Machiavelli

[Helios]

What do you think of Machiavelli and amoral politics?

Do good ends justify the means taken to achieve them?

 

[Octavian]

What do you think of Machiavelli and amoral politics?

Do good ends justify the means taken to achieve them?

yes sometimes the end justify the means

 

[Geostars]

I think that In politics people work with and against each other and it can be amoral a lot of the time.

But it’s not worth it in a world where everyone will be accountable for what they do.

 

[abdullah233]

His work on The prince is quite interesting however I agree amorality is a necessity for the state to flourish a political career forces one to make difficult decisions that benefit your people and hurt others

 

[Geostars]

His work on The prince is quite interesting however I agree amorality is a necessity for the state to flourish a political career forces one to make difficult decisions that benefit your people and hurt others

It doesn’t have to be like that so therefore it isn’t a necessity, it’s just that what we see a lot of the times is amorality.
Would you consider the rashidun caliphate a state ran on immorality because it flourished?

 

[Geostars]

Because I’d say it wasn’t and it flourished

 

[abdullah233]

It doesn’t have to be like that so therefore it isn’t a necessity, it’s just that what we see a lot of the times is amorality.
Would you consider the rashidun caliphate a state ran on immorality because it flourished?

The rashidun caliphate was ran on law sent from god and thus flourished however in secular political systems it’s a necessity to make amoral decisions

 

[Geostars]

The rashidun caliphate was ran on law sent from god and thus flourished however in secular political systems it’s a necessity to make amoral decisions

Yes I guess so if it’s secular

 

[Geostars]

But in your first statement u left that word out

 

[Aurelian]

The karma that will come from this isn't good in opinion

 

[The alchemist]

 

[Omar del Sur]

The ideal state is the Islamic state under Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).

To know how to run the ideal state, we should study the Islamic state under Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and the first four Caliphs.

Obviously, the early Muslims weren't naïve hippies. They fought and they defended themselves but they weren't amoral either.

If what Machiavelli said contradicts Quran and Sunnah then we have to follow Quran and Sunnah. I have a copy of The Prince and there are bits that don't go against Quran and Sunnah. Not all of it is teaching immorality.

But the overall idea I think is that the ruler should just abandon morals and embrace an amoral philosophy, similar to Nietzsche.

Not only is that approach wrong but I don't even think it's effective. If you have no morals, people will find out and you'll get a reputation for it. People won't trust you and you won't have real friends. If you're the ruler, the people might not be loyal and you might overthrown and/or assassinated the moment you let your guard slip.

But not all of his ideas were necessarily wrong or immoral. For example, is it better to be loved or feared? I think he said both is ideal but if you can only get one, then fear is good. I don't think this is necessarily wrong. Potential criminals might not love the sharia but the punishments may scare them away from committing crimes like zina.

 

[Adaawe]

The Prince is the blueprint.

 

[abdullah233]

The Prince is the blueprint.

The prince fucked me up

 

[Adaawe]

The prince fucked me up

Greatest book written on how to attain ultimate power and keep it. It's for the wolves not the privileged.

 

[abdullah233]

Greatest book written on how to attain ultimate power and keep it. It's for the wolves not the privileged.

It’s clear he looks at ruling in a amoral way he justifies manipulation and subjugation in order to keep his subjects in check it’s not for the faint hearted

 

[Adaawe]

It’s clear he looks at ruling in a amoral way he justifies manipulation and subjugation in order to keep his subjects in check it’s not for the faint hearted

Power isn't for the faint of heart. It is a balancing act of brutality and benevolence. Ultimate power has no morals. That's why it's reserved for Allah (SWT). Only HE is King.