Mismeasurement of the Somali

[superpower_2050]

Intelligence has nothing to do with race it’s all about the resources, environment and routine

How can you say that?
There is not one school in America where whites on average score better than Asians likewise there's not a single school in the US where blacks score higher than whites on average.

 

[AliAlg3bra]

How can you say that?
There is not one school in America where whites on average score better than Asians likewise there's not a single school in the US where blacks score higher than whites on average.

Find another way other than IQ test to measure intelligence cuz these IQ tests have a million confounding variables.

IQ test was designed to check the ability of special needs individuals back in the day and even then it was a shitty estimate. intelligence potential cannot be defined with IQ tests, much less the intelligence of a population. I'm not gonna even mention how the circumstances of testing skew that data further

 

[superpower_2050]

Find another way other than IQ test to measure intelligence cuz these IQ tests have a million confounding variables.

IQ test was designed to check the ability of special needs individuals back in the day and even then it was a shitty estimate. intelligence potential cannot be defined with IQ tests, much less the intelligence of a population. I'm not gonna even mention how the circumstances of testing skew that data further

I was comparing SAT scores. IQ is the best predictor of success. The vast majority of psychologists would tell you that.
Here is a graphs that shows the correlation between national IQ and alleles that are associated with intelligence

It sucks that this is the case but I'm also not surprised by it cause c'mon Europeans discovered electricity whereas sub-Saharan Africans did what exactly throughout the entire history of humanity.

 

[AliAlg3bra]

I was comparing SAT scores. IQ is the best predictor of success. The vast majority of psychologists would tell you that.
Here is a graphs that shows the correlation between national IQ and alleles that are associated with intelligence

It sucks that this is the case but I'm also not surprised by it cause c'mon Europeans discovered electricity whereas sub-Saharan Africans did what exactly throughout the entire history of humanity.

Best predictor. correlation does not mean causation sxb. IQ test can't withstand any actual scrutiny because they're made by social "scientists"

 

[superpower_2050]

Best predictor. correlation does not mean causation sxb. IQ test can't withstand any actual scrutiny because they're made by social "scientists"

I gave you gene variations and SAT scores. It's up to you to believe any of these psychometric tests but you're just getting worse information if you choose to not believe them. Might make you comfortable in the short term but it's a bad idea in the long term cause you will make worse predictions.
These results are also impossible to ignore because they will crop up even if you don't want them to. Other people that do not have the same trepidations as you will investigate racial differences.

 

[AliAlg3bra]

I gave you gene variations and SAT scores. It's up to you to believe any of these psychometric tests but you're just getting worse information if you choose to not believe them. Might make you comfortable in the short term but it's a bad idea in the long term cause you will make worse predictions.
These results are also impossible to ignore because they will crop up even if you don't want them to. Other people that do not have the same trepidations as you will investigate racial differences.

I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm saying that the IQ test as a model has to decide on what intelligence is but can't because we don't understand the brain in its totality. You can't test for something you can't fully define. observing that poorer nations typically have low IQ scores and then jumping to the conclusion that ethnicity is the reason doesn't make sense. I can appreciate that It's useful in predicting vaguely though

 

[superpower_2050]

I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm saying that the IQ test as a model has to decide on what intelligence is but can't because we don't understand the brain in its totality. You can't test for something you can't fully define. observing that poorer nations typically have low IQ scores and then jumping to the conclusion that ethnicity is the reason doesn't make sense. I can appreciate that It's useful in predicting vaguely though

There are twin studies that have been conducted in the US. The black/white IQ gap does not close. Where is the evidence for racial equality? Why should your point of departure be that different groups that have evolved in relatively geographically isolated environments have more or less the same cognitive ability?

 

[AliAlg3bra]

There are twin studies that have been conducted in the US. The black/white IQ gap does not close. Where is the evidence for racial equality? Why should your point of departure be that different groups that have evolved in relatively geographically isolated environments have more or less the same cognitive ability?

I just mentioned how IQ tests are poor measurements of intelligence and you've responded with a twin study of an IQ test. In any other field when something of significance pops up you'd ask the question why this is happening and then test your assumptions to come to a working answer.

IQ test didn't need to be rigorous because they were designed to see which kids had the most difficulty in school which then proved beneficial so they ran with it. You're asking too much of an IQ tests when you extrapolate that information as a completely accurate measure of intelligence to be the basis of other claims

 

[superpower_2050]

I just mentioned how IQ tests are poor measurements of intelligence and you've responded with a twin study of an IQ test. In any other field when something of significance pops up you'd ask the question why this is happening and then test your assumptions to come to a working answer.

IQ test didn't need to be rigorous because they were designed to see which kids had the most difficulty in school which then proved beneficial so they ran with it. You're asking too much of an IQ tests when you extrapolate that information as a completely accurate measure of intelligence to be the basis of other claims

No one made the claim IQ is completely accurate but it is valid and reliable. You try to dismiss it by claiming oh prototypically it was made to assess mental disability but IQ tests are used by militaries all around the world and for job candidate evaluation. People that actually research human intelligence have very little doubts about the validity of IQ.

You are also completely ignoring the genetic results i provided. You implied it is no surprise that poorer nations score lower but it is the asian nations that score the highest despite the fact that western nations are wealthier.

I would also like an answer to why you are quick to dismiss racial difference, why is it so shocking and unacceptable? You won't find racial equality anywhere when it comes to intelligence.

 

[AliAlg3bra]

No one made the claim IQ is completely accurate but it is valid and reliable. You try to dismiss it by claiming oh prototypically it was made to assess mental disability but IQ tests are used by militaries all around the world and for job candidate evaluation. People that actually research human intelligence have very little doubts about the validity of IQ.

You are also completely ignoring the genetic results i provided. You implied it is no surprise that poorer nations score lower but it is the asian nations that score the highest despite the fact that western nations are wealthier.

I would also like an answer to why you are quick to dismiss racial difference, why is it so shocking and unacceptable? You won't find racial equality anywhere when it comes to intelligence.

how is "no one made the claim IQ is completely accurate" and "it's valid" the same

 

[superpower_2050]

how is "no one made the claim IQ is completely accurate" and "it's valid" the same

It's valid in the sense that while it is indeed testing some forms of intelligence it could also be leaving some things out. I am not interested in this conversation anymore if you are not going to respond to any of my points.

 

[Poets]

@Thegoodshepherd

I thought it would be good to revisit this thread. I looked up the scores for the two high schools for the period 2017-2019. These are the grade 11 scores for mathematics (the most g-loaded subject).

In summary, if we aggregate the scores for the two almost exclusively somali high schools, we will have a sample of at least 100 different students for three years in a row. As evident below, the volatility of the results is not large when aggregated.

About ~ 27% of the pupils do not meet the goals, compared to ~ 23% for whites, and ~ 28% for Asians.

The scores for Whites:

And for Asian:

The aggregated scores for the two high schools yields:

These consistent results over a 5-year period make the data reliable.

 

[Yonis]

@Thegoodshepherd

I thought it would be good to revisit this thread. I looked up the scores for the two high schools for the period 2017-2019. These are the grade 11 scores for mathematics (the most g-loaded subject).

In summary, if we aggregate the scores for the two almost exclusively somali high schools, we will have a sample of at least 100 different students for three years in a row. As evident below, the volatility of the results is not large when aggregated.

About ~ 27% of the pupils do not meet the goals, compared to ~ 23% for whites, and ~ 28% for Asians.
View attachment 186771
View attachment 186772

The scores for Whites:

View attachment 186773

And for Asian:

View attachment 186775

The aggregated scores for the two high schools yields:

View attachment 186778

View attachment 186777

These consistent results over a 5-year period make the data reliable.

Been waiting for an update since 2019.

Great work akhi

 

[Poets]

The results can be found on:

https://rc.education.mn.gov/#mySchool/p--3

 

[Som]

I was comparing SAT scores. IQ is the best predictor of success. The vast majority of psychologists would tell you that.
Here is a graphs that shows the correlation between national IQ and alleles that are associated with intelligence

It sucks that this is the case but I'm also not surprised by it cause c'mon Europeans discovered electricity whereas sub-Saharan Africans did what exactly throughout the entire history of humanity.

The whole Lynn study is BS to begin with. They didn't even test half of the countries and assigned random numbers by calculating the average of neighboring countries.
Arabs have developed great civilizations and yet according to Lynn most Arab countries are in the mid 80s when it comes to IQ which is the same as African Americans. How is it possible?

 

[Som]

How can you say that?
There is not one school in America where whites on average score better than Asians likewise there's not a single school in the US where blacks score higher than whites on average.

in the US west africans, especially Nigerian americans out perform whites and are more likely to have degrees. The children of nigerian immigrants still have high educational success so there's no regression to the mean . You may say they are a self selected group but if the IQ scores of Nigeria were actually true there is no way nigerians could out perform whites no matter how much you select them.

 

[sikandar]

Likely because Nigerians and other immigrants really have no choice but to plug-in to the system if they want to have any kind of success outside their ethnic ghettoes

I don't think you can generalize the success of say Indians or Nigerians to other minorities (such as Somalis), these groups likely emigrated to the US voluntarily under their own power, and represent the cream of the crop

 

[musem3]

Along with IQ there are 2 other psychometric traits that have significant and substantive predictive value for Academic and Occupational performance. These traits are also significantly and substantially, genetically heritable. There're predictive polygenic scores for these traits. I suspect they have an impact at the population level as well.

1) High Levels of Trait Conscientiousness: dutifulness, orderliness, industriousness (work ethic + productivity), and self-discipline.

2) Low Levels of Trait Neuroticism (or High Emotional Stability): Self-esteem, self-efficacy, life satisfaction, job satisfaction, little to no depression/anxiety, little to no defensive aggression, low irritability, high social status, little to no sensitivity to stress.

Combined, IQ + conscientiousness + emotional stability have a predictive value of r > 0.6

Low conscientiousness (and agreeableness) is associated with criminality, psychopathy, antisocial behaviour, and aggression. These are actually issues that disproportionally effect the Somali Community in Toronto and I'm sure the diaspora as a whole. Search up "Toronto Murder Suspect" and about 1/5 of the mugshots are Somalis. That's a city of 6million people with 50-100k Somalis.

 

[hinters]

My older sister went to Ubah academy I think

 

[aden1812]

intelligence is a social construct and "if you adjust for poverty" is the most liberal sounding thing ever. Im doing a masters in computer science, and i'm not a genius. giving people access to a stable environment is more likely to lead to success in education, not skin color.