More Descendants of Somali Merchants in the Gulf?

[daljirkadahsoon]

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I'm wondering if the Cushitic substratum theory relating to ancient times was true after all.

These merchant families also seem to have moved and settled in different places a lot.

 

[Juke]

Its deleted, what was it?

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

Its deleted, what was it?

It was saying that a sizeable section of a Hadhrami tribe was of Somali descent and went into some detail about them, their current Sheikh, etc. I've usually heard of families not whole jilibs that are settled and usually in Oman not Yemen so much.

 

[Idilinaa]

Southern Arabians and Somalis have cross migrated for centuries and settled in each-others lands. In many respects they acted as extensions of eachother.

Mentioned a study that explored this and the cross-border maritime economy .

Somalia and Yemen’s Cross-border Maritime Economy

Somalia and yemen's cross-border maritime economy

The Harti, which includes the Warsangeli and the Mijerteen (Ismaan Mahmoud), also have a strong maritime identity and dispersed diaspora presence, including longstanding communities in Yemen.5

A local Sultan in Bosasso, in present-day Puntland, describes the Somali–Yemen relation-
ship in the nineteenth and the first half of the twentieth century:

The countries were not as separated as they are now. People moved freely and
everyone settled wherever they wanted. Hadramawt is close to Somalia physically
and culturally … The Hadramis were coming to Somalia for centuries. They are
mainly merchants. They were running away from poverty in Hadramawt … We
were always mixing and intermingling. We received each other as guests and
fed each other. We travelled in each other’s territory without restriction.

For much of their history, the regions encompassed by present-day north-eastern Somalia
(Puntland), Somaliland and (southern) Yemen have been, in many respects, extensions
of each other. They shared a religious and cultural identity that was mutually influenced
through social and economic interactions, easing and enabling interactions even to this
day. For many Somali-speakers these ties were more significant, and welcoming, than
those held with the states and communities of the modern borderlands with Ethiopia
and Kenya. These ties were further strengthened through the incorporation into the
British (Indian Ocean) Empire in the late nineteenth century.7

 

[Midas]

Why did they delete it

 

[Idilinaa]

Why did they delete it

I think they retweeted it. Click on their twitter page , it looks like its from an old arabic book by a Yemeni Hadrahmi Historian

 

[Midas]

I think they retweeted it. Click on their twitter page , it looks like its from an old arabic book by a Yemeni Hadrahmi Historian

That makes sense. It is something I've wondered about since I knew about the existence of somali clans in oman. Why didn't any settle in yemen? But I suppose it's all written in arabic.

 

[Midas]

I bet there is a lot of gaps we could fill in somali history using arabic sources specifically from yemen.

 

[Idilinaa]

That makes sense. It is something I've wondered about since I knew about the existence of somali clans in oman. Why didn't any settle in yemen? But I suppose it's all written in arabic.

Look at the study i posted in English, there is plenty of them, more so even than in Oman.

That's why i shared it.

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

I bet there is a lot of gaps we could fill in somali history using arabic sources specifically from yemen.

100% the sheer amount of old manuscripts they have is incredible

 

[Idilinaa]

I bet there is a lot of gaps we could fill in somali history using arabic sources specifically from yemen.

It will expand our knowledge. There is also Somali Arabic and Somali languages sources. A good portion haven't been translated into European languages or easily accessible online.

A few of those Arabic sources was utilized by Abdurrahman Baadiyow in his English written studies on the history of Somali Islamic movements inside Somalia during the 18th and 19th century.

Baadiyow has a command of various languages and utilised his Arabic skills to draw more from early Arabic writings on Somalis, for example the valuable yet inaccessible works produced by Islamic sheikhs in the late nineteenth century.

Arabic sources in general will fill huge gaps.

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

Look at the study i posted in English, there is plenty of them, more so even than in Oman.

That's why i shared it.

Could you elaborate on some of these clans please?

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

The same account also speaks of a clan of Somali descent in the Eritrean islands known as 'Ad Saleh'

 

[Midas]

Look at the study i posted in English, there is plenty of them, more so even than in Oman.

That's why i shared it.

Yh of course. I just noticed when people talk aksum or medievak ethiopias trade with yemen. The elephant in the room (Somalia) is almost never mentioned.

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

Yh of course. I just noticed when people talk aksum or medievak ethiopias trade with yemen. The elephant in the room (Somalia) is almost never mentioned.

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[Idilinaa]

Yh of course. I just noticed when people talk aksum or medievak ethiopias trade with yemen. The elephant in the room (Somalia) is almost never mentioned.

I have touched on this before, they do mention Somalis trading with Yemen in antiquity. There is entire recent studies on this even left behind commercial treaties written in stone that archeologist have studied.

Somalia itself yielded evidence for common international interest in receiving aromatic products from the Qarfuuna region. The evidence relates to prehistoric Somali-Yemeni commercial relations. A set of monumental inscriptions on seven large stone blocks have recently been discovered by local treasury-seekers in a cave temple 150 km southwest of Qarfuuna and 110 km north of Xaafuun. The Sabaean writers of these “homogenous inscriptions” were more concerned to express a religious devotion to Sabaean idols. But the commercial factor in the epigraphy is testified by statements for a naval expedition sent by a Yemeni king to this region of Somalia.

And the same cross border migration of merchants and economic migrants was happening then as well:

About the trade connection to Yemen in Pre-Islamic times. Said Shidad elaborate on that in a recent study:
Social and Economic Developments in Pre-Islamic Somalia

The unique role of Somalia in the Horn for the regional trade was also noted by Claudius Ptolemy c. 150 CE. He singled out the country for being a commercial partner of Yemen with the largest number of trade centers citing The Geography of Ptolemy; 1991. pp. 38, 107).

The trade between Somalia and Arabia must have existed long before and after the date of the inscriptions. Agatharchides noted around 150 BCE an increase the trade by a Yemeni presence in Somalia. Describing the Sabaeans and the Phoenicians as the richest nations in the world, he reported that the former were traveling and had settlements in the land of the aromatics

The author of Periplus already noted that the Somalis were crossing to Arabia on their own small boats. And on the basis of population exchange between Somalia and Yemen during the Islamic era, it is possible that the Somalis were also residing in the Yemeni coast in the Pre-Islamic era. Pliny noted that cinnamon merchants from the Horn were staying southern Yemeni ports about five years for business ([52], p. XXI, 42).

The only difference was there was no invasions or political disputes between them like it was between Axum and Yemeni Kingdoms, just peaceful mutual trade and were most likely allies.

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

I have touched on this before, they do mention Somalis trading with Yemen in antiquity. There is entire recent studies on this even left behind commercial treaties written in stone


And the same cross border migration of merchants and economic migrants was happening then as well:




The only difference was there was no invasions or political disputes between them like it was between Axum and Yemeni Kingdoms, just peaceful mutual trade and were most likely allies.

There was a bit of drama in the medieval era where Yemenis - once the Rasulids and another time the Mehris were repulsed

 

[Idilinaa]

There was a bit of drama in the medieval era where Yemenis - once the Rasulids and another time the Mehris were repulsed

I don't think there was ever much conflict between Somalis and Yemenis to be honest. But there was spatial boundary maintenance between both parties and diplomatic agreements.

Partly because there was a mutual economic dependence.

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

I don't think there was ever much conflict between Somalis and Yemenis to be honest. But there was spatial boundary maintenance between both parties and diplomatic agreements.

Partly because there was a mutual economic dependence.

Yes exactly those two occurences I mentioned were the rare exceptions.

 

[Midas]

I have touched on this before, they do mention Somalis trading with Yemen in antiquity. There is entire recent studies on this even left behind commercial treaties written in stone that archeologist have studied.


And the same cross border migration of merchants and economic migrants was happening then as well:




The only difference was there was no invasions or political disputes between them like it was between Axum and Yemeni Kingdoms, just peaceful mutual trade and were most likely allies.

Where is the best places to find free sources on this