Rock Art pastoralists in the Horn of Africa

[Grant]

By Peter Gufu Oba

https://tvergasteinjournal.wordpress.com/peter-gufu-oba-rock-art-pastoralists-in-the-horn-of-africa/

'Evidence from rock shelters is available from around 9000 BP when Neolithic pastoralists had expanded “and progressively assimilated more and more of their neighbouring gathering-hunter peoples into their societies”.[42] The Horn of Africa might not be the origin of pastoralism, but the emergence of this lifestyle change in the region is attributable to climate change that forced societies to abandon foraging habits for livestock herding. The Neolithic herders arrived from the Sahara. The period between 5000 BP and 3000 BP represents the mid-Holocene, when aridity induced migrations of prehistoric pastoralists into the Horn of Africa. In the East African highlands pastoralism appeared abruptly around 3000 BP. The appearance of the pastoral population in the highlands might suggest an adaptive response to aridity in the lowlands where resource pressure could have forced some of the less adapted populations to move into wetter ecosystems.[43] During the wetter phase of the climate, pastoral grazing lands expanded, allowing population dispersal, whereas during the dry climate pastoral land use was concentrated around key resources, as depicted in rock art.[44]"

"The various styles of rock art are depictions of human behavior and beliefs. The spread of the animal breed types was from the Horn of Africa to eastern Africa.[71] Following the desiccation of the environment in the Horn between ca. 3000 and 2000 BP, the short horn zebu depicted in the rock art were widely distributed on the western Eritrean plateau and along the coast by the 2nd millennium BP. The type of rock art of this period has the iconographic or style name ‘sorre-Hamakiya.’ Teka[72] reports that the “artistic style of ancient rock art provides the basis for recognizing a particular cultural-historical tradition”. In the common style of rock art referred to as ‘Ethiopian-Arabian’, the main features are “the depiction of humpless bovine in profile with forelimbs and the hind limbs each merged into one thick line”. In rock art caves on the Ethiopia-Sudan border, depictions include rainmaking rituals, showing the complexity of inter-regional relations between different sites as well as expression of shared cultures and differences. [73] Records from eastern Ethiopia and the northern parts of the Horn (the present day Somaliland) show that the rock art depicted domestic species with different art styles. In Somaliland, the rock shelter called Damaline has polychrome paintings depicting sheep, wildlife, snakes, turtles and human figures with arrows. In the rock art in the Gudka Hardhka caves in northern Somaliland, the iconographic representation of a camel confirms the phenomenon of increased aridity.[74] Evidence from archaeological works elsewhere in Eastern Africa shows that the prehistoric pastoral economies had “some resemblance to that of the present inhabitants”.[75] In the eastern Lake Turkana area, depictions in the “middle to the third millennium [BP]” show the presence of both ovicaprids and cattle, but the camel appeared only later. These pastoralists built stone enclosures to protect their livestock in the plains of the Chalbi basin and expanded southwards into the East African Rift valley due to threats by epizootics.[76] Comparisons of the depictions across the region have yielded evidence of inter-regional relationships.[77] The environmental and geographical locations, and therefore spaces, that connected communities, influenced their art, providing evidence of the diffusion of knowledge towards thirst tolerant livestock species.[78]"

 

[Grant]

"During the Neolithic period called Bovidian, the styles of the rock art enable various interpretations based on the depiction of livestock species such as ovids (goats) and capris (sheep) and Bovin (cattle). By about 8000 BP, the depictions in the rock art were mainly of ovicaprids and cattle.[49] The rock artists were predominantly concerned with the sources of their food during each period. Thus, the shift from the Paleolithic phase, which represented the hunter foragers, to Neolithic developments, which represented pastoralists, show shifts in food sources and society responses to climate and environmental changes.[50] The domestication of Bos primigenius (primitive cow) expanded into the Nile valley about 7000 BP;[51] this was the ancestor of the cattle breeds Bos taurus (the humpless long horned) and Bos indicus (the humped short horned zebu). Bos taurus was common during the humid phase of the climate, while Bos indicus became prominent with increased aridity. The depictions show that the rock art serves as a slow cinematic sequence of pastoral evolution to climate change, even when data from a single site is scrutinized. In particular, the gradual disappearance of Bos taurus and the popularity of Bos indicus in rock art sites strongly imply environmental adaptation since Bos indicus had better thirst tolerance than its predecessor. The camel was introduced later than the bovids during periods of increased aridity. [52] From the rock art across the region archaeologists have pieced together the regional migration patterns of the rock art pastoralists.
Regional migrations by the rock art pastoralists

From rock art and other archaeological evidence, we see that pastoralism was introduced into the Atbara valley at the end of 4000 BP. Desiccation and droughts triggered migrations through Nubia (in present day Sudan) into Ethiopia. The introduction of cattle (Bos) into the Ethiopian highlands spread into the lowlands of Afar, down the Red Sea coast.[53] This route represents not only one phase of migration, but a series of migrations reflecting changes in ecology and pastoralists’ adaptations to mobility.[54] Amanuel Beyin and John Shea[55] state:

Beginning around 25000 [BP], pastoralists and agro-pastoralists from the Butan region east of the Nile began to move further east, eventually establishing large villages along the Gasha River…Dependent on cattle, goats, and sheep and perhaps cereals as well as wild game and plant foods, they also migrated into the Red Sea hills…The Gash group…continued their movements to the east, soon occupying the entire Sudan-Eritrean borderland, including Agordat. Farming and herding were the main subsistence activities, except for more environmentally marginal lands…The Agordat communities…could have played a very important role in the region as the social, economic, and political conduits between the polities of Eastern Sudan and the Nile valley, and the increasingly more complex socio-political systems emerging in the Eritrean/Ethiopian highlands such as the ‘pre-Axumites’ and the Ancient Ona."

 

[Menelik III]

Stop with all your false claims. Ethiopia has always been inhabited since creation. There's evidence of agriculture production that dates to 6k bce in the highlands, which is believed to be one of the origins of agriculture in the world. The gash group are highlanders who traded with neighboring people and would acquire their pottery. The c group which is claimed that they share culture with spoke a Berber tongue while gash spoke an Afroasiatic language. These people have no relations to the Nile valley besides trade.

"In Africa, three climatically different regions that are believed to be centres of origin of agriculture have been identified. Agriculture developed in the highlands of Ethiopia approximately 6,000 years ago. Several domesticated species, for example coffee (Coffea arabica; Fig. 2.10), finger millet (Eleusine coracana), and the cereal species teff (Eragrostis tef), originate from this region."

Now please refrain from your delusions of falsehoods.

 

[Grant]

Stop with all your false claims. Ethiopia has always been inhabited since creation. There's evidence of agriculture production that dates to 6k bce in the highlands, which is believed to be one of the origins of agriculture in the world. The gash group are highlanders who traded with neighboring people and would acquire their pottery. The c group which is claimed that they share culture with spoke a Berber tongue while gash spoke an Afroasiatic language. These people have no relations to the Nile valley besides trade.

"In Africa, three climatically different regions that are believed to be centres of origin of agriculture have been identified. Agriculture developed in the highlands of Ethiopia approximately 6,000 years ago. Several domesticated species, for example coffee (Coffea arabica; Fig. 2.10), finger millet (Eleusine coracana), and the cereal species teff (Eragrostis tef), originate from this region."

Now please refrain from your delusions of falsehoods.

Please direct your complaints to:

"] Professor Gufu Oba teaches at the Department of International Environmental and Development Studies (Noragric), Norwegian University of Life Sciences, Ås, E-mail: gufu.oba@umb.no. He is the author of numerous peer reviewed articles on ecology, Environmental history and Pastoralism. His book, “Nomads in the shadows of Empires” (in press with BRILL International) and “Surviving climate and Environmental Change in the Horn of Africa” (forthcoming, Palgrave Macmillan) are contributions to the regional studies."

I follow what he is saying and don't find any obvious problems, but I'm sure he will be interested in any evidence you have that disagrees with it. His e-mail is there and his references are at the bottom of the paper. I would also like to see any links you have as it does follow other evidence and a generally known timeline.

 

[Menelik III]

Thank you for the contact, I'll email him this week.

There was never a migration between Sudan and Ethiopia, which you like to push as truth. This can be backed by historical, archeological, and settlement patterns. Cattle may have arrived from the Fertile Crescent to Ethiopia through Sudan/Egypt, but it was done through trade and not migration. What you're really trying to push is that these people first settled in Ethiopia which is grossly false.

 

[Grant]

Thank you for the contact, I'll email him this week.

There was never a migration between Sudan and Ethiopia, which you like to push as truth. This can be backed by historical, archeological, and settlement patterns. Cattle may have arrived from the Fertile Crescent to Ethiopia through Sudan/Egypt, but it was done through trade and not migration. What you're really trying to push is that these people first settled in Ethiopia which is grossly false.

You have seen my links in the past, and now his. Where are yours?

There may have been up to four separate domestications of cattle. You can see that their presence in Africa is ancient. Here's the most recent work:

https://www.thoughtco.com/history-of-the-domestication-of-cows-170652

"Scholars are divided about the likelihood of a third domestication event having occurred in Africa. The earliest domesticated cattle in Africa have been found at Capeletti, Algeria, about 6500 BP, but Bos remains are found at African sites in what is now Egypt, such as Nabta Playa and Bir Kiseiba, as long ago as 9,000 years, and they may be domesticated. Early cattle remains have also been found at Wadi el-Arab (8500-6000 BC) and El Barga (6000-5500 BC). One significant difference for taurine cattle in Africa is a genetic tolerance to trypanosomosis, the disease spread by the tsetse fly which causes anemia and parasitemia in cattle, but the exact genetic marker for that trait has not been identified to date.

A recent study (Stock and Gifford-Gonzalez 2013) found that although genetic evidence for African domesticated cattle is not as comprehensive or detailed as that for other forms of cattle, what there is available suggests that domestic cattle in Africa are the result of wild aurochs having been introduced into local domestic B. taurus populations. A genomic study published in 2014 (Decker et al.) indicates that while considerable introgression and breeding practices have altered the population structure of modern day cattle, there is still consistent evidence for three major groups of domestic cattle."

If cattle came through trade and not migration, how do you explain this:

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...ania-Prehistoric-African-Population-Structure

"Western-Eurasian-related ancestry is pervasive in eastern Africa today (Pagani et al., 2012, Tishkoff et al., 2009), and the timing of this admixture has been estimated to be ∼3,000 BP on average (Pickrell et al., 2014). We found that the ∼3,100 BP individual (Tanzania_Luxmanda_3100BP), associated with a Savanna Pastoral Neolithic archeological tradition, could be modeled as having 38% ± 1% of her ancestry related to the nearly 10,000-year-old pre-pottery farmers of the Levant (Lazaridis et al., 2016), and we can exclude source populations related to early farmer populations in Iran and Anatolia. These results could be explained by migration into Africa from descendants of pre-pottery Levantine farmers or alternatively by a scenario in which both pre-pottery Levantine farmers and Tanzania_Luxmanda_3100BP descend from a common ancestral population that lived thousands of years earlier in Africa or the Near East. We fit the remaining approximately two-thirds of Tanzania_Luxmanda_3100BP as most closely related to the Ethiopia_4500BP (p = 0.029) or, allowing for three-way mixture, also from a source closely related to the Dinka (p = 0.18; the Levantine-related ancestry in this case was 39% ± 1%) (Table S4)."

Also Somalians are best modeled with Iran Neo ancestry, seems CHG like ancestry didnt just creep into Southern Europe and the Steppes... it eventually made it's way south to Africa as well

"While these findings show that a Levant-Neolithic-related population made a critical contribution to the ancestry of present-day eastern Africans (Lazaridis et al., 2016), present-day Cushitic speakers such as the Somali cannot be fit simply as having Tanzania_Luxmanda_3100BP ancestry. The best fitting model for the Somali includes Tanzania_Luxmanda_3100BP ancestry, Dinka-related ancestry, and 16% ± 3% Iranian-Neolithic-related ancestry (p = 0.015). This suggests that ancestry related to the Iranian Neolithic appeared in eastern Africa after earlier gene flow related to Levant Neolithic populations, a scenario that is made more plausible by the genetic evidence of admixture of Iranian-Neolithic-related ancestry throughout the Levant by the time of the Bronze Age (Lazaridis et al., 2016) and in ancient Egypt by the Iron Age (Schuenemann et al., 2017)."

Also some significant discoveries about the ancient genetic make up of Africa. San related ancestry used to be found in much larger percentages all over prehistoric east africa. A South to North East cline of African ancestry used to exist mirroring the modern day South to North West cline of African Ancestry, but Bantu Migrations seems to have mostly replaced these people.

"We find that ancestry closely related to the ancient southern Africans was present much farther north and east in the past than is apparent today. This ancient southern African ancestry comprises up to 91% of the ancestry of Khoe-San groups today (Table S5), and also 31% ± 3% of the ancestry of Tanzania_Zanzibar_1400BP, 60% ± 6% of the ancestry of Malawi_Fingira_6100BP, and 65% ± 3% of the ancestry of Malawi_Fingira_2500BP (Figure 2A). Notably, the Khoe-San-related ancestry in ancient individuals from Malawi and Tanzania is symmetrically related to the two previously identified lineages present in the San (Z < 2; Figure S2), estimated to have diverged at least 20,000 years ago (Mallick et al., 2016, Pickrell et al., 2012, Schlebusch et al., 2012), implying that this was an ancient divergent branch of this group that lived in eastern Africa at least until 1,400 BP. However, it was not present in all eastern Africans, as we do not detect it in the ∼400-year-old individual from coastal Kenya nor in the present-day Hadza"

 

[ManlikeYJ]

Thank you for the contact, I'll email him this week.

There was never a migration between Sudan and Ethiopia, which you like to push as truth. This can be backed by historical, archeological, and settlement patterns. Cattle may have arrived from the Fertile Crescent to Ethiopia through Sudan/Egypt, but it was done through trade and not migration. What you're really trying to push is that these people first settled in Ethiopia which is grossly false.

Why do u evem care ur not native to the horn. Go back to yemen

 

[Grant]

Why do u evem care ur not native to the horn. Go back to yemen

The oral tradition says Samaales come from Yemen and the Arabian peninsula.

"According to traditions recorded in Shariif 'Aydaruus Shariif 'Ali's Bughyat al-amaal fii taariikh as-Soomaal (1955), the patriarch Samaale arrived in northern Somalia from Yemen during the 9th century and subsequently founded the eponymous Somali ethnic group.[1]

The Darod have separate agnatic (paternal) traditions of descent through Abdirahman bin Isma'il al-Jabarti (Sheikh Darod), who is said to have arrived at a later date from the Arabian peninsula, in the 10th or 11th centuries.[2] Sheikh Darod is, in turn, asserted to have married a woman from the Dir, thus establishing matrilateral ties with the Samaale main stem.[1]

Although often recognized as a sub-clan of the Dir, the Isaaq clan claims paternal descent from one Shaykh Ishaq ibn Ahmad al-Hashimi (Sheikh Isaaq).[3][4]

The Digil and Mirifle (Rahanweyn) clans trace descent from a male ancestor called Sab. Both Samaale and Sab are supposed to have ultimately descended from a common lineage originating in Arabia.[1]"

If you don't find the oral tradition credible, then you are left with the DNA evidence. E1b1b originates in the central Sahara. E-V-32 comes from the area of Kush in the Sudan. T comes from the upper Mediterranean basin to the Zagros mountains of Iran. J is from the Levant. None of them are native to Somalia.

http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1004393

"The non-African ancestry in the HOA, which is primarily attributed to a novel Ethio-Somali inferred ancestry component, is significantly differentiated from all neighboring non-African ancestries in North Africa, the Levant, and Arabia. The Ethio-Somali ancestry is found in all admixed HOA ethnic groups, shows little inter-individual variance within these ethnic groups, is estimated to have diverged from all other non-African ancestries by at least 23 ka, and does not carry the unique Arabian lactase persistence allele that arose about 4 ka. Taking into account published mitochondrial, Y chromosome, paleoclimate, and archaeological data, we find that the time of the Ethio-Somali back-to-Africa migration is most likely pre-agricultural"

The non-African ancestry in both Ethiopians and Somalis is figured at 30-50%, and is of course, not native to either country. Note the late date for the founding of the clans in the oral tradition.

 

[ManlikeYJ]

The oral tradition says Samaales come from Yemen and the Arabian peninsula.

"According to traditions recorded in Shariif 'Aydaruus Shariif 'Ali's Bughyat al-amaal fii taariikh as-Soomaal (1955), the patriarch Samaale arrived in northern Somalia from Yemen during the 9th century and subsequently founded the eponymous Somali ethnic group.[1]

The Darod have separate agnatic (paternal) traditions of descent through Abdirahman bin Isma'il al-Jabarti (Sheikh Darod), who is said to have arrived at a later date from the Arabian peninsula, in the 10th or 11th centuries.[2] Sheikh Darod is, in turn, asserted to have married a woman from the Dir, thus establishing matrilateral ties with the Samaale main stem.[1]

Although often recognized as a sub-clan of the Dir, the Isaaq clan claims paternal descent from one Shaykh Ishaq ibn Ahmad al-Hashimi (Sheikh Isaaq).[3][4]

The Digil and Mirifle (Rahanweyn) clans trace descent from a male ancestor called Sab. Both Samaale and Sab are supposed to have ultimately descended from a common lineage originating in Arabia.[1]"

If you don't find the oral tradition credible, then you are left with the DNA evidence. E1b1b originates in the central Sahara. E-V-32 comes from the area of Kush in the Sudan. T comes from the upper Mediterranean basin to the Zagros mountains of Iran. J is from the Levant. None of them are native to Somalia.

http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1004393

"The non-African ancestry in the HOA, which is primarily attributed to a novel Ethio-Somali inferred ancestry component, is significantly differentiated from all neighboring non-African ancestries in North Africa, the Levant, and Arabia. The Ethio-Somali ancestry is found in all admixed HOA ethnic groups, shows little inter-individual variance within these ethnic groups, is estimated to have diverged from all other non-African ancestries by at least 23 ka, and does not carry the unique Arabian lactase persistence allele that arose about 4 ka. Taking into account published mitochondrial, Y chromosome, paleoclimate, and archaeological data, we find that the time of the Ethio-Somali back-to-Africa migration is most likely pre-agricultural"

The non-African ancestry in both Ethiopians and Somalis is figured at 30-50%, and is of course, not native to either country. Note the late date for the founding of the clans in the oral tradition.

Come on saxib its bs. We both know that. Somalis been around since the start

 

[World]

If you don't find the oral tradition credible, then you are left with the DNA evidence. E1b1b originates in the central Sahara. E-V-32 comes from the area of Kush in the Sudan. T comes from the upper Mediterranean basin to the Zagros mountains of Iran. J is from the Levant. None of them are native to Somalia.

http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1004393

"The non-African ancestry in the HOA, which is primarily attributed to a novel Ethio-Somali inferred ancestry component, is significantly differentiated from all neighboring non-African ancestries in North Africa, the Levant, and Arabia. The Ethio-Somali ancestry is found in all admixed HOA ethnic groups, shows little inter-individual variance within these ethnic groups, is estimated to have diverged from all other non-African ancestries by at least 23 ka, and does not carry the unique Arabian lactase persistence allele that arose about 4 ka. Taking into account published mitochondrial, Y chromosome, paleoclimate, and archaeological data, we find that the time of the Ethio-Somali back-to-Africa migration is most likely pre-agricultural"

The non-African ancestry in both Ethiopians and Somalis is figured at 30-50%, and is of course, not native to either country. Note the late date for the founding of the clans in the oral tradition.

E1b1b and T1a are all prehistoric lineages.

What a stupid argument. You Europeans need to go back to Central Asia and the Middle East if you want to go that far back:

“Haplogroup I (M170), which is now relatively common and widespread within Europe, may represent a Palaeolithic marker – its age has been estimated at ~ 22,000 BP. While it is now concentrated in Europe, it probably arose in a male from the Middle East or Caucasus, or their near descendants, c. 20–25,000 years BP, when it diverged from its immediate ancestor, haplogroup IJ. At about this time, an Upper Palaeolithic culture also appeared, known as the Gravettian.[73]

Earlier research into Y-DNA had instead focused on haplogroup R1 (M173): the most populous lineage among living European males; R1 was also believed to have emerged ~ 40,000 BP in Central Asia.[74][75] However, it is now estimated that R1 emerged substantially more recently: a 2008 study dated the most recent common ancestor of haplogroup IJ to 38,500 and haplogroup R1 to 18,000 BP. This suggested that haplogroup IJ colonists formed the first wave and haplogroup R1 arrived much later.[76]

Thus the genetic data suggests that, at least from the perspective of patrilineal ancestry, separate groups of modern humans took two routes into Europe: from the Middle East via the Balkans and another from Central Asia via the Eurasian Steppe, to the north of the Black Sea.”

Two can play that game you old senile cadaan looser who makes up facts.

 

[World]

Imagine this old senile Cadaan is saying Somalis are not native to Horn of Africa because we have E1b1b Y-DNA when even fucking European people have it showing how far back it is. Oh and I guess all North Africans are not native as well since they peak in it as well. Don’t forget Hitler as well, he was E1b1b.

WTF!

 

[Grant]

E1b1b and T1a are all prehistoric lineages.

What a stupid argument. You Europeans need to go back to Central Asia and the Middle East if you want to go that far back:

“Haplogroup I (M170), which is now relatively common and widespread within Europe, may represent a Palaeolithic marker – its age has been estimated at ~ 22,000 BP. While it is now concentrated in Europe, it probably arose in a male from the Middle East or Caucasus, or their near descendants, c. 20–25,000 years BP, when it diverged from its immediate ancestor, haplogroup IJ. At about this time, an Upper Palaeolithic culture also appeared, known as the Gravettian.[73]

Earlier research into Y-DNA had instead focused on haplogroup R1 (M173): the most populous lineage among living European males; R1 was also believed to have emerged ~ 40,000 BP in Central Asia.[74][75] However, it is now estimated that R1 emerged substantially more recently: a 2008 study dated the most recent common ancestor of haplogroup IJ to 38,500 and haplogroup R1 to 18,000 BP. This suggested that haplogroup IJ colonists formed the first wave and haplogroup R1 arrived much later.[76]

Thus the genetic data suggests that, at least from the perspective of patrilineal ancestry, separate groups of modern humans took two routes into Europe: from the Middle East via the Balkans and another from Central Asia via the Eurasian Steppe, to the north of the Black Sea.”

Two can play that game you old senile cadaan looser who makes up facts.

I suppose ignorance is bliss, troll. What you wrote is offensively presented, but not even linked, and has no relevance at all to the discussion. Either come with evidence and a link or stay out of this thread.

 

[Menelik III]

1. http://www.springer.com/cda/content...759169-c1.pdf?SGWID=0-0-45-1381205-p174720045

Ancient farming in Ethiopia dating to at least 4K bce. (Dispelling your sudan migration mumbo jumbo)

2. "By comparing the LBK genome with DNA from Africans alive today, the scientists calculated that these ancient farmers may have made up 25% or more of the population in the Horn of Africa during the migration years. All of those migrants ultimately pushed farther into Africa than previously thought, they determined." (Last statement proven to be false)

https://www.google.com/amp/www.lati...ethiopian-dna-eurasia-20151008-story,amp.html

Eurasians only made up "25%" of the population, so who were these other people? It also states that eurasians only arrived 3k years ago, but that's around 1k bce lol. There's evidence of Semitic languages being spoke in Ethiopia that dates to at least 2500 bce and even a kingdom at 2k bce. If this is correct then the pre-Afroasiatic would have to date to at least many thousands of years earlier.

 

[Grant]

1. http://www.springer.com/cda/content...759169-c1.pdf?SGWID=0-0-45-1381205-p174720045

Ancient farming in Ethiopia dating to at least 4K bce. (Dispelling your sudan migration mumbo jumbo)

2. "By comparing the LBK genome with DNA from Africans alive today, the scientists calculated that these ancient farmers may have made up 25% or more of the population in the Horn of Africa during the migration years. All of those migrants ultimately pushed farther into Africa than previously thought, they determined." (Last statement proven to be false)

https://www.google.com/amp/www.lati...ethiopian-dna-eurasia-20151008-story,amp.html

Eurasians only made up "25%" of the population, so who were these other people? It also states that eurasians only arrived 3k years ago, but that's around 1k bce lol. There's evidence of Semitic languages being spoke in Ethiopia that dates to at least 2500 bce and even a kingdom at 2k bce. If this is correct then the pre-Afroasiatic would have to date to at least many thousands of years earlier.

What is your problem with migration from the Sahara and Sudan? Are you aware of the drying -up of North Africa? Would a history of the settlement of Ethiopia be helpful?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1376879/pdf/9463310.pdf

"The first known inhabitants of Ethiopia were hunting
peoples whose scattered descendants remained in southern
Ethiopia. As early as the 8th millennium B.C., a Negroid
element appeared, probably only in the southern
part of the country, and mingled with people arriving
later (Encyclopaedia Britannica 1964, vol. 8, p. 782).
By »4,000–5,000 years B.C., Afro-Asiatic peoples
(proto-Cushites, proto–Omotic speakers, and proto-
Semites) were present in Ethiopia (Levine 1974). They
probably derived from the Sahara (Levine 1974) or from
Arabia (Encyclopaedia Britannica 1964, vol. 8, p. 782),
although a local Ethiopian origin of Afro-Asiatic languages
has also been hypothesized (Levine 1974). These
early Ethiopians underwent a strong diversification, and,
by 2,000 B.C., the following different clusters of peoples
(Levine 1974) were present:
1. the Omotic speakers (divided into 50 small societies),
who were agriculturists and who settled in the
southwestern part of the country;
2. the Cushites, who were divided into (a) northern
Cushites (Beja), who were nomadic pastoralists living in
the northern lowlands, (b) the central Cushites (Agaw),
who settled on the northwestern plateau highlands and
who practiced agriculture (cereals); and (c) the eastern
Cushites, who also were agriculturists and who were
differentiated into 120 different groups (including the
Oromo, or Galla) and who settled in the southern part
of the Rift Valley;
3. the Semites, who separated into twomain branches,
one on the northern plateau and one in the central part
of the country, and who gave rise to seven distinct clusters
with various kinds of livelihood.
These groups, the distribution of which has remained
fairly constant ever since, experienced exogenous influences
from Sudanese, Arabian, and Mediterranean peoples.
The first external influence on Ethiopians came
from Sudanese Nilotic speakers, who, in two waves, at
3,000 B.C. and 1,000 B.C., settled in the southwestern
part of the country and partially intermixedwithOmotic
and eastern Cushitic speakers."

 

[Menelik III]

What is your problem with migration from the Sahara and Sudan? Are you aware of the drying -up of North Africa? Would a history of the settlement of Ethiopia be helpful?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1376879/pdf/9463310.pdf

"The first known inhabitants of Ethiopia were hunting
peoples whose scattered descendants remained in southern
Ethiopia. As early as the 8th millennium B.C., a Negroid
element appeared, probably only in the southern
part of the country, and mingled with people arriving
later (Encyclopaedia Britannica 1964, vol. 8, p. 782).
By »4,000–5,000 years B.C., Afro-Asiatic peoples
(proto-Cushites, proto–Omotic speakers, and proto-
Semites) were present in Ethiopia (Levine 1974). They
probably derived from the Sahara (Levine 1974) or from
Arabia (Encyclopaedia Britannica 1964, vol. 8, p. 782),
although a local Ethiopian origin of Afro-Asiatic languages
has also been hypothesized (Levine 1974). These
early Ethiopians underwent a strong diversification, and,
by 2,000 B.C., the following different clusters of peoples
(Levine 1974) were present:
1. the Omotic speakers (divided into 50 small societies),
who were agriculturists and who settled in the
southwestern part of the country;
2. the Cushites, who were divided into (a) northern
Cushites (Beja), who were nomadic pastoralists living in
the northern lowlands, (b) the central Cushites (Agaw),
who settled on the northwestern plateau highlands and
who practiced agriculture (cereals); and (c) the eastern
Cushites, who also were agriculturists and who were
differentiated into 120 different groups (including the
Oromo, or Galla) and who settled in the southern part
of the Rift Valley;
3. the Semites, who separated into twomain branches,
one on the northern plateau and one in the central part
of the country, and who gave rise to seven distinct clusters
with various kinds of livelihood.
These groups, the distribution of which has remained
fairly constant ever since, experienced exogenous influences
from Sudanese, Arabian, and Mediterranean peoples.
The first external influence on Ethiopians came
from Sudanese Nilotic speakers, who, in two waves, at
3,000 B.C. and 1,000 B.C., settled in the southwestern
part of the country and partially intermixedwithOmotic
and eastern Cushitic speakers."

Have You been pushing this narrative for many years or what? I've already debunked your theories. Even your last quote dismembered your entire theory. The Nilotics only live in their region and have not mixed with any other peoples besides some in the omo Valley.

Frankly I've never met a white American Afrocentric, it's a bit hilarious.

 

[Grant]

Have You been pushing this narrative for many years or what? I've already debunked your theories. Even your last quote dismembered your entire theory. The Nilotics only live in their region and have not mixed with any other peoples besides some in the omo Valley.

Frankly I've never met a white American Afrocentric, it's a bit hilarious.

You may have noticed in the history of the settlement of Ethiopia that the author gets past hunter-gatherers and Negroids and suddenly has Afro-Asiatic folks at 4-5 K BC. Just where are you supposing they came from? The author says the choices are Arabia and the Sahara. Given the linguistic and genetic differences, I'd say it's pretty obvious who came from where and generally how they got to Ethiopia.

Have you forgotten already that your argument was that nobody migrated from the Sudan into Ethiopia? What seems clear is that many peoples over long periods of time migrated up the Nile tributaries to their sources at Lake Tana in Ethiopia and Lake Turkana in Kenya. It's just silly, denying it.

 

[Menelik III]

You may have noticed in the history of the settlement of Ethiopia that the author gets past hunter-gatherers and Negroids and suddenly has Afro-Asiatic folks at 4-5 K BC. Just where are you supposing they came from? The author says the choices are Arabia and the Sahara. Given the linguistic and genetic differences, I'd say it's pretty obvious who came from where and generally how they got to Ethiopia.

Have you forgotten already that your argument was that nobody migrated from the Sudan into Ethiopia? What seems clear is that many peoples over long periods of time migrated up the Nile tributaries to their sources at Lake Tana in Ethiopia and Lake Turkana in Kenya. It's just silly, denying it.

Just false propaganda as always. The Nile river never dried up so why would people leave annual floods for unknown land, why are the people of Sudan non cushtic? Why were they described as non cushtic by the kings of Ethiopia and the people of Ethiopia during the 1-3rd century and are still non cushtic? People don't just disappear, those nilo Saharan people have always lived in Sudan, stop trying to rob them of their history.

Why are there cushtic people in south East Africa that predate the bantu migration at over 2k bce? What negroid people lived in Ethiopia? Why did The last part of your comment say that the first external influence come from Nilotics if there was this migration? Why are there settlements in Ethiopia that predate 4K bce?
Why do current Ethiopian people have the same highlander traits as mota man which dates back to the same time period while Sudanese do not? Why are the people of The border still non cushtic? Are they new arrival?

Your entire facade has so many potholes that I can't even take it as a genuine argument.

There's no denying that you are an Afrocentric who wishes nothing else, but to rob us of our history. Everything you see in Ethiopia is thanks to our people and no other people had any help in that, now F. off.

Ps you can't even navigate a boat through the Nile to Ethiopia...

 

[Grant]

Just false propaganda as always. The Nile river never dried up so why would people leave annual floods for unknown land, why are the people of Sudan non cushtic? Why were they described as non cushtic by the kings of Ethiopia and the people of Ethiopia during the 1-3rd century and are still non cushtic? People don't just disappear, those nilo Saharan people have always lived in Sudan, stop trying to rob them of their history.

Why are there cushtic people in south East Africa that predate the bantu migration at over 2k bce? What negroid people lived in Ethiopia? Why did The last part of your comment say that the first external influence come from Nilotics if there was this migration? Why are there settlements in Ethiopia that predate 4K bce?
Why do current Ethiopian people have the same highlander traits as mota man which dates back to the same time period while Sudanese do not? Why are the people of The border still non cushtic? Are they new arrival?

Your entire facade has so many potholes that I can't even take it as a genuine argument.

There's no denying that you are an Afrocentric who wishes nothing else, but to rob us of our history. Everything you see in Ethiopia is thanks to our people and no other people had any help in that, now F. off.

Ps you can't even navigate a boat through the Nile to Ethiopia...

Lord in Heaven! Somebody needs ESL

The Nile didn't dry up, North Africa (the Sahara, which was once a verdant savanna inhabited by cattle-herding people and others) dried up. The people moved to the wetter periphery, coastal areas and especially the Nile valley. Droughts and warfare drove those dependent on grazing around the Nile south and east, UP the river and it's tributaries, but they generally had herds and they didn't travel by boat.

Mota man was E1b1, intermediate between the Khoisan Sandawe and the Negroid Ari. Yes, Negroid Ari. I don't think there is any way to wrap that in either a Cushitic or Semitic flag. Mota man is used as a reference for what Ethiopians were before the Cushitic and Semitic migrations.

Relative to your issues with settlement in the borderlands: The earlier settlers are further up the Nile tributaries, now inside Ethiopia. Look at all the clusters of Afro-Asiatics and the Negroid Ari of the southwest. According to the author of the settlement history, the Negroids were there 10,000 years ago.

Are you not aware of the Southern Cushites? They came up the Nile to Lake Turkana and then went south. Some groups like the Iraqw still exist in Tanzania, but most were absorbed in the Bantu expansion.

I'm not sure I understand this "Afro-centrist" bit. I fully acknowledge the "Ethio-Somali" component in both Ethiopians and Somalis. The figures I see are 30-50% in both. That leaves 50-70% that still needs to be considered. It's not like I'm picking sides in this.

 

[Menelik III]

Lord in Heaven! Somebody needs ESL

The Nile didn't dry up, North Africa (the Sahara, which was once a verdant savanna inhabited by cattle-herding people and others) dried up. The people moved to the wetter periphery, coastal areas and especially the Nile valley. Droughts and warfare drove those dependent on grazing around the Nile south and east, UP the river and it's tributaries, but they generally had herds and they didn't travel by boat.

Mota man was E1b1, intermediate between the Khoisan Sandawe and the Negroid Ari. Yes, Negroid Ari. I don't think there is any way to wrap that in either a Cushitic or Semitic flag. Mota man is used as a reference for what Ethiopians were before the Cushitic and Semitic migrations.

Relative to your issues with settlement in the borderlands: The earlier settlers are further up the Nile tributaries, now inside Ethiopia. Look at all the clusters of Afro-Asiatics and the Negroid Ari of the southwest. According to the author of the settlement history, the Negroids were there 10,000 years ago.

Are you not aware of the Southern Cushites? They came up the Nile to Lake Turkana and then went south. Some groups like the Iraqw still exist in Tanzania, but most were absorbed in the Bantu expansion.

I'm not sure I understand this "Afro-centrist" bit. I fully acknowledge the "Ethio-Somali" component in both Ethiopians and Somalis. The figures I see are 30-50% in both. That leaves 50-70% that still needs to be considered. It's not like I'm picking sides in this.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929712002716

Wrap your head around that old man.
40-50% from Levant through Egypt and along the Red Sea, while the rest is indigenous. There's no mention of Sudan as a source of migration, obviously. Now scram.

 

[Grant]

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929712002716

Wrap your head around that old man.
40-50% from Levant through Egypt and along the Red Sea, while the rest is indigenous. There's no mention of Sudan as a source of migration, obviously. Now scram.

As I said, ESL. Along the Red Sea from Egypt to Ethiopia would be where?

Furthermore, this is only the recent Ethio-Somali component. An earlier back migration at about 23 kya also brought Asiatic genetic material to North Africa, which is carried generally by all E1b1b,. The Semitic and Cushitic peoples are a recent overlay over a putative ancestral Ethiopian population most closely related to the Omotic groups and the Ari Blacksmiths. The Ari go back 10,000 years. The Semites and Cushites only show up at 3 KYA.

Please, actually read your link:

"The Ethiopian populations show high genetic diversity, with stratification matching the linguistic families (Figure 1B), except for the overlap in both PCA and FST analyses of populations belonging to two mutually unintelligible linguistic groups (Semitic and Cushitic). This overlap reflects both the similar amount of non-African genome present in these individuals and the similar African component (Figures 1C and 1E). It may also reflect factors such as the recent expansion of some Cushitic and Semitic groups and landscape such as highland and lowland environments. Of particular interest is the distinctiveness of the Omotic groups, whose position in Figures 1A and S3 is intriguingly compatible with being a putative ancestral Ethiopian population. One insight provided by the ADMIXTURE plot (Figure 1C) concerns the origin of the Ari Blacksmiths. This population is one of the occupational caste-like groups present in many Ethiopian societies that have traditionally been explained as either remnants of hunter-gatherer groups assimilated by the expansion of farmers in the Neolithic period or as groups marginalized in agriculturalist communities due to their craft skills.51 The prevalence of an Ethiopian-specific cluster (yellow in Figure 1C) in the Ari Blacksmith sample could favor the former scenario; the ancestors of this occupational group could have been part of a population that inhabited the area before the spread of agriculturalists."

"ADMIXTURE analyses revealed a major (40%–50%) contribution to the Ethiopian Semitic-Cushitic genomes that is similar to that of non-African populations. Our estimates of genetic similarity between this component and extant non-African populations suggest that the source was more likely the Levant than the Arabian Peninsula. We estimate that this admixture event took place approximately 3 kya."

Sorry. I don't do remedial ESL these days.