Old documentary exposing tfg and AY's administration post ICU

[Haragwaafi]

Can you explain to me what’s so bad about not going against American interest?

I mean it sounds pretty good to me. They let you apply shariah, bring peace and stability to your country, all you have to do is be compliant to America and not be a pariah state.

Why does the ICU have to tell America they will pray Jummah in Alaska and Addis Ababa? What benefit will the 15 million Somali citizens gain from that?

And in the end, those same ICU joined the US backed government? So they became American cucks anyway. LOL.

Why do you hate Islam?? did American or western life had impact on you ??

 

[Kun_Ciil]

Can you explain to me what’s so bad about not going against American interest?

I mean it sounds pretty good to me. They let you apply shariah, bring peace and stability to your country, all you have to do is be compliant to America and not be a pariah state.

Why does the ICU have to tell America they will pray Jummah in Alaska and Addis Ababa? What benefit will the 15 million Somali citizens gain from that?

And in the end, those same ICU joined the US backed government? So they became American cucks anyway, except they lost all the power they had and gave it to low IQ jihadists. LOL.

Haha when you put it like that it does sound pretty good ? But in reality Saudi or Brunei for example are exceptions in the Muslim world. Saudi as we all know has the bargaining tool of the petrodollar and their state was created way before the war on terror/democracy frenzy..but what do the Somali people have to bargain with? No doubt if we were a resource rich nation and hooked up the USA with easy access to our resources and gave them militiary bases on our coasts...despite let's say ruling by Shariah law domestically they would never have allowed the invasion of Ethiopia in 06 or even let the country plunge into such a long civil war. However, we ain't like the Saudis and we have a neighbour in Ethiopia who America will always ally itself with rather than us due to them being a Christian population.

You're partially right in that at the times we are living in with american hegemony and the nature of world politics, that it would be wiser not to go against American interests. But at the same time doing a deal with America is like doing a deal with the devil...once your interests collide the horns will come out.

And the ICU I agree did go to far with some individuals saying rhetoric like we are going to recapture Ogaden and pray ciid prayer in Adis Adaba. They jumped the gun...how is it possibly wise to threaten your stronger enemy when you're in the infancy stages of rebuilding a state.

At the end of the day being pragmatic with the way things turned out, it would've probably been wiser for the ICU to strike a deal in the talks in Khartoum

 

[repo]

Maybe you didn't know but I participated in this anti Hawiye terrorists war. I put at least 8 in the ground, all Cayr with Waziristani handlers. This is what happens when you mess with the world order.

 

[Kun_Ciil]

Maybe you didn't know but I participated in this anti Hawiye/terrorist war. I put at least 8 in the ground, all Cayr. This is what happens when you mess with the world order. You are exposing nothing.

 

[World]

Haha when you put it like that it does sound pretty good ? But in reality Saudi or Brunei for example are exceptions in the Muslim world. Saudi as we all know has the bargaining tool of the petrodollar and their state was created way before the war on terror/democracy frenzy..but what do the Somali people have to bargain with? No doubt if we were a resource rich nation and hooked up the USA with easy access to our resources and gave them militiary bases on our coasts...despite let's say ruling by Shariah law domestically they would never have allowed the invasion of Ethiopia in 06 or even let the country plunge into such a long civil war. However, we ain't like the Saudis and we have a neighbour in Ethiopia who America will always ally itself with rather than us due to them being a Christian population.

You're partially right in that at the times we are living in with american hegemony and the nature of world politics, that it would be wiser not to go against American interests. But at the same time doing a deal with America is like doing a deal with the devil...once your interests collide the horns will come out.

And the ICU I agree did go to far with some individuals saying rhetoric like we are going to recapture Ogaden and pray ciid prayer in Adis Adaba. They jumped the gun...how is it possibly wise to threaten your stronger enemy when you're in the infancy stages of rebuilding a state.

At the end of the day being pragmatic with the way things turned out, it would've probably been wiser for the ICU to strike a deal in the talks in Khartoum

This is from a letter of condolences written by Salhuldin Al Ayoubi to the Crusader king of Jerusalem, Baldwin IV upon the death of his father. A true statesman and pragmatic diplomat. A decade later Salahuldin liberated Jerusalem and defeated the Crusaders.

 

[Riftvalley]

Can you explain to me what’s so bad about not going against American interest?

I mean it sounds pretty good to me. They let you apply shariah, bring peace and stability to your country, all you have to do is be compliant to America and not be a pariah state.

Why does the ICU have to tell America they will pray Jummah in Alaska and Addis Ababa? What benefit will the 15 million Somali citizens gain from that?

And in the end, those same ICU joined the US backed government? So they became American cucks anyway, except they lost all the power they had and gave it to low IQ jihadists. LOL.

The USA gave Ethiopia the green light to invade when ICU takeover. The decision was already taken before any threats were made.
The warlords defeated by the ICU were already being advised by CIA as part of the war on terror.


USA nor Ethiopian or Arab countries would have accepted them. If you dig through the wiki leaks on Somalia you will see the UAE was one of the first to congratulate the Ethiopians on defeating the ICU.

Ethiopia did what it did many times in the 90s. It’s naive to assume they would not have crossed the border even if ICU Made no threats. Ethiopian doesn’t tolerate anything related to Al itixad Al islamiya in Somalia if they’re not part of the clan state apparatus.

As for the ICU, the had too many groups and interests to ever work.

 

[World]

I dont but its hard not to recognize that they had some level of competence compared to the government, documentaries also highlight the stability they brought

I mean, how can they only last 6 months before getting invaded by America?

That shows a lack of pragmatism and competence. As soon as they had power, they should have been thinking “ok what plans should we take to avoid an american invasion”. But it’s like they done the opposite.

Reach out to Saudi Arabia and Qatar and the US and try to build a strong relationship, show that you’re only trying to build peace. Centralise power, clamp down on Al Shabab extremists. Publicly be friendly to Ethiopia, diplomatic, unthreatening.

Yes it’s pathetic and coonish, but that’s what you do what you’re weak. Show a smiling face to Ethiopia and then spend 20 years bringing stability, economic growth, building your military and intelligence agency. By 2026 they would have been in a strong position to fund rebels in Ethiopia.

 

[Zak12]

ok what plans should we take to avoid an american invasion

Nothing they could do would prevent it. Somalia was on the list of countries to topple by the Bush administration simply because they were Islamist.

 

[World]

Nothing they could do would prevent it. Somalia was on the list of countries to topple by the Bush administration simply because they were Islamist.

The USA gave Ethiopia the green light to invade when ICU takeover. The decision was already taken before any threats were made.
The warlords defeated by the ICU were already being advised by CIA as part of the war on terror.


USA nor Ethiopian or Arab countries would have accepted them. If you dig through the wiki leaks on Somalia you will see the UAE was one of the first to congratulate the Ethiopians on defeating the ICU.

Ethiopia did what it did many times in the 90s. It’s naive to assume they would not have crossed the border even if ICU Made no threats. Ethiopian doesn’t tolerate anything related to Al itixad Al islamiya in Somalia if they’re not part of the clan state apparatus.

As for the ICU, the had too many groups and interests to ever work.

Don’t you guys know that in June 2006, Osama bin Laden was praising the ICU and threatening if America dared to attack them, they will be fought and any country that helps them will be punished?

Somali group cool to bin Laden tape

A powerful Islamic group in Somalia has distanced itself from comments made by al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden, who voiced his support for the Islamists and warned against deploying international forces in lawless Horn of Africa nation.

www.aljazeera.com

Best way to distance yourself from these terrorists is not by ending peace talks with the TFG in Khartoum, attacking them in Baidoa along with attacking Puntland. The TFG represented the internationally recognised government, and had legitimacy in Puntland and SSC. No reason we couldn’t have ended the Somali civil war there and then peacefully. Instead they decided to try conquer them with no negotiations. Where’s the pragmatism in that?

 

[World]

Why do you have to make it about qabiil? ICU consolidated power in Xamar and then had aspirations of being a government since they had control of the capital of Somalia. Isn't Kismayo and Galkacyo a part of Somalia?

Of course the ICU was predominantly Hawiye since the organisation was formed in Xamar. However, there were a lot of different qabiils represented in the organisation. For example, you have Hassan Al turki or Axmed madobe and their fellow ogaden clansmen who were participating in the expansion of the ICU into Kismayo.

View attachment 334913


How could the ICU capture land in Kismayo and most of konfur in the space of 6 months without the support of locals and the participation of various clans in the movement? A hawiye only movement couldn't do it...what was the thing making it so easy? People were fed up of Clan warlords and saw the ICU as unifying force that all clans can come together under and put aside their differences. Why? Because it wasn't built on clans based lines or a 4.5 system, but rather an Islamic system which implemented correctly means that every man is equal.

So if this movement wasn't nipped in the bud, the thing you worrying about Hawiye leadership in Puntland/Sland wouldn't have happened rather your own clansmen would join the ICU and establish the movement in PL/Sland.

This movement was really a tsunami that would've changed the power dynamics of the Horn of Africa and finally united our people....

Puntland was an administration established in 1998. Somaliland peaceful establishment by 1995.

Your regions were ruled by clan warlords, moryaans, and had no stability. Good for the ICU for bringing peace for half a year. But the regions you wanted to conquer already had peaceful administrations for 8-11 years.

Today, they still have peaceful and stable administrations whilst the land of the ICU is controlled by Al Shabab and AMISOM.

TFG was Abdullahi Yusuf who established Puntland, a peacefully agreement between ICU and TFG would have meant all of Somalia would have been united excluding Isaaq/Gadabursi regions.

 

[Riftvalley]

Don’t you guys know that in June 2006, Osama bin Laden was praising the ICU and threatening if America dared to attack them, they will be fought and any country that helps them will be punished?

Somali group cool to bin Laden tape

A powerful Islamic group in Somalia has distanced itself from comments made by al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden, who voiced his support for the Islamists and warned against deploying international forces in lawless Horn of Africa nation.

www.aljazeera.com

Best way to distance yourself from these terrorists is not by ending peace talks with the TFG in Khartoum, attacking them in Baidoa along with attacking Puntland. The TFG represented the internationally recognised government, and had legitimacy in Puntland and SSC. No reason we couldn’t have ended the Somali civil war there and then peacefully. Instead they decided to try conquer them with no negotiations. Where’s the pragmatism in that?

Yeah it would have been better if they made an agreement with the fed gov, consolidated their strength for at least ten years, then blitz through puntland and somaliland.

 

[World]

Yeah it would have been better if they made an agreement with the fed gov, consolidated their strength for at least ten years, then blitz through puntland and somaliland.

Blitz through Puntland? You do know that Abdullahi Yusuf who built Puntland was the fed government.

An agreement with fed government + ICU would only leave Isaaq/Gadabursi regions outside of Somalia.

 

[Heavy Mountains]

Don’t you guys know that in June 2006, Osama bin Laden was praising the ICU and threatening if America dared to attack them, they will be fought and any country that helps them will be punished?

Somali group cool to bin Laden tape

A powerful Islamic group in Somalia has distanced itself from comments made by al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden, who voiced his support for the Islamists and warned against deploying international forces in lawless Horn of Africa nation.

www.aljazeera.com

Best way to distance yourself from these terrorists is not by ending peace talks with the TFG in Khartoum, attacking them in Baidoa along with attacking Puntland. The TFG represented the internationally recognised government, and had legitimacy in Puntland and SSC. No reason we couldn’t have ended the Somali civil war there and then peacefully. Instead they decided to try conquer them with no negotiations. Where’s the pragmatism in that?

It would be difficult for them to distance themselves from AQ, ICU had former AIAI members that held key council positions and AQ operatives like Fazul and Abu Talha al-Sudani.

I think AS would've eventually consolidated power, they controlled the education and security departments and disliked the moderate factions within the ICU.

 

[Zak12]

is not by ending peace talks with the TFG in Khartoum, attacking them

You do realize Ethiopian troops and even American troops were already being mobilized in southern Somalia without the ICU's consent? Its very clear that America wanted to invade Somalia no matter what.

 

[World]

You do realize Ethiopian troops and even American troops were already being mobilized in southern Somalia without the ICU's consent? Its very clear that America wanted to invade Somalia no matter what.

Somali group cool to bin Laden tape

A powerful Islamic group in Somalia has distanced itself from comments made by al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden, who voiced his support for the Islamists and warned against deploying international forces in lawless Horn of Africa nation.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[Zak12]

Somali group cool to bin Laden tape

A powerful Islamic group in Somalia has distanced itself from comments made by al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden, who voiced his support for the Islamists and warned against deploying international forces in lawless Horn of Africa nation.

www.aljazeera.com

Ethiopian troops massed on Somali border - Sudan Tribune

June 16, 2006 (MOGADISHU) — Ethiopian forces are reported to have been deployed along the Somali Border after militias of the Islamic Courts Union have seized towns near the border between Somalia and Ethiopia. Reports from the Somali state of Ethiopia say Ethiopian troops armed with heavy...

sudantribune.com