Russian Leader Threatens Nuclear War over Ukraine! The west is meeting its match!

[Adagio]

Here is one simple question:

Why is Ukraine considering joining NATO if Russia isn’t an aggressor?

Bonus question:

Why is opinion poll support for Ukraine joining NATO rising year on year?

Put your case on the table.

That’s easy. The opinion poles are rigged as an internal propaganda mechanism to make the people think their neighbours want something they don’t want and have them change their mind to better blend in. Most people aren’t original thinkers, or thinkers of any kind, and simply want to be part of the herd. It’s what happens every day in the US where propaganda is called advertising and marketing and where the people are given their opinions and wants by the media.

The average Ukraine resident is told repeatedly that Russia is the enemy and most believe it over time. Just like the dolts in the US that believe anything that’s repeated often enough to turn pure bullshit into facts.

The political scum wants to join NATO because of the monetary bribes available. Plata o plomo is a Colombian Spanish slang phrase that translates to “silver or lead.” Either take the bribe or get killed.

 

[Periplus]

That’s easy. The opinion poles are rigged as an internal propaganda mechanism to make the people think their neighbours want something they don’t want and have them change their mind to better blend in. Most people aren’t original thinkers, or thinkers of any kind, and simply want to be part of the herd. It’s what happens every day in the US where propaganda is called advertising and marketing and where the people are given their opinions and wants by the media.

The average Ukraine resident is told repeatedly that Russia is the enemy and most believe it over time. Just like the dolts in the US that believe anything that’s repeated often enough to turn pure bullshit into facts.

The political scum wants to join NATO because of the monetary bribes available. Plata o plomo is a Colombian Spanish slang phrase that translates to “silver or lead.” Either take the bribe or get killed.

As soon as Ukraine left the USSR, the former Soviet leaders that took over in Ukraine applied to cooperate with NATO.

They’ve been planning ascension ever since.

This isn’t new in Ukraine, they formally announced their application to NATO in 2002.

 

[Adagio]

As soon as Ukraine left the USSR, the former Soviet leaders that took over in Ukraine applied to cooperate with NATO.

They’ve been planning ascension ever since.

This isn’t new in Ukraine, they formally announced their application to NATO in 2002.

You need to state who exactly applied to get into NATO.

Was it the people of Ukraine or some politician that decided it was a good idea. Just because some politician put in some paperwork does not mean the people of the country were behind that effort. Given your description that the request to join was done immediately after independence suggests the people were never asked.

 

[Periplus]

You need to state who exactly applied to get into NATO.

Was it the people of Ukraine or some politician that decided it was a good idea. Just because some politician put in some paperwork does not mean the people of the country were behind that effort. Given your description that the request to join was done immediately after independence suggests the people were never asked.

A democratically elected president did to the best of my knowledge. President Kuchma announced it in 2002 and President Yuschencko applied in 2008.

But every Ukrainian president has been pro-NATO cooperation.

Immediately after independence was when Ukraine first applied to be a NATO ally not become a member of NATO proper.

Ukraine had democratic elections in 1991, they applied to be a NATO ally in 1992.

 

[Man with a garuun]

 

[Periplus]

That tweet clearly states that Ukraine has been pushing to join NATO for years but has been opposed by its Russian community.

It also proves that the US isn’t trying to get Ukraine to join to piss off Russia.

 

[Man with a garuun]

 

[Man with a garuun]

 

[Man with a garuun]

 

[Adagio]

A democratically elected president did to the best of my knowledge. President Kuchma announced it in 2002 and President Yuschencko applied in 2008.

But every Ukrainian president has been pro-NATO cooperation.

Immediately after independence was when Ukraine first applied to be a NATO ally not become a member of NATO proper.

Ukraine had democratic elections in 1991, they applied to be a NATO ally in 1992.

Thanks for the added detail, but that all doesn’t matter.

Every president, prime minister, etc. is just a political scumbag. Elections are for the terminally stupid to waste their time on since once elected, the people lose all control over their new god.

 

[AMusee]

 

[Periplus]

Thanks for the added detail, but that all doesn’t matter.

Every president, prime minister, etc. is just a political scumbag. Elections are for the terminally stupid to waste their time on since once elected, the people lose all control over their new god.

It does matter tho, the argument that the pro-Russia crowd wants to make is that this is some new development pushed by a puppet government.

The reality is that Ukraine has always wanted cooperation with NATO.

Even before the “overthrow” of the Russia-friendly Ukrainian government, they were still in favour of NATO cooperation.

The simple fact is that the US isn’t goading Russia because it just doesn’t want a war in Ukraine.

 

[Adagio]

whats this about the fed rate? how did it come about and what does it mean for the stock market

Re the stock market, I predict two things. It is going to drop worse than 1929, and Ukraine is going to become a non issue because the budget crisis is going to become a huge issue. Like major austerity is coming, the Federal Government is going to be forced to cut spending to stay solvent.

The national debt is skyrocketing out of control and interest rates are just coming off of all time lows. That won’t last much longer, interest rates are going up like a bat out of hell. Interest rates are going up farther and faster than anyone anticipates. Risk is not priced into bonds, and at no time in the history of the US Republic is risk at the level it is now. The United States has no ability and no intention of paying back its debts.

 

[NordicSomali]

Did you guys know that racist/nationalist Ukrainians are against Russia because it is ''too Asiatic''.
, they see Ukraine as the borderland of the white race and don't want to merge with Russia because otherwise they fear becoming Uralo-Turkic-Siberian mutts.

Ironically, by hoping to the join the EU (many of the anti-Russia nationalists want to) they are more likely to become mixed race in the distant future than from joining Russia.

it’s true many russians look like weird whites, even Putin has a wide face characteristic of asians

 

[Adagio]

It does matter tho, the argument that the pro-Russia crowd wants to make is that this is some new development pushed by a puppet government.

The reality is that Ukraine has always wanted cooperation with NATO.

Even before the “overthrow” of the Russia-friendly Ukrainian government, they were still in favour of NATO cooperation.

The simple fact is that the US isn’t goading Russia because it just doesn’t want a war in Ukraine.

I’ve seen a cartoon showing Russia and the NATO bases in the vicinity. The caption states something to the effect that the Russians have a lot of nerve putting their country next to all those bases.

It should be clear that the US runs NATO. Without the US there is no NATO. The simple test to see if the Russians are just paranoid or not is to imaging Russian missiles, possibly on drone subs, off the US coasts and the reaction to that from the US. I don’t think anyone needs to run that test again. Surfacing a drone sub in the middle of the Potomac might get some attention.

For the Europeans, Putin should station nuclear missile equipped subs around Great Britain, off the coast of Germany, France, etc, and do it flaunting international law if necessary to punctuate he’s not bluffing. Touch the subs and they go off. Then lets see how long the constant provocation that is the purpose of NATO lasts. All the diplomatic bullshit needs to be dispensed with.

I think Putin should announce to the world that Ukraine has 30 days to eliminate any offensive weapons on their territory or Russia will destroy them with stand off weapons, meaning no Russian troops involved. He should clearly indicate that the weapons will be destroyed regardless of who may be standing next to them or how many schools they quickly build around them. He should probably include Poland and any other country that he feels has become a NATO member after the US promised no expansion.

I think the people of Ukraine, Poland and any other nation then in the crosshairs might put some pressure on their “leaders” to back off. NATO becomes an instant liability to any right thinking individual.

BTW – I think NATO won’t survive this fiasco under any circumstances, even if there are no hostilities. I think the US constant bullying is wearing thin and there’s a change coming to lessen US influence in Europe.

 

[Periplus]

I’ve seen a cartoon showing Russia and the NATO bases in the vicinity. The caption states something to the effect that the Russians have a lot of nerve putting their country next to all those bases.

It should be clear that the US runs NATO. Without the US there is no NATO. The simple test to see if the Russians are just paranoid or not is to imaging Russian missiles, possibly on drone subs, off the US coasts and the reaction to that from the US. I don’t think anyone needs to run that test again. Surfacing a drone sub in the middle of the Potomac might get some attention.

For the Europeans, Putin should station nuclear missile equipped subs around Great Britain, off the coast of Germany, France, etc, and do it flaunting international law if necessary to punctuate he’s not bluffing. Touch the subs and they go off. Then lets see how long the constant provocation that is the purpose of NATO lasts. All the diplomatic bullshit needs to be dispensed with.

I think Putin should announce to the world that Ukraine has 30 days to eliminate any offensive weapons on their territory or Russia will destroy them with stand off weapons, meaning no Russian troops involved. He should clearly indicate that the weapons will be destroyed regardless of who may be standing next to them or how many schools they quickly build around them. He should probably include Poland and any other country that he feels has become a NATO member after the US promised no expansion.

I think the people of Ukraine, Poland and any other nation then in the crosshairs might put some pressure on their “leaders” to back off. NATO becomes an instant liability to any right thinking individual.

BTW – I think NATO won’t survive this fiasco under any circumstances, even if there are no hostilities. I think the US constant bullying is wearing thin and there’s a change coming to lessen US influence in Europe.

I agree that NATO is fragile and there is an appetite to get rid of the US that started since the Iraq war but has exacerbated under Trump.

I also agree that the US is provocative in where it places it military bases esp around nations like Iran.

However, when it comes to Eastern Europe, these nations are lining up for NATO cooperation. The US isn’t forcing them to join but these nations want to.

The answer simply is that many of these nations were effectively colonised by Russia for decades and now they’re independent but Russia has nukes and they don’t.

I analyse policy for a living walaal, it’s not as difficult or in depth as it seems sometimes. Sometimes it’s just clear cut.

 

[Periplus]

To be honest @Adagio

Russia lost its right to flaunt international laws like the US and China when the USSR collapsed.

Despite his manufactured bravado, Putin is well aware that he does not have the ability to be as bold as Khrushchev and other Soviet leaders. He can’t put missiles on Cuba or stare down the West in their backyard.

Had the USSR not collapsed, Russia would have bases in Germany let alone Ukraine. However, what killed them was their fixation on trying to beat the US while their people starved.

 

[Molotoff]

Lol this whole situation makes me think of this seinfeld episode where they mention "the ukraine as weak":

 

[Adagio]

I agree that NATO is fragile and there is an appetite to get rid of the US that started since the Iraq war but has exacerbated under Trump.

I also agree that the US is provocative in where it places it military bases esp around nations like Iran.

However, when it comes to Eastern Europe, these nations are lining up for NATO cooperation. The US isn’t forcing them to join but these nations want to.

The answer simply is that many of these nations were effectively colonised by Russia for decades and now they’re independent but Russia has nukes and they don’t.

I analyse policy for a living walaal, it’s not as difficult or in depth as it seems sometimes. Sometimes it’s just clear cut.

That the nations want to join, meaning the politicians that get paid off, is corruption and greed at work if no one asked the population. How often was the US population consulted on their endless wars? The peoples of the world are an afterthought once the politician is elected.

The way to avoid a military conflict is to not piss off your neighbour. When some dimwit politician thinks he has NATO backing him up he is apt to be more reckless in dealings with his neighbours and that puts the citizenry at greater risk than not being part of NATO.

Austria, Switzerland, etc are all small countries that have figured out how to be neutral. Neutral countries get UN backing.

When the feared adversary is Russia, does anyone really think that NATO, meaning the US, will come to their military rescue? If Russia decides to invade Ukraine, it would all be over before the phone in the Pentagon starts ringing.