Problem with predestination

[Bundasliga]

Yeah man, you know nothing about what are you talking about. if you read the whole hadith and quran verses you might would have understand but i don't blame you it was destined for you to not understand it :D

see a doctor if you are serious
View attachment 194160

Keep insulting & dodge my points

Ever heard of leibniz 'twin train theory'?

Qadar is one of the aspects of aqidah. Muslims believe that the divine destiny is when God wrote down in the Preserved Tablet (al-lawh al-mahfooz [ar]) (several other spellings are used for this in English) all that has happened and will happen, which will come to pass as written. According to this belief, a person's action is not caused by what is written in the preserved tablet, but rather the action is written in the tablet because God already knows all occurrences without the restrictions of time.On the other hand, the causal relationships are also part of Qadar, since human acts affect what is stated in the Preserved Tablet. The phrase reflects a Muslim doctrine that Allah has measured out the span of every person's life, their lot of good or ill fortune, and the fruits of their efforts. Again Allah does not need to force anyone to do good or evil by interfering with his will, and nobody will bear witness that Allah did so. When referring to the future, Muslims frequently qualify any predictions of what will come to pass with the phrase Insha'Allah, Arabic for "if God willed [it]." The phrase recognizes that human knowledge of the future is limited, and that all that may or may not come to pass is under the control and knowledge of God.

However, people are not predestined by Allah to enter Hell. Rather, people will only bear their own sins that they themselves committed with free will and no one will be responsible for another person's deeds. The Quran holds that no man will be treated unjustly and everything will be judged by Allah. The Quran says this in the following verse:

" Say: You will not be questioned as to what we are guilty of, nor shall we be questioned as to what you do. Say: Our Lord will gather us together, then will He judge between us with the truth; and He is the greatest Judge, the All-knowing."

— Quran 34:25-26

They will cry out to them: Were we not with you? They shall say: "Yes! but "you caused yourselves to fall into temptation, and you waited and doubted, and vain desires deceived you till the threatened punishment of Allah came, while the archdeceiver deceived you about Allah."

— Quran 57:14

And if Allah had known any good in them He would have made them hear, and if He makes them hear they would turn back while they withdraw.

— Quran 8:23

Nor would thy Lord be the One to destroy communities for a single wrong-doing, if its members were likely to mend. If thy Lord had so willed, He could have made mankind one people: but they will not cease to dispute. Except those on whom thy Lord hath bestowed His Mercy: and for this did He create them: and the Word of thy Lord shall be fulfilled: "I will fill Hell with jinns and men all together."

— Quran 11:119

No calamity befalls on the earth or in yourselves but is inscribed in the Book of Decrees (al-lawh al-mahfooz), before We bring it into existence. Verily, that is easy for Allah.

— Quran 57:22

A hadith reports that Muhammad said about Qadr:

Ali narrated that one day the Messenger of Allah was sitting with a wooden stick in his hand with which he was scratching the ground. He raised his head and said, “There is none of you, but has his place assigned either in the Fire or in Paradise.” They (the Companions) inquired, “O Allah’s Messenger! Why should we carry on doing good deeds, shall we depend (upon Qadar) and give up work?” Muhammad said: “No, carry on doing good deeds, for everyone will find it easy (to do) such deeds that will lead him towards that for which he has been created.” Then he recited the verse: “As for him who gives (in charity) and keeps his duty to Allah and fears Him, and believes in al-Husna, We will make smooth for him the path of Ease (goodness) (Surah al-Lail 92:5-7). Sahih Muslim

However, it is made clear that no person has the power to benefit or harm himself or others, and that guidance is only given by Allah, no one else has the power to give guidance. The Quran says:

For those who do good is good (reward) and more (than this); and blackness or ignominy shall not cover their faces; these are the dwellers of the garden; in it they shall abide.

— Quran 10:26

So the quran argues for both free will & pre-destination you focused only on 1 so the question again how can they not coexist as I explained & demonstrated ?

 

[Sheikh Google]

Keep insulting & dodge my points

Ever heard of leibniz 'twin train theory'?

Qadar is one of the aspects of aqidah. Muslims believe that the divine destiny is when God wrote down in the Preserved Tablet (al-lawh al-mahfooz [ar]) (several other spellings are used for this in English) all that has happened and will happen, which will come to pass as written. According to this belief, a person's action is not caused by what is written in the preserved tablet, but rather the action is written in the tablet because God already knows all occurrences without the restrictions of time.On the other hand, the causal relationships are also part of Qadar, since human acts affect what is stated in the Preserved Tablet. The phrase reflects a Muslim doctrine that Allah has measured out the span of every person's life, their lot of good or ill fortune, and the fruits of their efforts. Again Allah does not need to force anyone to do good or evil by interfering with his will, and nobody will bear witness that Allah did so. When referring to the future, Muslims frequently qualify any predictions of what will come to pass with the phrase Insha'Allah, Arabic for "if God willed [it]." The phrase recognizes that human knowledge of the future is limited, and that all that may or may not come to pass is under the control and knowledge of God.

However, people are not predestined by Allah to enter Hell. Rather, people will only bear their own sins that they themselves committed with free will and no one will be responsible for another person's deeds. The Quran holds that no man will be treated unjustly and everything will be judged by Allah. The Quran says this in the following verse:

" Say: You will not be questioned as to what we are guilty of, nor shall we be questioned as to what you do. Say: Our Lord will gather us together, then will He judge between us with the truth; and He is the greatest Judge, the All-knowing."

— Quran 34:25-26

They will cry out to them: Were we not with you? They shall say: "Yes! but "you caused yourselves to fall into temptation, and you waited and doubted, and vain desires deceived you till the threatened punishment of Allah came, while the archdeceiver deceived you about Allah."

— Quran 57:14

And if Allah had known any good in them He would have made them hear, and if He makes them hear they would turn back while they withdraw.

— Quran 8:23

Nor would thy Lord be the One to destroy communities for a single wrong-doing, if its members were likely to mend. If thy Lord had so willed, He could have made mankind one people: but they will not cease to dispute. Except those on whom thy Lord hath bestowed His Mercy: and for this did He create them: and the Word of thy Lord shall be fulfilled: "I will fill Hell with jinns and men all together."

— Quran 11:119

No calamity befalls on the earth or in yourselves but is inscribed in the Book of Decrees (al-lawh al-mahfooz), before We bring it into existence. Verily, that is easy for Allah.

— Quran 57:22

A hadith reports that Muhammad said about Qadr:

Ali narrated that one day the Messenger of Allah was sitting with a wooden stick in his hand with which he was scratching the ground. He raised his head and said, “There is none of you, but has his place assigned either in the Fire or in Paradise.” They (the Companions) inquired, “O Allah’s Messenger! Why should we carry on doing good deeds, shall we depend (upon Qadar) and give up work?” Muhammad said: “No, carry on doing good deeds, for everyone will find it easy (to do) such deeds that will lead him towards that for which he has been created.” Then he recited the verse: “As for him who gives (in charity) and keeps his duty to Allah and fears Him, and believes in al-Husna, We will make smooth for him the path of Ease (goodness) (Surah al-Lail 92:5-7). Sahih Muslim

However, it is made clear that no person has the power to benefit or harm himself or others, and that guidance is only given by Allah, no one else has the power to give guidance. The Quran says:

For those who do good is good (reward) and more (than this); and blackness or ignominy shall not cover their faces; these are the dwellers of the garden; in it they shall abide.

— Quran 10:26

So the quran argues for both free will & pre-destination you focused only on 1 so the question again how can they not coexist as I explained & demonstrated ?

Personally I like what you are trying to say and clear up the issues but Qur'an and Sunnah heavily support the concept of predestination. There's also many hadith and classical tafsir opinions that point to the concept of al qadr rather than the idea of free will. This is where the issues arise as the contradictions between the two can mean that we will sit here and argue for days. We ain't gonna solve a conundrum that has troubled even the great ulema of the past. If it works for you it works for you though and thats all that matters.

 

[Bundasliga]

Personally I like what you are trying to say and clear up the issues but Qur'an and Sunnah heavily support the concept of predestination. There's also many hadith and classical tafsir opinions that point to the concept of al qadr rather than the idea of free will. This is where the issues arise as the contradictions between the two can mean that we will sit here and argue for days. We ain't gonna solve a conundrum that has troubled even the great ulema of the past. If it works for you it works for you though and thats all that matters.

Bro then either I dont understand yall or yall dont understand me.
I got no issue with the quran supporting pre destination I'm arguing both can co exist as the Quran & hadith mentions .
Free will & pre-destination .
His whole point is we have no choice & God chooses for us which is incorrect

 

[Sheikh Google]

Bro then either I dont understand yall or yall dont understand me.
I got no issue with the quran supporting pre destination I'm arguing both can co exist as the Quran & hadith mentions .
Free will & pre-destination .
His whole point is we have no choice & God chooses for us which is incorrect

It depends I personally lean more to the two not co existing as that's the way I see it when I go through all the evidence. Then again I can see a point of how it can exist but for me it requires a little bit of mental gymnastics. It is what it is. Like I said this is a topic that has sprouted many schools of theology we ain't gonna break it down once and for all on SS lol.

 

[NeseN]

My favourite subject where you while ( ; ) forever

 

[Bundasliga]

It depends I personally lean more to the two not co existing as that's the way I see it when I go through all the evidence. Then again I can see a point of how it can exist but for me it requires a little bit of mental gymnastics. It is what it is. Like I said this is a topic that has sprouted many schools of theology we ain't gonna break it down once and for all on SS lol.

Yeah let's leave it at that

 

[Liiban Ali]

According to this belief, a person's action is not caused by what is written in the preserved tablet, but rather the action is written in the tablet because God already knows all occurrences without the restrictions of time.

So, God knew what you will do and you don't, and that gives you a sense of free will, even though its false one.

 

[Liiban Ali]

We don't have free will.

 

[Psychologist]

So, God knew what you will do and you don't, and that gives you a sense of free will, even though its false one.

even if god knew what we would have done, why would he take his time to write it down when we would do it regardless of if he writes it or not.
if i watch a soccer game and i rewatch it but this time i claim that i destined that Y to pass to X,
Did i really destined Y to pass to X or i just knew that it would happened because i seen the game before? i see the game before, so god claiming that he destined for us to do some stuff isn't because he seen it its because he planned it. thats what he wanted to happen not what we wanted.

 

[Bundasliga]

So, God knew what you will do and you don't, and that gives you a sense of free will, even though its false one.

Me knowing the future or not has nothing to do with idea of "free will",

Btw there's no 100% free will we have limits as humans by default,
The meaning of "free will" as I use it : obey God fully / submit your will to the will of God that's by your own CHOICE

We don't have free will.

Go & rob a bank & tell the judge its not your fault, because you don't choose to do it

even if god knew what we would have done, why would he take his time to write it down when we would do it regardless of if he writes it or not.

God isn't limited by time
Idk ask God

Did i really destined Y to pass to X or i just knew that it would happened because i seen the game before? i see the game before, so god claiming that he destined for us to do some stuff isn't because he seen it its because he planned it. thats what he wanted to happen not what we wanted

You saying God doesn't destined he planned ,but
thats literally the definition of destined ...
"intend or choose for a particular purpose or end"
& your right on the last point
We always submit to God's will anyway whether we want or not

 

[Psychologist]

Me knowing the future or not has nothing to do with idea of "free will",

Btw there's no 100% free will we have limits as humans by default,
The meaning of "free will" as I use it : obey God fully / submit your will to the will of God that's by your own CHOICE

Go & rob a bank & tell the judge its not your fault, because you don't choose to do it


God isn't limited by time
Idk ask God


You saying God doesn't destined he planned ,but
thats literally the definition of destined ...
"intend or choose for a particular purpose or end"
& your right on the last point
We always submit to God's will anyway whether we want or not

Me knowing the future or not has nothing to do with idea of "free will",

Btw there's no 100% free will we have limits as humans by default,
The meaning of "free will" as I use it : obey God fully / submit your will to the will of God that's by your own CHOICE

not when you claim you destined it.
Now using the excuse "we have limit free will"

God isn't limited by time
Idk ask God

you know what i meant but okay. Which one??

ou saying God doesn't destined he planned ,but
thats literally the definition of destined ...
"intend or choose for a particular purpose or end"
& your right on the last point
We always submit to God's will anyway whether we want or not

meaning of predestination and destined
Al-Qadr is the concept that Allah knows everything and has already decided everything that will happen.
certain to meet (a particular fate).
intended for or traveling toward (a particular place).

Not responding to you anymore

 

[Bundasliga]

not when you claim you destined it.
Now using the excuse "we have limit free will"

You said God didn't destined he planned,but described the actions of destined .
Playing semantics .
Its not an excuse its reality we have free will on OUR choice to submit to God or not .
Everywhere else you have a limited to none influence, you don't need to play dumb

meaning of predestination and destined
Al-Qadr is the concept that Allah knows everything and has already decided everything that will happen.
certain to meet (a particular fate).
intended for or traveling toward (a particular place).

Not responding to you anymore

& I agree fully with that
Al qadr includes our choices that God granted us

 

[Liiban Ali]

Go & rob a bank & tell the judge its not your fault, because you don't choose to do it

No one is stupid and courageous enough to do that. Even if someone did do that, in your logic, wouldn't God have known that he would do that? After all, God knows everything. In that case, it was already set in stone, in your logic, that the man would do all that and bring problems in the court and get sentected to at least 20 years lol. If you say otherwise, then God doesn't know everything, which is blasphemy.

There's no free will there

 

[Bundasliga]

No one is stupid and courageous enough to do that. Even if someone did do that, in your logic, wouldn't God have known that he would do that? After all, God knows everything. In that case, it was already set in stone, in your logic, that the man would do all that and bring problems in the court and get sentected to at least 20 years lol. If you say otherwise, then God doesn't know everything, which is blasphemy.

There's no free will there

I said judge you talking about God
Wlh only low iq people here
You absolutely demonstrated nothing & thought you did something

 

[Liiban Ali]

I said judge you talking about God
Wlh only low iq people here
You absolutely demonstrated nothing & thought you did something

Yes, because predestination has something to do with God. The judge was from your example. You either don't understand me or I am missing something.

 

[Bundasliga]

Yes, because predestination has something to do with God. The judge was from your example. You either don't understand me or I am missing something.

I was responding to your claim "free will doesnt exist "
If you believe you have no choice and/or will then rob a bank & tell the judge you are innocent because God made me do it you had no other choice therefore you can't be hold accountable

 

[Liiban Ali]

ok

 

[Bundasliga]

ok

 

[Sheikh Google]

View attachment 194860

Warya didn't I tell you to leave this convoluted mess of a topic alone.

 

[Bundasliga]

Warya didn't I tell you to leave this convoluted mess of a topic alone.

I have to respond to low IQ takes thoo