Well the one who can't tell apart is you since you aren't educated in the different creeds in Islam that you reply in the stupid term that you think it's insult Wahhabi.
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Somalis are muslims following Ahlu Sunnah Wa Al jam'aa and if I ask simple question about the the deen they will answer how the Salaf(aka the Sahaba and their followers and the followers after them) have answered and explained not the way Asha'ira answer or explain and that applies to every layman Muslim on this earth.Exactly, this is a very weird take, if Asharis aren’t Sunni Muslims then what does that make Somalis
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Ignore him sxb, he is well known Quranist
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Somalis in the past used to say when making dua "Dhulkaan ka ducaynaye Samada alle haka aqbalo" Trans.. "we have made Dua on earth may Allah accept it in the heavens".
This proves that Somali layman had absolutely nothing to do with Ashari Jahmis. They were Salafis who believed Allah is above his creation.
You’re reaching very much here. You are also leading with salafi meaning those of the salaf/ early genirations of Islam vs what the user was getting at which is the modern salafi movement, that seems a bit disingenuous of you. I’m also speaking specifically on attributes of Allah specifically majority of Somalis even those that claim to be salafi do not adhere to that type of thought. This also applies to most Muslims & also the concept of where is Allah, Somalis have never been literalists & there is a long history of ashari shafiici theology in Somalia. Your original comment came off as you attributing ashari to non Sunnis but thank you for clarifying
We also believed that Allah was above the heavens & the earth above the throne/on & everywhere at the same time meaning Allah is not confined to a specific time nor space
You are the one who's reaching here, the attributes of Allah is what Allah has proved of himself in the Quran that the Sahaba their followers and the followers after them have affirmed and that's the aqeeda of the Sunna or as everyone knows Salafayiya. Is true Asha'aira and maturidia are not following the Salaf instead they go against what they said and their views are closer to Jahmia and Mu'tazila as they like to use reason and Ta'wil to interpret the Quran which the Salaf never used.
الإمام أبو عبد الله محمد بن إدريس الشافعي رضي الله عنه: آمنت بالله وبما جاء عن الله، على مراد الله، وآمنت
قال الإمام أبو حنيفة: وله يد ووجه ونفس كما ذكره الله تعالى في القرآن، فما ذكره الله تعالى في القرآن، من ذكر الوجه واليد والنفس فهو له صفات بلا كيف، ولا يقال: إن يده قدرته أو نعمته؛ لأن فيه إبطالَ الصفة، وهو قول أهل القدر والاعتزال… [الفقه الأكبر ص٣٠٢]
سئل الإمام أبو حنيفة عن النزول الإلهي، فقال: ينزل بلا كيف. [عقيدة السلف أصحاب الحديث ص٤٢، الأسماء والصفات للبيهقي ص٤٥٦، وسكت عليه الكوثري، شرح الطحاوية ص٢٤٥، شرح الفقه الأكبر للقاري ص٦٠]
" كنّا عند مالك بن أنس، فجاءه رجل فقال: يا أبا عبد الله، {الرَّحْمَنُ عَلَى العَرْشِ اسْتَوَى}، كيف استوى ؟ فما وجد مالك من شيء ما وجد من مسألته، فنظر إلى الأرض وجعل ينكت بعود في يده، ثمّ رفع رأسه، ورمى بالعود، وقال:
" الكيف منه غير معقول، والاستواء منه غير مجهول، والإيمان به واجب، والسؤال عنه بدعة، وأظنّك صاحبَ بدعة "
عن وليد بن مسلم قال: سألت مالكاً، والثوري، والأوزاعي، والليث بن سعد عن الأخبار في الصفات؛ فقالوا أمِرّوها كما جاءت.
عن الشافعي أنه قال: القول في السنة التي أنا عليها، ورأيت أصحابنا عليها، أهل الحديث الذين رأيتهم، وأخذت عنهم مثل سفيان، ومالك، وغيرهما: الإقرار بشهادة أن لا إله إلا الله، وأن محمداً رسول الله، وأن اللهَ تعالى على عرشه في سمائه يقرب من خلقه كيف شاء، وأن الله تعالى ينزل إلى سماء الدنيا كيف شاء.
قال الشافعي في كتابه الرسالة: والحمد لله... الذي هو كما وصف به نفسه، وفوق ما يصفه به خلقه [الرسالة ص٧، ٨]
عن الشافعي إنه قال: نثبت هذه الصفات التي جاء بها القرآن، ووردت بها السنة، وننفي التشبيه عنه، كما نفى عن نفسه، فقال: { لَيْسَ كَمِثْلِهِ شَيْءٌ}
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I said you’re reaching bc you insinuated Somalis we’re literalists which they never were and even today do not believe in interpreting ilahays attributes as literal meanings the way salafis do. That is a fact, Irrigardless of their self identification, if you’ve spent a day in any Somali province you could see that.
Astgafurallah if you ask a random Muslim Somali or not and ask them where's Allah? they will answer up in the heaven and point out the evidence in the Quranic verses like:
They fear their Lord above them, and they do whatever they are commanded.
يَخَافُونَ رَبَّهُمْ مِنْ فَوْقِهِمْ وَيَفْعَلُونَ مَا يُؤْمَرُونَ
Surah an-Nahl 50
أَأَمِنْتُمْ مَنْ فِي السَّمَاءِ أَنْ يَخْسِفَ بِكُمُ الْأَرْضَ فَإِذَا هِيَ تَمُورُ
Do you feel secure that He Who is in heaven will not cause the earth to collapse beneath you while it spins?
Surah al-Mulk 16
I have provided the saying of our main salaf scholars the 3 imam on this issue and they didn't believe what you believe and here's hadith about our prophet صلاة الله عليه وسلم
أن رسول الله قال للجارية : أين الله ؟ قالت : في السماء . قال :"اعتقها فإنها مؤمنة"
Hadeeth (report) concerning the young slave girl, to whom the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: "Where is Allah?" She said: "In heaven." He asked, "Who am I?" She said, "The Messenger of Allah." So he said to her master: "Set her free, for she is a believer."
You tried to say Somalis were literalist when they are not. I specified exactly what I was referring to as in where is Allah & allahs attributes. You are confusing yourself & conflating 2 different things. Now you’re saying Allah is in the heavens, salafis do not believe that. So which one is it? What is ur argument here? Read Surah taha and brush up on your ibn tammiyyah bc you seem to not know the stance of where is Allah when it comes to your own scholars.
Do you feel secure that He, Who is over the heaven (Allâh), will not cause the earth to sink with you, and then it should quake? Or do you feel secure that He, Who is over the heaven (Allâh), will not send against you a violent whirlwind? Then you shall know how (terrible) has been My Warning>> (Surah Al-Mulk 67:16-17)
The Most Gracious (Allâh) rose over (Istawâ) the (Mighty) Throne (in a manner that suits His Majesty) (Surah Taha 25:10)
I’m reference to ur quote about the Slavs girl. “Sheikh-ul-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah said that this does not mean in any way that Allah is in the midst of, or surrounded by the heavens, as none of the Salaf (righteous predecessors) of this Ummah or its Imams ever stated that; rather they agreed that allah is established on His Throne above the heavens and is distinguished from His creation with no similarity whatsoever between Him and His creation in terms of His Attributes, Names, or Power”.
Then he quoted the saying of Al-Imam Malik that Allah is above the heavens and His knowledge encompasses everywhere and every thing, until he (Malik) said whoever believes that Allah is in the mist of, or surrounded by the heavens and that He needs His Throne or any of His creation, or that His rising above the Throne is similar to that of any of His servants sitting on a chair, then he is astray, Mubtadi` (one who introduces innovations in religion) and Islamically ignorant.
^ this is what Somalis in Somalia are taught that is the similarity with salafis (Although some salafis will argue that Allah is on a throne & is not everywhere) however allahs attributes of having limbs is not something majority of the Muslim world nor Somalis co-sign and that is a fact it has nothing to do with me as an individual. Somalis historically being salafis is also comedic considering the percentage of zaar rituals that take place there but I digress
You haven't come up with an evidence that the ordinary Muslim has the same views as the Asha'ira other than of what Ahlu Sunnah Wa al Jam'aa hold on when it comes to Allah swt divine attributes.
What you have come up with is unnecessary stuff trying to accuse me that when Allah is in heaven that I what mean is heaven contains him or surrounds Allah swt astgafuruallah that not what I hold instead I belief what the salaf belief which is what Allah swt has called himself in his holy book.
Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) said:
When the early generations (salaf), the leading scholars (imams) and all the Sunni scholars say that Allah is “above the Throne” or that He is “in heaven [fi’s-samaa’], above all things”, they are not saying that there is something that encompasses Him or contains Him, or that there is some place where He is, , glorified and exalted be He far above that. Rather He is above all things, and He has no need of all things; rather all things are in need of Him. He is far above all things, and He is the One Who is holding the Throne and the bearers of the Throne, by His might and power. Every created being is in need of Him, and He has no need of the Throne or of any created being.
Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) said:
"With regard to what we see in the Qur’an and Sunnah of the words “Do you feel secure that He who [is] in the heaven would not …”[ al-Mulk 67:16], and the like, some may understand from it that the word samaa’ (heaven) refers to the lofty created things, the Throne and everything beneath it, so they say that the phrase “in heaven (fi’s-samaa’)” means “above the heaven (‘ala’as-samaa’)”, similar to the verse (interpretation of the meaning), “Say, Travel in (fi) the land” [al-An‘aam 6:11] meaning travel on the land.
There is no need for all this discussion; rather the word samaa’ refers to anything that is high or lofty, and it does not refer to any specific physical entity. The phrase fi’s-samaa’ [translated as “in heaven”] refers to being up or above, as opposed to being down or beneath.
So Allah is the Exalted, the Most High, and His is all highness and exaltedness; He is above the Throne, and there is none but Him, the Exalted, the Most High, glorified and exalted be He."
That's the position of the Salaf and the whole Sunnah community but the folks of Asha'ria and similar kalam sects like to dwell on what Allah SWT attributes he affirmed on himself in the Quran adding unnecessary meaning to it when he saying of our Salaf are there.
all Somalis are athari you braindead dumbass, even the sufis.
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that isn’t true, whilst saudi sponsored salafism has infiltrated our community after state collapse, a significant amount of somalis are still ashari and shafi’i. before 1990 it was more like 99 %. i am athari myself but that’s the truth.
why are you associating atharis with “salafism” (a nonsense islamophobic bugword, all Muslims are salafis) or saudis?
Somalis have been athari before the first saudi fried a lizard for breakfast. Go to any sufi in Somalia and ask him where allah is, or of his attributes. Learn more about your country and religion before you engage in arguments.
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I am not associating athari with salafism, i’m just informing you that before 1990, there was not no Saudi sponsored Sheikhs running around Somalia and that our indigenous Somali scholars followed Ashari creed and Shafi’i madhab for centuries. Salafism refers to the ideology of muhammad ibn abdulwahabb and those that wrongly interpret ibn taymiyyah, not the salaf. As for the laymen in somalia, who is teaching them Athari creed if all the scholars before 1990 are Ashari? Did they receive divine revelation?
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Imam Shafi'i was Athri as was the rst of the imams and ther students.
The man you claim to e following Abu Hassan al Asha'ari repented from the sect he founded and returned to the ways of Salaf Ahlu Sunnah wa al Jama'a accepting the aqeedha of Imam ibn Hanbal and recognizing Allah's divine attributes in his last book where he refuted the mu'tazila and the jahamis views in his last published book Al Ibanah an Usul Al Diyana
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Many Somalis have huge lips and Madow hair, it's time to claim the black label with pride.
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