I’ve been showing you these same reports ever since I joined, today is the first day you bring this up. How come you’ve never shared any reports even after I asked you?
Puntland is surpassing the rest of Somalia.
- Thread starter Farah717
- Start date
Chaseyourdreamzz
VIP
It’s not about the land but the people PL has very productive people go gettersShe pointed out that Puntland has a lower poverty rate than Kenya and Ethiopia despite both countries having bigger GDPs. Quite the astounding feat given Puntland doesn't get any foreign aid and its land is more arid than either countries.
As for GDP per capita, others have pointed out before that Somalia has yet to get a rebase so Puntland's current GDP per capita figure may not be true and is likely much higher. Wouldn't be surprised if it was on par with Ethiopia to be honest.
𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈
VIP
There is a simple explanation, which becomes noticeable when traveling through .So regions and territories. There were two models at the start of reconstruction post nation state collapse:
a) M I Cigaal model, which favoured centralised system where everything ranging from politics to business to development had been concentrated in Hargeysa. This led to once booming cities like Burco and Berbera being almost abandoned, till recently in the case of Berbera. So is evident when traveling from Hargeysa to Caynaba, where there are no sizeable towns, nor rural communities to speak of. Borama is the exception. On the economic front, there are a handful monopolies from goods to fuel to even construction material, which strangles small businesses eliminating competition, thus exuberant prices and cost of living.
b) A Yusuf model, which favoured more decentralised system, dubbed bottom-up state building approach, where power, by design, was to concentrate on the periphery, and away from the centre, particularly in Bosaso and Galkacyo each with influence in politics, business, and development despite Garowe being the seat of state institutions. So is evident in growing cities like Galdogob, Bur Saalax, Burtinle, Qardho, Carmo, Badhan, and recently Garacad have grown considerably, and are centres of rural communities. Same applies to Las Anod and Buhodle, which are now the fastest growing and developing cities in the region. So is also true in cities in S Galbeed inhabited by people of said regions. More the reason the middle class in said regions had grown, and is considerably larger than other regions, hence lower poverty rate. This is not to suggest PL & SSCKH are perfect, for there is room for improvement.
Another factor of consideration is stagnation in SL politics and business where it had reverted backwards in the past 10 years with other regions fastly making discernible progress.
Sadly JL and SW had adopted the heavily centralised model, where light only burns at night in Kismayo and Baydhaba. GM & HS had been dwarfed by Xamar with their respective human capital and influence in politics and business traded in Bakara market at the expense of the people of said FMSs.
Centralisation breaths death into nascent nation state institutions and embryonic economies, particularly for states in recovery from civil wars.
This shall become more evident in years to come.
a) M I Cigaal model, which favoured centralised system where everything ranging from politics to business to development had been concentrated in Hargeysa. This led to once booming cities like Burco and Berbera being almost abandoned, till recently in the case of Berbera. So is evident when traveling from Hargeysa to Caynaba, where there are no sizeable towns, nor rural communities to speak of. Borama is the exception. On the economic front, there are a handful monopolies from goods to fuel to even construction material, which strangles small businesses eliminating competition, thus exuberant prices and cost of living.
b) A Yusuf model, which favoured more decentralised system, dubbed bottom-up state building approach, where power, by design, was to concentrate on the periphery, and away from the centre, particularly in Bosaso and Galkacyo each with influence in politics, business, and development despite Garowe being the seat of state institutions. So is evident in growing cities like Galdogob, Bur Saalax, Burtinle, Qardho, Carmo, Badhan, and recently Garacad have grown considerably, and are centres of rural communities. Same applies to Las Anod and Buhodle, which are now the fastest growing and developing cities in the region. So is also true in cities in S Galbeed inhabited by people of said regions. More the reason the middle class in said regions had grown, and is considerably larger than other regions, hence lower poverty rate. This is not to suggest PL & SSCKH are perfect, for there is room for improvement.
Another factor of consideration is stagnation in SL politics and business where it had reverted backwards in the past 10 years with other regions fastly making discernible progress.
Sadly JL and SW had adopted the heavily centralised model, where light only burns at night in Kismayo and Baydhaba. GM & HS had been dwarfed by Xamar with their respective human capital and influence in politics and business traded in Bakara market at the expense of the people of said FMSs.
Centralisation breaths death into nascent nation state institutions and embryonic economies, particularly for states in recovery from civil wars.
This shall become more evident in years to come.
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All Somalis are productive if the private sector is any indication. Even outside of Somalia, communities in Kenya and Tanzania are doing well.
Idilinaa
VIP
She pointed out that Puntland has a lower poverty rate than Kenya and Ethiopia despite both countries having bigger GDPs. Quite the astounding feat given Puntland doesn't get any foreign aid and its land is more arid than either countries.
As for GDP per capita, others have pointed out before that Somalia has yet to get a rebase so Puntland's current GDP per capita figure may not be true and is likely much higher. Wouldn't be surprised if it was on par with Ethiopia to be honest.
I remember when i shared that 2016/17 report by the world bank/UN . I later realized they measured the poverty rate in terms how many people have access to basic services, like electricity, water, and education.
When you look at it realistically, there's no major wealth gap between Somalia’s regions. Money flows across different areas, and businesses operate trans-regionally in a decentralized, networked manner. There isn’t a single region hoarding wealth at the exclusion of the rest , and you don't see stark imbalances in services either, except in cases where access is disrupted by political conflict or environmental issues.
For example, poverty is heavily concentrated among IDPs (Internally Displaced Persons), not because their regions are inherently poorer, but because displacement strips people of access to resources.
As for Puntland’s budget , it’s a good question. Is it really bigger than all the other federal states combined? It sounds wild, but it’s not impossible when you understand the broader context.
Somalia overall has an extremely low tax-to-GDP ratio, around 1.2% to 2% , and that's likely "overstated" if you factor in how GDP is grossly underestimated. To compare: the U.S. has a 25% tax-to-GDP ratio, and Norway sits around 41%. Even 10% is considered low globally , Somalia is far beneath that.
Now, Puntland probably sits a little higher than the national average because it’s better at mobilizing domestic revenue , but it’s still low compared to other countries. According to a WardheerNews article (linked below ), Puntland's tax revenue is about 3% of its GDP , still way under the 17% average for developing African countries like Kenya and Ethiopia.
Rebuttal- Puntland economy: Key underlying challenges of budget execution and ways forward - WardheerNews
The opinion piece on Puntland Economy published on WardheerNews, August 2, 2021 by a Abdullahi A. Muse (Sanco)’ with ooh and surprise about the author’s misrepresentation of the current financial performance and significant reforms achieved in Puntland under the new leadership and administration
wardheernews.com
For most federal member states (except Banadir Regional Administration, which is recieves more funding through business and income taxes in Mogadishu), their primary revenue sources are customs duties (taxes on goods moving in and out), fees from public services (transportation, healthcare, education, licensing), excise and sales taxes, land sales, and some limited property taxes.
But even then, all of this barely scratches the surface of what could potentially be collected. Somalia’s economy is still largely privatized and informal, meaning a massive amount of wealth circulates outside government oversight or taxation.
That's why I actually respect Puntland’s push to strengthen its financial systems and diversify revenue sources , it shows real initiative to build a sustainable economic future rather than rely on foreign grants.
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Your point about how thr wealth differences not being immense is why I'm skeptical about the puntland budget.I remember when i shared that 2016/17 report by the world bank/UN . I later realized they measured the poverty rate in terms how many people have access to basic services, like electricity, water, and education.
When you look at it realistically, there's no major wealth gap between Somalia’s regions. Money flows across different areas, and businesses operate trans-regionally in a decentralized, networked manner. There isn’t a single region hoarding wealth at the exclusion of the rest , and you don't see stark imbalances in services either, except in cases where access is disrupted by political conflict or environmental issues.
For example, poverty is heavily concentrated among IDPs (Internally Displaced Persons), not because their regions are inherently poorer, but because displacement strips people of access to resources.
As for Puntland’s budget , it’s a good question. Is it really bigger than all the other federal states combined? It sounds wild, but it’s not impossible when you understand the broader context.
Somalia overall has an extremely low tax-to-GDP ratio, around 1.2% to 2% , and that's likely "overstated" if you factor in how GDP is grossly underestimated. To compare: the U.S. has a 25% tax-to-GDP ratio, and Norway sits around 41%. Even 10% is considered low globally , Somalia is far beneath that.
Now, Puntland probably sits a little higher than the national average because it’s better at mobilizing domestic revenue , but it’s still low compared to other countries. According to a WardheerNews article (linked below ), Puntland's tax revenue is about 3% of its GDP , still way under the 17% average for developing African countries like Kenya and Ethiopia.
Rebuttal- Puntland economy: Key underlying challenges of budget execution and ways forward - WardheerNews
The opinion piece on Puntland Economy published on WardheerNews, August 2, 2021 by a Abdullahi A. Muse (Sanco)’ with ooh and surprise about the author’s misrepresentation of the current financial performance and significant reforms achieved in Puntland under the new leadership and administration
For most federal member states (except Banadir Regional Administration, which is recieves more funding through business and income taxes in Mogadishu), their primary revenue sources are customs duties (taxes on goods moving in and out), fees from public services (transportation, healthcare, education, licensing), excise and sales taxes, land sales, and some limited property taxes.
But even then, all of this barely scratches the surface of what could potentially be collected. Somalia’s economy is still largely privatized and informal, meaning a massive amount of wealth circulates outside government oversight or taxation.
That's why I actually respect Puntland’s push to strengthen its financial systems and diversify revenue sources , it shows real initiative to build a sustainable economic future rather than rely on foreign grants.
If puntland's budget was that much higher than all the rest I would expect the infrastructure and other aspects of living standards to be on a fundamentally different level. Especially since puntland is the most sparsely inhabited part of the country.
Idilinaa
VIP
If they manage somehow one day to measure each regions economic activity which includes the informal and fully private sector. North West(Somaliland) and Benadir-Hirshabelle would be wealthier, because they have a larger population and larger cities and towns , Berbera and Mogadishu are busier ports than Bosaso for example as well so higher seaborn trade volume.
The difference is in domestic revenue mobilization not how much wealth each region has, say Puntland has 10 billion circulating in it's economy yearly and the government only managed to capture 300 million through taxation or public , ownership etc. Where as Banadir Regional Admin has 100 billion circulating and they only captured 100 million that's not reflective of the wealth difference between the two. Just as a hypothetical.
Most infrastructure and development is privately funded by property owners, businesses, diaspora and community driven banks.
Unlike other regional states in Somalia where most of the budget goes to pay salaries and has poorer collection of domestic revenue , Puntland government seems to partake in more Public-Private partnerships and partially fund development and services.
This is a report on the first quarter of 2024. Go to page 16 you see a break down 90% of the revenue came from taxation. It shows that Puntland collects the most money, spends the most and has a larger budget surplus.
It also says what i said before, they get most of their revenue from taxing a narrow amount of international trade.
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Check out the 2023 report for yourself the results speak for themselves PL is superior to SL.
You are the one who made the claim, you have to provide the data or withdraw the claim.
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