Nilote with extremely high bantu ancestry

[Nilote2]

Hi,

I stumbled upon this forum while trying to trace my ancestry & found a thread where you helped a Nilotic girl out, so I figured I'd give it a shot.

A little background:
I'm a Nilote from Western Kenya that has many times been mistaken for a Horner (Somali/Ethiopian) due to my non-Nilotic appearance (lighter skin) and above average height. At first I didn't pay it any mind but when several East Africans kept telling me that I look Rwandan, I eventually got fed up & took a DNA test to prove them wrong.

The results were shocking. I assumed I'd at least have around 40% Nilotic ancestry seeing that everyone in my family are slim and tall, but I couldn't have expected this:

Results (Living DNA):

• Y-DNA: E-V32 CTS5738/Z817 (Nubian?)
• mtDNA: L0A2b (Mbuti Pygmy)

Autosomal DNA:

East Africa 78%
-----------------------------
Luhya 46.4%
Kenya Bantu 18.4%
Giriama 6.1%
Anuak-South Sudanese 2.7%
Dinka-Nuer-Shilluk 2.2%

West Africa 20.4%
-----------------------------
Cameroon bantu 7.5%
Yoruba 4.2%
Mende 3.2%
Semi-Bantu 2.1%
Bamum 1.7%
Benin 1.6%

South and Central Africa
-----------------------------
Southwestern bantu 2.2%
Southeastern bantu 1.6%

When I uploaded the same results to GED match, the Nilotic component increased to 17.36%.

Ethiohelix K10 + Africa only
Nilo-Saharan - 17.36%
East-Africa2 - 0%
Mbuti-Pygmy - 0.64%
East_Africa1 - 6.23%
Khoi-San- 0%
West_Africa - 52.16%
Hadza - 3.15%
Biaka-Pygmy: 9.87%
North-Africa: 2.3%
Omotic: 8.3%

When I instead used Palestinian as a proxy, the West African component split into Eastern Bantu (34.54%) and West African (19.95%) while Mbuti pygmy slightly increased (+1.36%). Khoisan now also appeared (1.08%).

Ethiohelix K10 + Palestinian:
Nilo-Saharan17.07%
East-Africa16.65%
Mbuti-Pygmy2.02%
Eastern-Bantu34.54%
Khoi-San1.08%
West-Africa19.95%
Hadza3.79%
Biaka-Pygmy8.81%
Palestinian2.25%
Omotic3.84%

PuntDNA African only:
Nilo_Saharan15.71%
Ubangian_Congo3.29%
W_Benue_Congo33.85%
Eastern_HG3.49%
E_Benue_Congo38.13%
Omotic1.74%
Southern_HG-
Western_Semitic3.8%

PuntDNA K15:
S_Indian-
Mediterranean 0.12%
Siberian-
Wht_Nile_River 24.7%
Amerindian-
S_African 3.42%
E_Asian-
Caucasian 0.73%
NE_European 0.11%
Omo_River 1.11%
W_African 64.65%
Horn_Of_Africa 4.98%
Oceanian
Beringian0.16%
SW_Asian-

The Luo of Kenya are known to cluster with their bantu neighbour (Luhya) due to 500 years of intermarriage, so my first thought was that I might be an assimilated bantu. However, my clan borders with the Kalenjin (Nilotes) so I'm doubtful.

I also don't cluster with the Luhya samples I found on yfull.com, they all seem to be derived from a more recent Somali/Ethiopian ancestor (EZ813 formed 5300 YBP/TMRCA 4300 YBP).

E-Z813 YTree

www.yfull.com

My haplotype is 2000 years older, it clusters with E-CTS2294 which is the parent of EZ813. It was formed 7000 YBP /TMRCA 5300 YBP.

E-CTS2294 YTree

www.yfull.com

CTS5995/Z818 which is found within E-CTS2994 matches a gravesite in Kulubnarti Nubia. This made me posit whether my ancestor could in fact have assimilated into the Luo and migrated with them to Kenya. Autosomal makeup can change by up to 75% within 2 generations of intermarriage so it's not entirely impossible (or maybe I'm reaching).

Northern Nilotes & Darfurians have been known to carry e1b1b at relatively high rates.

Y-DNA haplogroups (Hassan, 2008):

Dinka (Nilotic):
62% A (Nilotic), 23% B (Nilotic), 15% E1b1b (Cushitic).

Shilluk Luo (Nilotic):
53.3% A (Nilotic), 26.7% B (Nilotic), 20% E1b1b (Cushitic).

Nuer (Nilotic):
33.3% A (Nilotic), 50% B (Nilotic), 16.7% E1b1b (Cushitic).

Fur (Nilo-Saharan):
31.3% A (Nilotic), 3.1% B (Nilotic), 59.4% E1b1b (Cushitic

Nuba:
46.4% A (Nilotic), 14.3% B (Nilotic), 39.3% E1b1b (Cushitic).

Masalit (Nilo-Saharan):
71.9% E1b1b of which 73.9% bear V32, 18.8% A3b2 (Nilotic), 3.1% B (Nilotic/pygmy),.
mtDNA: L0a1 (14.6%) and L1c (12.2%) are most frequent.

Ballemi (2018) found e1b1b to be the most common haplogroup (32%) in a sample of 50 Nuers in Gambella, Ethiopia (see attachment) & I found a Dinka with E-V32 on Tiktok (see attachment).

I guess I'm trying to come to terms with the fact that I carry this much bantu ancestry. I've always been proud of my Nilotic roots so this is very disappointing.

 

[Xareen]

We got E-V32 Luos before GTA 6 no way

fwiw you probably got ur E-V32 from an Iron Age 'Pastoral Neolithic' type group that assimilated with Kenyan Bantus. Doubt it has much to do with your Nilotic side.

 

[Garaad Awal]

We got E-V32 Luos before GTA 6 no way

There’s a bunch of Luo & Luhya E-V32 samples on yfull. They absorbed some Cushitic males, probably East Cushitic (like modern Oromos & Somalis) judging by the specific subclades they belong too.

 

[NidarNidar]

Hi,

I stumbled upon this forum while trying to trace my ancestry & found a thread where you helped a Nilotic girl out, so I figured I'd give it a shot.

A little background:
I'm a Nilote from Western Kenya that has many times been mistaken for a Horner (Somali/Ethiopian) due to my non-Nilotic appearance (lighter skin) and above average height. At first I didn't pay it any mind but when several East Africans kept telling me that I look Rwandan, I eventually got fed up & took a DNA test to prove them wrong.

The results were shocking. I assumed I'd at least have around 40% Nilotic ancestry seeing that everyone in my family are slim and tall, but I couldn't have expected this:

Results (Living DNA):

• Y-DNA: E-V32 CTS5738/Z817 (Nubian?)
• mtDNA: L0A2b (Mbuti Pygmy)

Autosomal DNA:

East Africa 78%
-----------------------------
Luhya 46.4%
Kenya Bantu 18.4%
Giriama 6.1%
Anuak-South Sudanese 2.7%
Dinka-Nuer-Shilluk 2.2%

West Africa 20.4%
-----------------------------
Cameroon bantu 7.5%
Yoruba 4.2%
Mende 3.2%
Semi-Bantu 2.1%
Bamum 1.7%
Benin 1.6%

South and Central Africa
-----------------------------
Southwestern bantu 2.2%
Southeastern bantu 1.6%

When I uploaded the same results to GED match, the Nilotic component increased to 17.36%.

Ethiohelix K10 + Africa only
Nilo-Saharan - 17.36%
East-Africa2 - 0%
Mbuti-Pygmy - 0.64%
East_Africa1 - 6.23%
Khoi-San- 0%
West_Africa - 52.16%
Hadza - 3.15%
Biaka-Pygmy: 9.87%
North-Africa: 2.3%
Omotic: 8.3%

When I instead used Palestinian as a proxy, the West African component split into Eastern Bantu (34.54%) and West African (19.95%) while Mbuti pygmy slightly increased (+1.36%). Khoisan now also appeared (1.08%).

Ethiohelix K10 + Palestinian:
Nilo-Saharan17.07%
East-Africa16.65%
Mbuti-Pygmy2.02%
Eastern-Bantu34.54%
Khoi-San1.08%
West-Africa19.95%
Hadza3.79%
Biaka-Pygmy8.81%
Palestinian2.25%
Omotic3.84%

PuntDNA African only:
Nilo_Saharan15.71%
Ubangian_Congo3.29%
W_Benue_Congo33.85%
Eastern_HG3.49%
E_Benue_Congo38.13%
Omotic1.74%
Southern_HG-
Western_Semitic3.8%

PuntDNA K15:
S_Indian-
Mediterranean 0.12%
Siberian-
Wht_Nile_River 24.7%
Amerindian-
S_African 3.42%
E_Asian-
Caucasian 0.73%
NE_European 0.11%
Omo_River 1.11%
W_African 64.65%
Horn_Of_Africa 4.98%
Oceanian
Beringian0.16%
SW_Asian-

The Luo of Kenya are known to cluster with their bantu neighbour (Luhya) due to 500 years of intermarriage, so my first thought was that I might be an assimilated bantu. However, my clan borders with the Kalenjin (Nilotes) so I'm doubtful.

I also don't cluster with the Luhya samples I found on yfull.com, they all seem to be derived from a more recent Somali/Ethiopian ancestor (EZ813 formed 5300 YBP/TMRCA 4300 YBP).

E-Z813 YTree

www.yfull.com

My haplotype is 2000 years older, it clusters with E-CTS2294 which is the parent of EZ813. It was formed 7000 YBP /TMRCA 5300 YBP.

E-CTS2294 YTree

www.yfull.com

CTS5995/Z818 which is found within E-CTS2994 matches a gravesite in Kulubnarti Nubia. This made me posit whether my ancestor could in fact have assimilated into the Luo and migrated with them to Kenya. Autosomal makeup can change by up to 75% within 2 generations of intermarriage so it's not entirely impossible (or maybe I'm reaching).

Northern Nilotes & Darfurians have been known to carry e1b1b at relatively high rates.

Y-DNA haplogroups (Hassan, 2008):

Dinka (Nilotic):
62% A (Nilotic), 23% B (Nilotic), 15% E1b1b (Cushitic).

Shilluk Luo (Nilotic):
53.3% A (Nilotic), 26.7% B (Nilotic), 20% E1b1b (Cushitic).

Nuer (Nilotic):
33.3% A (Nilotic), 50% B (Nilotic), 16.7% E1b1b (Cushitic).

Fur (Nilo-Saharan):
31.3% A (Nilotic), 3.1% B (Nilotic), 59.4% E1b1b (Cushitic

Nuba:
46.4% A (Nilotic), 14.3% B (Nilotic), 39.3% E1b1b (Cushitic).

Masalit (Nilo-Saharan):
71.9% E1b1b of which 73.9% bear V32, 18.8% A3b2 (Nilotic), 3.1% B (Nilotic/pygmy),.
mtDNA: L0a1 (14.6%) and L1c (12.2%) are most frequent.

Ballemi (2018) found e1b1b to be the most common haplogroup (32%) in a sample of 50 Nuers in Gambella, Ethiopia (see attachment) & I found a Dinka with E-V32 on Tiktok (see attachment).

I guess I'm trying to come to terms with the fact that I carry this much bantu ancestry. I've always been proud of my Nilotic roots so this is very disappointing.

Nothing to be ashamed about your ancestry, but keep in mind a large portion of Kenyan Bantu carry Cushitic ancestry.

I'm not familiar with Living DNA but I've found 23andme is better for horn africans not sure how that would extend to Nilotes and Bantu ancestry.

 

[Nilotic]

A little background:
I'm a Nilote from Western Kenya that has many times been mistaken for a Horner (Somali/Ethiopian) due to my non-Nilotic appearance (lighter skin) and above average height.

Unfortunately, I can't help you with the DNA stuff, however, I must ask... in what world is above average height not one of the most quintessential Nilotic features?

Not to put a too fine point on it... but the only reason East African populations aren't as short as others on the continent is because of us.



Also, almond shaped eyes, high cheekbones, soft skin and long limbs are also ours

Nothing wrong with having Bantu ancestry; you're still Nilotic in the way that still matters -- language and culture

 

[NidarNidar]

Not to put a too fine point on it... but the only reason East African populations aren't as short as others on the continent is because of us.

&

 

[Nilote2]

We got E-V32 Luos before GTA 6 no way

fwiw you probably got ur E-V32 from an Iron Age 'Pastoral Neolithic' type group that assimilated with Kenyan Bantus. Doubt it has much to do with your Nilotic side.

Yes that was my initial assumption but I still find it strange that the surrounding Luhya have a much younger V32 haplotype that fits perfectly with the Somali and Oromo samples.

If we were of the same origin I would expect us to cluster. From what I can tell, all the Kenyan V32 samples are of an East Cushitic origin & they all seem to be Luhya. Their migration into Kenya is also quite recent.

There is another Luo sample right at the base but it's very young, 1900 YBP / TMRCA 1800 YBP (E-Y37091*). For it to be that young and still branch from the base of E-V32 suggests that it might have been brought into Kenya from elsewhere because all the surrounding testers are Saudi.

The Pastoral Neolithic samples in Tanzania all seem to fall under E-M293 and E-V22.
E-M293 is common among the Tutsi of Rwanda and Burundi.

E-M293

E-V22

Furthermore, my maternal haplogroup L0a2b is only found among the Mbuti pygmies in Northeast Congo. They inhabit the Ituri rainforest which borders South Sudan. The population of Ituri province consists of the Alur (Luo), Hema (Tutsi), Lendu (Central Sudanic), Ngiti (bantu), Bira (bantu) and Ndo-Okebo (Central Sudanic),

Asua, Efe and Kango (see pic below) are all Mbuti tribes.

 

[Nilote2]

Unfortunately, I can't help you with the DNA stuff, however, I must ask... in what world is above average height not one of the most quintessential Nilotic features?

Lol there was supposed to be a dot in between. What I meant was that I'm on the lighter side of brown (not chocolate) and non-Nilotic looking in appearance. There have been a few occasions where Horners have mistook me for one of them but I don't really see it to be honest. I think people see my height (6'1") and assume I'm Rwandan because they can't place me. Although bantus are brown skinned they're quite short (1.65-72 m) and Nilotes have very distinct features (dark skin, specific facial appearance). Some dark skinned Malis could in fact pass for Nilotes. Take this guy for example (my brother was in Mandera the other day). If not for the jileec hair, he could pass as a Nilote from behind, because he's quite dark and has a similar build.




Now if you look at me I don't really look like a Nilote. I wouldn't say I look bantu or Cushitic either. But then again, what does a bantu look like?





But if you saw my father you would assume he was Nilotic because he was very dark, quite tall (6'1.5") & doesn't look the least bit bantu. This is what trips me up!



His distant cousin (my neighbour) is at least 6'5"-6'6" (hard to tell in this pic - taken from a flight of stairs) & has a very Nilotic looking face (albeit a bit lighter skinned than our Ugandan counterparts). I definitely wouldn't place him as a bantu.

 

[Nilote2]

Thank you for your input, guess I'm going to have to wait for more samples. If my haplotype at least clustered with other groups I could guess where I'm from. The problem with my ethnic group is that we've migrated over 6 countries and absorbed a lot of people so you will find all types in Kenya (bantu looking, Nilotic looking, ambiguous).

Luo peoples:
Upper Nile : Shilluk
Jonglei State/Gambela : Anuak.
Western Bahr el Ghazal : Luwo, Shatt, Balanda Boor.
Eastern Equatoria : Pari, Acholi.
Northern Uganda : Acholi.
Northeastern Congo /Northwestern Uganda : Alur.
Padhola : Eastern Uganda.
Western Kenya and Northwestern Tanzania : Joluo.