Once upon a time there was a debate between two Muslim scholars at Abbasid caliph's court

[Aurelian]

 

[Angelina]

Early Islamic history was fascinating and a tad wild.

This is a little out of context but at one point different madhabs used to have their own taraweh and prayers in the Harram and some would take it so far as to not marry from a different madhab lol.

Don’t get me started on some scholars rivalry as well.

Reading about early Muslims has to be one of my favorite past times, especially Islamic empires like the Ummayads and Abbasids. Who needs game of thrones when you can read about their wars and backstabbing.

 

[Aurelian]

Early Islamic history was fascinating and a tad wild.

This is a little out of context but at one point different madhabs used to have their own taraweh and prayers in the Harram and some would take it so far as to not marry from a different madhab lol.

Don’t get me started on some scholars rivalry as well.

Reading about early Muslims has to be one of my favorite past times, especially Islamic empires like the Ummayads and Abbasids. Who needs game of thrones when you read about their wars and backstabbing.

It was rich time, especially on the view points, some couples even split on these theological debates.

 

[Angelina]

It was rich time, especially on the view points, some couples even split on these theological debates.

It’s insane how some were dogmatic but at the same time, there was a variety of opinions us modern Muslims will never be savvy to. To think that were several different Madhabs outside of the 4 which are no longer in existence or much like the Zahiri school of thought which I find fascinating. The Calipha’s of Andalusia and scholars who are still well known like Ibn Hazim were Zahiri

The biggest tragedy of the Mongol empire was the burning of the Baghdadi Libraries that housed thousands of Islamic texts.

Question: Do you still reject many Hadiths and what lead you take that stance?

 

[Aurelian]

It’s insane how some were dogmatic but at the same time, there was a variety of opinions us modern Muslims will never be savvy to. To think that were several different Madhabs outside of the 4 which are no longer in existence or much like the Zahiri school of thought which I find fascinating. The Calipha’s of Andalusia and scholars who are still well known like Ibn Hazim were Zahiri

The biggest tragedy of the Mongol empire was the burning of the Baghdadi Libraries that housed thousands of Islamic texts.

Question: Do you still reject many Hadiths and what lead you take that stance?

Yes, I do, because I find them contradicting the Quran.

 

[Angelina]

Yes, I do, because I find them contradicting the Quran.

Why do you think those that are even more knowledgeable than you when it comes to the Quran and Hadith not come to the same conclusion?

I’m not arguing with you, I’m interested in picking your brains. I don’t get to have these conversations in real life with those that are skeptical of Hadiths.

 

[Aurelian]

Why do you think those that are even more knowledgeable than you when it comes to the Quran and Hadith not come to the same conclusion?

Sorry, I don't get what you mean, it was a long day

 

[Angelina]

Sorry, I don't get what you mean, it was a long day

Why do you think Islamic scholars didn’t come to the conclusion that a lot of Hadiths contradict Quraan?

 

[Aurelian]

Why do you think Islamic scholars didn’t come to the conclusion that a lot of Hadiths contradict Quraan?

I don't know any scholar who had the same idea, because I didn't researched if they are any, but some hadiths contradict the quran

 

[Angelina]

I don't know any scholar who had the same idea, because I didn't researched if they are any, but some hadiths contradict the quran

You’re not getting me. Hardly any scholars have your views. Why is it despite their many years of learning Quran and Hadith have they not come to the same conclusion as you? Why do they accept Hadiths that you argue contradict the Quran? They clearly don’t see it that way?

 

[Aurelian]

You’re not getting me. Hardly any scholars have your views. Why is it despite their many years of learning Quran and Hadith have they not come to the same conclusion as you? Why do they accept Hadiths that you argue contradict the Quran? They clearly don’t see it that way?

Idk, why they have different views? Why a madhab says dog is not najas even its saliva you don't need to wash and udu' before praying but another one says it is and you need such and such way to wash and then do udu'?

Mind you these two madhabs are sunni the big 4, and both used hadiths and Quran as sources

 

[Angelina]

Idk, why they have different views? Why a madhab says dog is not najas even its saliva you don't need to wash and udu' before praying but another one says it is and you need such and such way to wash and then do udu'?

Mind you these two madhabs are sunni the big 4, and both used hadiths and Quran as sources

Yes but my point is if the Hadiths clearly contradict the Quran surely men who are more knowledgeable would have came up with the exact same conclusion? What makes you different with how the rest of Muslims for at least 1100 yrs see things?

 

[reer]

It’s insane how some were dogmatic but at the same time, there was a variety of opinions us modern Muslims will never be savvy to. To think that were several different Madhabs outside of the 4 which are no longer in existence or much like the Zahiri school of thought which I find fascinating. The Calipha’s of Andalusia and scholars who are still well known like Ibn Hazim were Zahiri

The biggest tragedy of the Mongol empire was the burning of the Baghdadi Libraries that housed thousands of Islamic texts.

Question: Do you still reject many Hadiths and what lead you take that stance?

yeah

 

[Aurelian]

Yes but my point is if the Hadiths clearly contradict the Quran surely men who are more knowledgeable would have came up with the exact same conclusion? What makes you different with how the rest of Muslims for at least 1100 yrs see things?

What?

One search at the internet I can find hadiths that contradict the Quran, and examples of scholars debating that, for example Abu Alghazali authored a book where he argued that the Quran should has the final saying on making rules and judgments over hadiths, especially with the odd hadiths, on cases that are complicated or ambiguous .

 

[Angelina]

What?

One search at the internet I can find hadiths that contradict the Quran, and examples of scholars debating that, for example Abu Alghazali authored a book where he argued that the Quran should has the final saying on making rules and judgments over hadiths, especially with the odd hadiths, on cases that are complicated or ambiguous .

Why would the same scholars that say the Quran comes first prioritize Hadiths that you argue contradict the Hadith? 95% of Somalis believe in all the Sahih Hadiths.

 

[Keep it a boqol]

lmao jonathan brown as a source ? This guys a self proclaimed scholar and is a straight up deviant who has no credentials

 

[Angelina]

lmao jonathan brown as a source ? This guys a self proclaimed scholar and is a straight up deviant who has no credentials

He’s not a scholar but a Western Academic that looks at early Islamic sources.

Some things have been written down by early Muslims and their manuscript survives so deviant or not, somethings are simply true from a historical vantage.

 

[Aurelian]

Why would the same scholars that say the Quran comes first prioritize Hadiths that you argue contradict the Hadith? 95% of Somalis believe in all the Sahih Hadiths.

Prioritizing hadith? as i said, the scholars couldn't not agree if the saliva of the dog is najas or not, while using hadiths as source, each of them had reasoning, but that doesn't mean some didn't questions some hadiths, in fact, some hadiths were discredited in the last century by a guy called Al-Albani. Why he could see through these hadiths but the last 1000 years no other scholar did the same?

 

[Angelina]

Prioritizing hadith? as i said, the scholars couldn't not agree if the saliva of the dog is najas or not, while using hadiths as source, each of them had reasoning, but that doesn't mean some didn't questions some hadiths,

Yes, but they didn’t question it the way you do. Most were in agreement that most of the Hadiths classified as strong by Bukhari are indeed accurate (I’m talking about the scholars that existed after the complications of the Hadith). We actually don’t have a lot of scholars who have rejected a large body of ‘sahih’ Hadiths.

in fact, some hadiths were discredited in the last century by a guy called Al-Albani. Why he could see through these hadiths but the last 1000 years no other scholar did the same?

Yes and Al-bani then proceeded to make certain Hadiths that were seen as weak as strong like the hadith in which the Prophet s.a.w said if was to make anyone bow down to anyone other than Allah, it would be a woman to her husband.

Someone like you would argue that this seems like it contracts the Quran via context alone, Albani clearly didn’t see it that way.

Also, whilst he didn’t weaken some Hadiths, most he left as Sahih and even made many Hadiths seen as weak as ‘Sahih’ like I demonstrated above.

 

[Aurelian]

Yes, but they didn’t question it the way you do. Most were in agreement that most of the Hadiths classified as strong by Bukhari are indeed accurate (I’m talking about the scholars that existed after the complications of the Hadith). We actually don’t have a lot of scholars who have rejected a large body of ‘sahih’ Hadiths.

Yes and Al-bani then proceeded to make certain Hadiths that were seen as weak as strong like the woman in which the Prophet s.a.w said if was to make anyone bow down to anyone other than Allah, it would be a woman to her husband.

Someone like you would argue that this seems like it contracts the Quran via context alone, Albani clearly didn’t see it that way.

Also, whilst he didn’t weaken some Hadiths, most he left as Sahih and even made many Hadiths seen as weak as ‘Sahih’ like I demonstrated above.

Women ruku' to her husband, did that needed a expert to say it is weak hadith?