Mohammed Hijab gets called a pedo by the far-right, Zionists, and Ryan Garcia after an old video resurfaced in which he talks about underage marriage

[Do]

And you can follow whatever your western masters say

You're just a childish reactionary.

No real opinions or critical thought of your own, just assessing your enemy's moves so you can do the opposite, without a care for its consequences.

I'm happy you and your goons on this thread keep calling me a liberal Muslim or even takfir me like that doqon from earlier. It means I'm doing something right.

 

[_Yusuf_]

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Bro the sahih Hadith is written if you gotta problem that I don’t care. However you can not change the validity of it no matter how uncomfortable you are.

 

[Qeelbax]

View attachment 333598
Hijab had to defend it cause kaffir used this Hadith. Even I will affirm that a girl become a women at menstruation. That’s the Muslim position.

That's not the Islamic position. The Islamic position believes in both physical (taklif) and mental (aql) maturity. One is not simply considered baligh because they got their period or went through a height spurt.

 

[GeeljireGenius]

You're just a childish reactionary.

No real opinions or critical thought of your own, just assessing your enemy's moves so you can do the opposite, without a care for its consequences.

I'm happy you and your goons on this thread keep calling me a liberal Muslim or even takfir me like that doqon from earlier. It means I'm doing something right.

You're doing everything but right

 

[Qeelbax]

Different times, women matured quicker than they do now at that time. It’s proven that stresses such as hunger/weight loss can accelerate the puberty process in women, now add war to the equation

malnutrition delays periods, it doesn't speed it up.

 

[reer_ugaas_hussein]

Which classical scholar put the requirement she must have a first period?

They said as long as it's not gonna cause illness, it's fine. There's nothing about first "period". No classical scholar has the requirement of Mohamed Hijab that she must have "big boobs, huge hips, and body".

You’re right and I remembered it wrong, I thought sheikh al nawawi said she should show pubic hair, first period etc for marriage but he said it only is preferable so she may be in a marriage she doesn’t like and but not requirement at all. She just has to be able to.

 

[Qeelbax]

Most Western Muslims don't have the courage to face that question because it comes with the implication that the religion they've been devoted to their whole life was a lie and they generally lack the in-depth Islamic history knowledge to articulate their thoughts on the matter properly so they just sit there like:

excuse me? naya are you gaal?

 

[Do]

Bro the sahih Hadith is written if you gotta problem that I don’t care. However you can not change the validity of it no matter how uncomfortable you are.

So you don't have an issue with Aisha's age from that hadith being used by animals in this ummah to justify paedophilia, got it?

Sorry I'm concerned about the ethical implications in an Islamic society of a standalone hadith without proper consideration of the historical context and the tangible facts that can't be denied like a little girl's physiology.

 

[reer_ugaas_hussein]

It just doesn't make logical sense to me.

The various explanations I have read and heard only raise more questions. A simple understanding of what I mean by this cycle of answers needing more answers was already aptly explained by @caanoshaah earlier in this thread:



Scholars are not infallible and I reserve the right to take my time reading through the various opinions on the hadiths complied over the centuries - especially the more contentious hadiths that are used to steer people away from Islam.

My point is yes 100% scholars aren’t infallible and there can be several interpretation of a sahih hadiths but outright rejecting the validity of sahih hadith would be like a christian rejecting part of the gospels for example and would take you out of Islam. Some people fall into the mistake believing only rejecting the Quran and pets of it takes you out of the religion but rejecting the sahih hadiths does this too.

 

[Qeelbax]

So you don't have an issue with Aisha's age from that hadith being used by animals in this ummah to justify paedophilia, got it?

Sorry I'm concerned about the ethical implications in an Islamic society of a standalone hadith without proper consideration of the historical context and the tangible facts that can't be denied like a little girl's physiology.

yo answer my question

 

[reer_ugaas_hussein]

It just doesn't make logical sense to me.

The various explanations I have read and heard only raise more questions. A simple understanding of what I mean by this cycle of answers needing more answers was already aptly explained by @caanoshaah earlier in this thread:



Scholars are not infallible and I reserve the right to take my time reading through the various opinions on the hadiths complied over the centuries - especially the more contentious hadiths that are used to steer people away from Islam.

So just as advice saying you disagree with an interpretation of a sahih hadith by a scholar is ok I would say but outright rejecting what is in the hadith, like the age of aisha, takes you out of the religion

 

[Do]

excuse me? naya are you gaal?

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[World]

You’re right and I remembered it wrong, I thought sheikh al nawawi said she should show pubic hair, first period etc for marriage but he said it only is preferable so she may be in a marriage she doesn’t like and but not requirement at all. She just has to be able to.

She is called صغيرة (ṣaghīrah), which means a little girl that has had none of the signs of puberty (pubic hair, menstruation, wet dream, body development etc).

The Hanbalis permit marriage and consummation with saghirah after the age of 9, even if she skinny and emancipated. The rest of the madhab permit it with no age requirement, she can be a 5 year old even, but her body weight and ability to to have intimacy is to be taken into account.

If he kills her because she's too young to have intimacy, he has to pay her blood money.

"If a man has intercourse with his wife and she dies or becomes injured as a result, if she was a little girl (ṣaghīrah), coerced, or unable to endure it, he is liable for the blood money(diyya) by consensus. From all of this, it is understood that it is not permissible for him to have intercourse with her if it would harm her, and he must limit himself to what she can endure, determined by the judge or women's testimony. If this is not known, then by her statement. The same applies to the size of the organ, and he is instructed to insert only as much as she can endure, or as much as would be considered normal for a man of average build. And Allah knows best."

ص204 - كتاب حاشية ابن عابدين رد المحتار ط الحلبي - باب القسم بين الزوجات - المكتبة الشاملة

ص204 - كتاب حاشية ابن عابدين رد المحتار ط الحلبي - باب القسم بين الزوجات - المكتبة الشاملة

shamela.ws

 

[ina-cilmi]

You still haven’t answered my question: if you had a daughter would you be comfortable if she married a 30 year old man? You justified Mohammed marrying Aisha and you deemed it to be appropriate and justifiable.

Answer this simple question: would you arrange marriage for your 13 year old daughter marrying a man in his 30’s?

If you won’t answer this question then that means you have nothing to stand for. And you are probably ashamed of the Aisha marriage controversy. Answer this question if you believe this marriage would work on your behalf.

even if he says no it doesnt mean that he has nothing to stand for. You must understand this is a permissible matter, not an obligatory one. If it is not the custom of the people(which it isn't nowadays) then there is no issue in him not wanting this for his own daughter but having no issue with marriages like this itself. Keeping this in mind, if he were to say no, his position could be understood without trying to attack his own personal life.

 

[Angelina]

The thing is in the end that your condition of consent for marriage and consummation is not something that matters in the deen at all. In the modern sense of the word a slave can never consent either but in Islam your allowed to have sexual relation with your slaves too. So your saying a 9 year old cannont consent in the modern sense doesn't mean its not permissable in Islam.

@World

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[Angelina]

That's the beauty of Islam we don't look at age.

You’re an animal that needs to be locked up? So you’d try it with a 6 yr old?

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

You need to be locked up.

I fear for children and I’m truly scared.

Authobillah what an animal

 

[Angelina]

You’re right and I remembered it wrong, I thought sheikh al nawawi said she should show pubic hair, first period etc for marriage but he said it only is preferable so she may be in a marriage she doesn’t like and but not requirement at all. She just has to be able to.

And what is your opinion of that?!

 

[Dharbash]

malnutrition delays periods, it doesn't speed it up.

Mostly true but that’s usually based on research from High income countries, studies suggest it can happen both ways, both over nutrition and undernutrition through environmental factors such as war, hunger and life stresses can accelerate puberty onset in girls for better or worse. This is called life history theory.

Maternal restrictions also leads to early puberty onset

Source: Pre- and postnatal nutritional histories influence and reproductive maturation and ovarian function in the rat, PlOS ONE

Same journal indicates life history theory links earlier maturity to environmental stresses (could translate to war, famine/undernutrition?)

Here’s some other studies that suggest under nutrition and environmental factors such as war can effect earlier menarche and earlier puberty onset as an evolutionary way (history life theory) to ensure the population increases

source: Effects of War Exposure on Pubertal Development in Refugee Children, American Psychological Association, Developmental Psychology

Same source uses an example of a war that happened and the result of that war on earlier menarche (first period in girls), again, evidence for life history theory

Again life stresses leading to earlier maturation in girls, same source again

Keep in mind, while it is true that proper nutrition and even obesity can lead to earlier puberty onset, the opposite seems to also happen due to undernutrition and stresses such as war and so on. I’m not justifying child marriage or anything just that it is entirely possible for girls to reach maturity earlier as was the case for Aisha (R) due to many factors including undernutrition, war and other life stresses which was normal for her time

Also a lot of the research into the first category is mostly in high income countries which will of course offer more data and reliability due to controlled variables

 

[Awdalite]

Bro the sahih Hadith is written if you gotta problem that I don’t care. However you can not change the validity of it no matter how uncomfortable you are.

The hadith regarding Aisha's age being 9 is weak. People might be surprised because it's in Bukhari but not every hadith in Bukhari is authentic. The great hadith master Hafidh Al Daraqutni deemed around 200 hadiths in Bukhari to be weak.

What is the evidence the hadith regarding Aisha's age is weak?

Firstly the hadith has 3 main pathways in transmission:

1. الْأَعْمَشِ عَنْ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ الْأَسْوَدِ عَنْ عَائِشَةَ

2. هشام بن عروة عن أبيه عن عائشة

3. الزهري عن عروة عن عائشة

Another one via the transmission of:

مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ بِشْرٍ


Al A'mash was a مدلس in hadith. Mudalis is someone who claims to have heard a hadith from someone he didn't and uses the sequence of 'on the authority' I.e عنعنة

Al Zuhri also practised تدليس

Muhammad ibn 'Amr is weak in hadith transmission

And the smoking gun in the chain is عروة

It was said about him after he travelled to Iraq: قيل فيه اختلط/ساء حفظه/كان يدلس:

[[He became confused and his memory became poor and used to practice transmission of hadith from someone he did not hear from]].

ومالك لم يقبل روايته بعدما صار إلى العراق ، مع العلم أن كل الذين حدثوا عن هشام هذا الحديث من أهل العراق

[[Imam Malik never accepted any transmission from him ('Urwa) after he travelled to Iraq.]]

The funny thing is every transmission on Aisha's age being 9 was collected in Iraq and transmitted from Urwa when he went to Iraq.

Also another problem which contradicts Aisha's age from Sahih Bukhari:


ورد في [ البخـاري – باب جوار أبي بكر ] أنّ السيدة عائشة رضي الله عنهـا قالت : [ مـا أعْقـل أبواي إلاّ و همـا مسـلمان ] ، و أنهـا كـانت مدركةً [ هجرة الحبشة الولى

"I became of the age of reason knowing my parents always as being Muslim".
"And she had reason when the first hijrah to Habasha occurred."

According to all historians, the Hijrah to Habasha occurred in the 5th year of the Prophethood. There is no chance on earth she could have been 9 when the Prophet saw married her when she remembered the events of the hijra to Abyssinia as an event where she had reason.

Anyone wants to read more on this topic, get these books in Arabic, the evidences that she wasn't 9 is so numerous it is practically impossible.

السَّنَا الوَهَّاج في سن عائشة عند الزواج

زواج السيدة عائشة ومشروعية الزواج المبكر والرد على منكري ذلك

 

[Dharbash]

The hadith regarding Aisha's age being 9 is weak. People might be surprised because it's in Bukhari but not every hadith in Bukhari is authentic

Muslim also says she was 6 when married and 9 when consummated, it’s not a weak hadith. Also it’s Aisha narrating her own age, it’s not like a third party is the one saying this