Political Discussion: Why Somalia is failed state

[Suldaanka]

ok its my opinion. walahi im not attacking you im just saying what i have eperienced in all my time in puntland over 4 years experience on and off. i have never met a local seccessionist. im only talking about promoting seccessionist openly would get you arrested. your opinion wont get you arrested. you can support seccessionism but not promote it.

Adiga sxb caruura aan Puntland joogin ama ku so koorin baad la hadleysa.
There is no such thing as a secessionist in puntland. Even political discord among the people they would be in jail.
Cidanka cid ama psf sujuda ama waaba la xiir laha muuda. Same with Sl

 

[Abdurahman_somali]

In that' sense would you say countries like Kenya and Tanzania are failures as Somalia considering you said all African countries are failures..

Mate you are loosing your argument either rephrase your definition of failure and success in this subject or go back to the drawing board to establish wht really caused the fall of the Somali republic..

1) Somalis can't be ruled by dictatorship As we are too much of a free spirited people.

2)foreign interventions post 1977

3) extreme form of never ending onion layered tribalism are the root causes of our lack of stability

4) colonial border has contributed to our problems from the get go.


These are reasons much stronger than wht you suggested.

I don't know if im not clear enough but again for you a last time. Whether it is Kenya, Tanzania or any other african nation. They are all failures one more than the other. The paramter to assess a State is the classification in a developing country and industrialized country. I repeat myself all African nations started as developing countrys and still are to this day. What they all have in common is that they weren't states before just a bunch of tribes and people forced to share a country and second the weren't states just tribes and people who had territories where the were living in. These tribes an people were in most cases enemies who would fight for land and ressources. And suddenly after the white arrivedd man came they had to all live together in one State and this was the first mistake and cause for the uncountable wars in African States.

All your mentioned reasons are not deep and give no explanations for our problems.
1) Dictatorship isn't a cause for our failure. The cause is what a said we never had a state in its basic from. By that i mean MSB came in charge after the murder of our President AUN. Where was the constitution, the Parlamient, the executive, the judicative ? Where was the law how we elect a new president and if there was a law why was not acted upon it ? Because of our lack of knowledge for statehood MSB formed the very young democracy into a dictatorship. But first we have to ask why he could turn the nation so easily into a dictatorship ? The answer i gave above. There was no institutions and we couldn't handle this situation.

2) foreign influence is also not a cause for our problems. The only one influencing Somalia was ethopia. A third world country which had its own problems (even more than somalia) and less to non financial opportunities. But if we say so the question is how could ethopia influence somalias people. It began with a political suicide with the 77 war with all the consequences like hundred thousands of refuges and a very high inflation. After that many people questioned the kacaan which camw into power iligal in the first place. Someone with political experience would say the solution is to held elections or at least guarantee the people more rights but the kacaan reacted with repression and more repression to its people and certain tribes which caused the formation of rebel groups. These rebel groups were all of the tribes who felt marginalised specially the Isaaq tribe. And there were many other tribes with other rebel groups. So the government which should be equal to all Somalis favoured certain tribes and disliked others. Yes the rebel groups were based on qabyalad But only because this government refused somalinimo in the first place and used qabyalad. So injustice and inappropriate use of the power by the government and a political cluelessness (the 77war, repression instead of actually listening to the people) led to the civil war. foreign influence is at the best only a side note.

 

[Abdurahman_somali]

I will agree with you, however there is one thing I believe you should add.

The USC and SNM failed to set up a provisional government. This turned into chaos-culminating in the hit movie Black Hawk Down, where Bantus replaced Somalis in Xamar. This could of worked, even if they just had a few clans or a select few in power this would prevent the fractions from popping up everywhere in Somalia.

Feel free to add or remove

I don't disagree with that but i blame more the USC which declared presidency all of a sudden without talking to the others. This is just what destroyed the country under MSB. But yes SNM also made also mistakes no doubt about that they only fought siad barre and his injustice but didn't change the system that's why the corruption and political cluelessness is worse than during than kacaan.

 

[Abdurahman_somali]

1. Recognizes somalis have a tribal issue

2. Their solution is clan states where they'll kill each other, form rebel groups and eventually advocate for even smaller clan states within their clan state


68 iq is no joke dawg

If you refer to me, i just analysed but never gave solutions or said we have to do this or that. It's a political discussion and if you have ideas to solve the mentioned problems.. Ahlan wa Sahlan

 

[Abdurahman_somali]

Diaspora not going backhome to start small bussiness' is whats Keeping Somalia a Failed State. Many small companies would make a big difference.

Agreed 100 %. The question is how do you bring a bunch of qualified diaspora somalis back in the single most corrupt in the world, where their taxes Will be used for some politicians personal advantages.

 

[Abdurahman_somali]

Because of Somalis themselves. Generally filled with cuqdad against anything but their own, just look at how minority tribes are treated

Yes true because as I said we never really knew each other we had sub tribes identities even till this day. Everything my subtribe does is perfect and what other subtribes do is nonsense. Thats most of our logic. Do you think farmaajo would have the same support of his subtribe if he was MX. I don't think so. Same applies for every Subtribe.

 

[SomaliSteel]

Every state in Africa is artificial. We are the least because of ethnicity, religion, and culture. While there was no unitary state, their were alliances from the various Somali kingdoms during various invasions. There was trade and friendship. The main issue for Somalia was the dictatorship and the fact that our territory was given away by the Brits

 

[Abdurahman_somali]

Every state in Africa is artificial. We are the least because of ethnicity, religion, and culture. While there was no unitary state, their were alliances from the various Somali kingdoms during various invasions. There was trade and friendship. The main issue for Somalia was the dictatorship and the fact that our territory was given away by the Brits

I completely disagree with your first point walaal. There is nothing really known about this kingdoms, their structures and their alliances. The Somali tribes pre colonial era were in most time in tribal wars with each other. Read for example the 'silsilada Guba'. They were just a bunch of jahilin fighting for their subtribe. Yes rivals enemies married with each other for example ogaden and GX but this enmity between this subtribes stayed the same in the modern somali state. Look at the operation "Dabargoynta Isaaq" of the Ogadeen clan.

But i agree partly with your second point. The 77 war wouldn't happend if the British wouldn't given away ogaden and NFD but still you have the same problems of corruption, no constitution which is acted upon, no institutions to protect the constitution, favouring clans over others and so on...

 

[Abdurahman_somali]

*One has to go through 100 years of war before one can form a country.

*Ajuuraan and whatever the others called were not nation states (if you don't know the history of ajuuraan then Please ask to be thought don't disrespect that which you have no knowledge of.)

*European countries are success African countries are failures.(European countries are better off due to stealing from the countries you are shaming) ..besides there are plenty countries that have not been around for more than 100 years that are more advanced than your so called succesful countries..

*Having different types of people sharing a nation is unviable..( then why are the western countries taking 100.000s of immigrants every year from other countries?


You are too much influenced by western standards of wht a nation should be and what it shouldn't be..

My last answer for you:

Never said a state has to have 100 years wars. I i said that this normal for almost every new country and why should somalia different. Proof me that this statement is wrong ???
1) We know nothing about Ajuuran we were talking about the failure of the Somali nation between 1960-1991. How could some bring up Ajuraan ? that doesn't make sense at all
2)You are living in one of those western counties, because they succeeded in nation building or i am wrong ? Why are all these somalis refugees coming to the western world and leaving their home and risking their live ? Simple Answer because in this western countries there are institutions like independents courts, a functioning police force, a education system on high standards, medical institutions. The individual rights are protected on very high level. Secondly they have countless economic opportunities for the individual. This are facts why are u arguing to prove your senseless points ?? Millions of people are flee from their countries to come into this western world like your and my family.
Tell this countries who randomly became success Storys and are better than these westeners ? i challenge you to even metion a few.
3) Never said that. I said Somalis or african never agreed on their borders in other words the african tribes and ethnics were forced to join in to a new state without them having any choice. Ya Ilahi yaqaan.. whats has this to with Europeans taking refugees ?

4) The definition of a state has nothing to with westerners, statehood is defined in many different sciences and i gave you a simplistic definition in law. you are arguing like typical somali from the makhayad with no arguments just childish accusations......"Isaaq Victimization", "influeced by westerns" and bla bla

I don't like the western world i just stated some facts. We were talking about Statehood and in that they succeeded like non others in the past 200 to 300 years. But their morals are shi'***t. We are muslims and in fact i said there is only a singe state in history of humanity which was built of nothing during 23 years and it was the prophet Mohammed SCW and the Islamic State. Justice, state Institutions, building of an islamic identity rather than clan identity is all something our Prophet SCW began.

 

[Reer-Bari]

Adiga sxb caruura aan Puntland joogin ama ku so koorin baad la hadleysa.
There is no such thing as a secessionist in puntland. Even political discord among the people they would be in jail.
Cidanka cid ama psf sujuda ama waaba la xiir laha muuda. Same with Sl

i know they dont undstand its litterally a crime and it should be. its a disease

 

[Suldaanka]

i know they dont undstand its litterally a crime and it should be. its a disease

Waa iiska faan. They dont know that reer Bosaso run all Puntland.

 

[PrinceofKarkaar]

where in the constitution does it say you can't have opinion to leave somalia? show me now.

ok so one kid that got arrested is your argument? also why do you think you know more about pl than the rest of us? get off your high horse and the gibberish you're spewing.

I dont know if you can or cannot but i just left puntland and i always engage people about politics. they look down upon seccessionist. they curse them more than anyother group. puntlanders believe they own xamar and kismaayo. why would they give that up

 

[GBTarmy]

I dont know if you can or cannot but i just left puntland and i always engage people about politics. they look down upon seccessionist. they curse them more than anyother group. puntlanders believe they own xamar and kismaayo. why would they give that up

lol own xamar that's just the delusional people. it's an option and in our constitution someone linked it read before quoting me

 

[SomaliWadaniSoldier]

We should split like the Arab Gulfs.

Lets recognize all mini states to form their own country.