Omar hit a slave woman with a stick for putting on Hijab and would not allow any slave woman to put it on.

[Angelina]

The text " the verse " is very clear .
Either you don't understand Arabic or your comprehension is very poor.

I asked you at the beginning of our discussion :
Do you know what this part at the end of the verse means " That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused " "ذَٰلِكَ أَدْنَىٰ أَن يُعْرَفْنَ فَلَا يُؤْذَيْنَ" ?

So you’re arguing that free women should be protected and that the Quran saw slave woman as free game for all? If you saying that the hijab was so that women would not be molested, why were slave women not allowed to protect themselves from being molested as well?

or anthor words :
What do you understand from this part at the end of the verse " that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested " " ذَٰلِكَ أَدْنَىٰ أَن يُعْرَفْنَ فَلَا يُؤْذَيْنَ" ?

So only free women shouldn’t be molested? That’s your understanding? Ajeeb.

I will write in Arabic language , maybe you can understand and grasp the meaning:

سألتك في بداية حديثنا
ماذا تفهم من هذة الجزئية في نهاية الآية : " ذَٰلِكَ أَدْنَىٰ أَن يُعْرَفْنَ فَلَا يُؤْذَيْنَ " ؟

Muhsin Khan :
O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed . And Allah is Ever Forgiving, Most Merciful.

That’s a tafsir that’s been added that not all scholars agree upon. It is clearly NOT part of the original verse which is why is a parentheses/brackets are used. Extra information and explanation provided by the person doing the tasfir which is opinion based.

The verse does not strictly say free woman. It only says believing women with some scholars adding in the extra bit regarding free women. It isn’t part of the original verse.It simply isn’t and that’s not the evidence even used by scholars who say that slave woman don’t have to wear hijab. Even Islamqa that believe that slave women don’t have to wear hijab admit that this isn’t strictly mentioned in the Quran. Therefore using Tasfir in which there are different versions and opinions isn’t enough of an evidence. Case in point:

@Aurelian is right, it actually isn’t part of the main Ayah of the Quran and many scholars admit this.

Pickthall: O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.

Just think about the question:
what does recognized and known mean and by whom?

conclusion :

This a decree to women of the believers " free women " to cover themselves so that immoral men who roamed and loitered the outskirts of the city harassing women when women went to empty places outside the city at night to relieve themselves “ to defecate and urinate ” ,
so that those immoral men would would not harm or sexually abuse the women of the believers ,
and also those immoral men would be able to distinguish free women from slave women.

The women of the believers are free women and not slave women .

View attachment 354611

It isn’t clear which why is why you have many scholars like Albani, classical scholars like Ibn Hazm and the list continues admitting that the evidence isn’t strong:

As you can see several scholars do not believe that the verse in question makes a distinction. You can’t even say that this what Allah has uttered as in all versions you’ve posted a parentheses is used and it isn’t even part of the main verse. Hence, how could you argue that Horta? Clearly there are differences in opinion with even scholars who do believe that slave women don’t have to stating that this is for practical purposes rather than Allah directly saying that they shouldn’t. Allah didn’t say that, that’s the interpretation of those doing Tasfir that differs, which is why someone like Ibn Hazm doesn’t recognize that opinion in that particular Tasfir. Get it?

My next point:

The issue and the elephant in the room with your argument, you’re saying that the hijab is a class marker rather than one of modesty. If women’s beauty are a fitnah for society, what’s the difference between a free woman and a non free woman? They’re both biologically female and men will still be attracted to both. In fact a slave woman can be 5x prettier and a temptation than a free woman. You cannot ever logically argue that hijab is about the preventing of immodesty or that its there to help men lower their gaze if you also believe that a young women can walk around topless just because she’s of a lower slave class. Why do you have issues with the west if you believe that slave women can technically wear tank tops? Why be a hypocrite and talk about the West’s issue with immodesty if you believe that woman can dress immodestly provided they’re poor women that aren’t free?


Deep down you know it’s illogical. You either believe that hijab has nothing to do with modesty and it’s a class marker or you believe everyone has to be covered and be modest regardless of class so that EVERYONE is protected.

You can’t have it both ways. There is a reason why modern scholars and Islamic speakers hardly venture into this topic and why even medieval scholars like Ibn Taymiyah resorted to cognitive dissonance and said that slave women in his day and age had to cover since they were a temptation to men in his current climate. Even he could see that you can’t argue both ways. That’s why he noted:

So my question is this, using your common sense, how could you argue that the awrah for free and slave women are different if they still have the same biological parts that men will be attracted to? Would men find me less attractive if I was a slave and does that mean that if I was to strip I’d be less of a temptation? Think about that, but we both know you won’t have a logical explanation.

 

[Angelina]

@Maakhri2024

Another point which shows how weird it is you’re using Tafsir as Quranic evidence is this:

The Noble Qur'an - Al-Ahzab 33:5
O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils)* all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.​

Allah clearly doesn’t say that woman should walk around with only one eye showing, but that’s the tasfir of certain scholars. I use this example to show you how you cannot use Tasfir and say that Allah commanded that. That is why scholars in Islamqa despite agreeing with your assertion that slave women don’t have to wear hijab do not use the Quran as evidence. Do you get it now?

 

[Maakhri2024]

So my question is this, using your common sense, how could you argue that the awrah for free and slave women are different if they still have the same biological parts that men will be attracted to? Would men find me less attractive if I was a slave and does that mean that if I was to strip I’d be less of a temptation? Think about that, but we both know you won’t have a logical explanation.

First of all, in order to be able to delve into these legal issues, it is necessary to fully master the Arabic language.
Since, in my opinion, you do not know Arabic (or your knowledge of it is very limited), you cannot know more than Ibn Abbas or Ibn Mujahid, for example, two great scholars of Arabic language who knew the reasons for revelation, were contemporaries of the great companions of the Prophet and studied from them.

Your opinion or what you think is acceptable or right has no value in the discussion of these legal issues.


you should also be aware of, study and have knowledge of the “circumstances of revelation” of "Asbab al-Nuzul".

Asbab al-Nuzul " أسباب النزول " is the study of the historical context in which the verses of the Quran were revealed. The term is Arabic for "occasions of revelation".

ذلك أدنى أن يعرفن فلا يؤذين
That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused.

What does the word “ they will known يعرفن ” mean in the context of the verse?
or to put it another way:
What does it mean to be recognized and not insulted?

so that "your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers " will known ?

From whom and by whom?
Who will abuse these women?


تفسير القرطبي
وكانت المرأة من نساء المؤمنين قبل نزول هذه الآية تتبرز للحاجة فيتعرض لها بعض الفجار يظن أنها أمة ، فتصيح به فيذهب ، فشكوا ذلك إلى النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ونزلت الآية بسبب ذلك

Interpretation of Al-Qurtubi :
Before this verse was revealed, a believing woman would go out to the streets to relieve herself " Defecating and urinating " and some evil people would come to her, thinking that she was a slave, so she would shout at him and he would go away. women of the believers complained about this to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), and the verse was revealed because of that.


تفسير بن كثير
وقوله : ( ذلك أدنى أن يعرفن فلا يؤذين ) أي : إذا فعلن ذلك عرفن أنهن حرائر ، لسن بإماء ولا عواهر ، قال السدي في قوله تعالى : ( [ يا أيها النبي ] قل لأزواجك وبناتك ونساء المؤمنين يدنين عليهن من جلابيبهن ذلك أدنى أن يعرفن فلا يؤذين ) قال : كان ناس من فساق أهل المدينة يخرجون بالليل حين يختلط الظلام إلى طرق المدينة ، يتعرضون للنساء ، وكانت مساكن أهل المدينة ضيقة ، فإذا كان الليل خرج النساء إلى الطرق يقضين حاجتهن ، فكان أولئك الفساق يبتغون ذلك منهن ، فإذا رأوا امرأة عليها جلباب قالوا : هذه حرة ، كفوا عنها . وإذا رأوا المرأة ليس عليها جلباب ، قالوا : هذه أمة . فوثبوا إليها

Interpretation of Ibn Kathir :

And His statement: (That is more likely that they will be known and not be abused) meaning: If they " women of the believers " do that " bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments ", they will be known that they are free women, not slaves or prostitutes. Al-Suddi said regarding the statement of Allah the Almighty: (O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more likely that they will be known and not be abused) He said: Some of the wicked people of Madinah would go out at night when darkness fell to the streets of Madinah, harassing women. The houses of the people of Madinah were narrow, so when night fell, the women would go out to the streets to relieve themselves " Defecating and urinating " , and those wicked people would seek that from women. If they saw a woman wearing a cloak "hijab / jilbab",
they would say: This is a free woman, so they would refrain from her.
And if they saw a woman not wearing a cloak "hijab / jilbab",
they would say: This is a slave woman, so they would jump on them / her .

تفسير بن كثير
وقال مجاهد : يتجلببن فيعلم أنهن حرائر ، فلا يتعرض لهن فاسق بأذى ولا ريبة

Interpretation of Ibn Kathir :
Mujahid said: They cover themselves so that it is known that they are free women and no immoral person will harm them or cause them suspicion.