blame this all on patriarchy and I didn't even bring feminism into it (if you read through the thread, you'll see @jugjugwacwac initially suggested it was a feminist 'dilemma').

I acknowledge that men, on average, are physically stronger than women but that's not as relevant in these types of situations since the woman in question wasn't necessarily in fear of a physical advance or rape. Again, it's about social [and monetary] power, influence, and connections. How does a male guardian physically ensure that women are provided opportunities (according to their professional abilities) without getting harassed?? What role could he play?

 

[embarassing]

Of course, and that's one of the worst parts-- this kinda thing isn't limited to a young girl with big aspirations, all alone in the middle of LA; it's in every corner of society and sadly, for some, a part of daily life. A male guardian can't accompany us everywhere we go in order to protect us...nor should they.

My issue is the idea of patriarchy being offered as the solution of solutions. It's a cop out. It's hiding the real issue under the carpet, and going with what's more convenient for the so called nice guys. 'Harassment in the workplace? oh ok, well it can never fully go away so women shouldn't work anymore-- back to housewife duties'. We have schools, we have police officers, we have investigators, we have a justice system; it would serve us well to fix, and take full advantage of, these wonderful institutions.

Yes- things have definitely improved, thanks to moving away from the old system (the same system which is being proposed as a solution kek). The reason it's gotten better is because ppl refused to give up-- imo, there needs to be more of that courage and hope. I admit that my views are very idealistic but the bar has to be set high, even if we never get there...we can try to get as close as possible, little by little. Defeatism and resignation never got anyone anywhere; always aim for positive change.

As far as women doing the same if in power, it's possible. It's an issue of exploitation and power- not strictly to do with gender (although women do get targeted more often, and it's almost exclusively males [& a few compromised females] who are in power). I didn't blame this all on patriarchy and I didn't even bring feminism into it (if you read through the thread, you'll see @jugjugwacwac initially suggested it was a feminist 'dilemma').

I acknowledge that men, on average, are physically stronger than women but that's not as relevant in these types of situations since the woman in question wasn't necessarily in fear of a physical advance or rape. Again, it's about social [and monetary] power, influence, and connections. How does a male guardian physically ensure that women are provided opportunities (according to their professional abilities) without getting harassed?? What role could he play?

Not just young girls are affected but everyone, male, female, young and old especially the poor. What I'm saying is I don't think this specific case was caused by patriarchy or patriarchal remnants. The old man was clearly a scumbag but he didn't commit a crime. She chose what she must've felt mattered more to her. So the institutions you listed wouldn't help her here either. Those institutions don't stop a woman from being sexually harassed or raped it just deals with the perpetrator after the fact. Im sure it does act as a deterrent for some but it still happens very often.
Women are *sexually* exploited by men more often yes. There are reasons for that as well, but that's not the only kind of exploitation. I was speaking more generally.
I'm not suggesting a man accompanies women everywhere that's nonsensical but having male figures around does act as a deterrent and I don't mean just physical. So I'd avoid situations where you're alone with strange men, have a male relative there. No police officer or judge will ever care as much as your father for example. I highly doubt he would've propositioned her like that had she had her father, husband or brother there. Lol and I'm not suggesting women stay out of the workplace and at home because these kindve situations don't only arise in that environment... it can happen anywhere.
I don't know if you believe having a male relative accompany a woman in certain situations is a remnant of patriarchy but it's a part of the 'old system' I believe is good and wise. I'm not being defeatist I agree we should set the bar high but we still live in the real world where these things happen, so practical steps should be taken to avoid being a victim while also aiming to improve things. It's like crime in general, we should aim for a world completely free of crime but obviously it'll never happen.

Anyway I understand where you're coming from I just wanted to clarify the way I see it.

 

[TooMacaan]

Not just young girls are affected but everyone, male, female, young and old especially the poor. What I'm saying is I don't think this specific case was caused by patriarchy or patriarchal remnants. The old man was clearly a scumbag but he didn't commit a crime. She chose what she must've felt mattered more to her. So the institutions you listed wouldn't help her here either. Those institutions don't stop a woman from being sexually harassed or raped it just deals with the perpetrator after the fact. Im sure it does act as a deterrent for some but it still happens very often.
Women are *sexually* exploited by men more often yes. There are reasons for that as well, but that's not the only kind of exploitation. I was speaking more generally.
I'm not suggesting a man accompanies women everywhere that's nonsensical but having male figures around does act as a deterrent and I don't mean just physical. So I'd avoid situations where you're alone with strange men, have a male relative there. No police officer or judge will ever care as much as your father for example. I highly doubt he would've propositioned her like that had she had her father, husband or brother there. Lol and I'm not suggesting women stay out of the workplace and at home because these kindve situations don't only arise in that environment... it can happen anywhere.
I don't know if you believe having a male relative accompany a woman in certain situations is a remnant of patriarchy but it's a part of the 'old system' I believe is good and wise. I'm not being defeatist I agree we should set the bar high but we still live in the real world where these things happen, so practical steps should be taken to avoid being a victim while also aiming to improve things. It's like crime in general, we should aim for a world completely free of crime but obviously it'll never happen.

Anyway I understand where you're coming from I just wanted to clarify the way I see it.

He might've not committed a tangible legal crime in this specific case (although he's alleged to have been physical with other women), but what he did was still absolutely unacceptable and breaks a general code of ethics. Yh, it's harder to prosecute these kind of things because the problem is structural/abstract, but social pressure for change and giving a platform to affected voices is better than turning a blind eye.

But why? Why does having a male figure around act as a deterrent, if not physical? Is it that males have a level of respect for other males, that they don't expand to women? And if so, how is that not a 'patriarchal remnant'? (I don't have anything against people bringing along a male relative if that's what they prefer or feel comfortable doing, but I just wish we lived in a world where we didn't have to, ya know?).

Agree 100% with the underlined, but some people try ignoring the latter half of it.

 

[Waxwaalan]

k'naan must've felt helpless

 

[Sophisticate]

k'naan must've felt helpless

You know damn well he knew what he was getting himself into. Orgies are written into his contract.

 

[Waxwaalan]

You know damn well he knew what he was getting himself into. Orgies are written into his contract.

lets not expose our daad habo

 

[Sophisticate]

lets not expose our daad habo

The bisaad is out of the bag.