Secularism Must Win In Somalia

[DR OSMAN]

Secularism is the only way. You wouldn't believe the number of atheist and Christian Somalis I've seen . Somalia should be a home for them too.

I love Secularism becuz even your own 'tribe' will turn on u over it meaning this is the sort of politics u want where people start to think individually, now this will ensure individualism and no more clan ties so it could even cure 'qabilism'. It will mean one somali will die to protect another somali freedom irrespective of belief, sexual orientation, idealogy, gender, clan, or all the other identity politics which eventually collapse because with identity politics it allows other identities to form like clans, factions of religion, etc and it turns into a war zone eventually. But the idea a Somali dies to preserve the freedoms of it's citizens even where he disagrees but respects their free will is the closest system to 'cadaalad' for all.


We should form a Somali wide secular club, mass campaign the shit on the media teaching the society what this idea means and how it's the closest thing to allow for co-existence of people, it means our society starts to protect the govt because the govt is protecting all their rights, u won't have people who start fighting claiming their lacking rights like u will with identity or religious politics. I also never understood how can a religion be a state, it means that the state is god and interfering in people personal lives, this means their religion is man made niyahow, they don't understand the fundamental flaw of playing god thru state functions means you will find people uprising like european christian era who were fed up with religion and lead to a mass exodus in the end, their kind of shooting themselves in the foot markay arimaha stateka soo dhex galan wallahi.

 

[DR OSMAN]

@Somali Hannibal if the state won't protect my freedom to say what I want without fear of death, if it won't allow me to preach my ideas like happened in the christian era of europe, their will another war sooner or later because people haday ka maqan tahay xoriyada, it's the first thing battles start over because it's well known god gave people freedom and hence if another man takes it, he will pick up his gun and their will be battle, u will continously be in cycle of vicious wars in instability, all the while u just needed to accept u have to co-exist with differences in your society and respect the freedoms god gave everyone to lead their life and make their own decisions as they please hence that is why it's a test. Is that hard to accept? why do muslims want to control the state, are they scared other ideas are superior to islam? their showing many weaknesses that made me suspicion bahashu waa iska 'sheeko' aan 'saldhig lahayn', kinda like the church control on people bay raban but god made it explictly clear do not interfere in people freedoms, because god gave them the choices to begin with, u shud never transgress and start taking it away and saying u have to do this and that.

 

[Sheikh Kulkuli]

From the birth of Somalia narion it was always secularist till the time MSB was kicked out of Somalia.

There has never been an Islamic state Somalia post colonialism.

The decadence of Somalia has been brought by secularism.

Secularism means negating of Allah and choosing what you believe as a law to govern.
Not all Secularist countries share same laws China and USA for example.Secularism is relative.

Western civilisation was not propelled by Secularism but conquests and exploitation of those they colonised.

The west only recycled old dogmas belonging to the Greeks.

The irony is even though the west especially USA is secularist but majority of the laws are derived from the Bible.

 

[Removed]

Do you accept Islam as the absolute truth with no flaws? Do you view it as the objective authority on what is morally right and wrong in all times and places?

These are questions @DR OSMAN and all those who liked and agreed to his statement should ask themselves and answer.

 

[Karim]

@DR OSMAN are you Muslim?!

 

[DR OSMAN]

From the birth of Somalia narion it was always secularist till the time MSB was kicked out of Somalia.

There has never been an Islamic state Somalia post colonialism.

The decadence of Somalia has been brought by secularism.

Secularism means negating of Allah and choosing what you believe as a law to govern.
Not all Secularist countries share same laws China and USA for example.Secularism is relative.

Western civilisation was not propelled by Secularism but conquests and exploitation of those they colonised.

The west only recycled old dogmas belonging to the Greeks.

The irony is even though the west especially USA is secularist but majority of the laws are derived from the Bible.

America does in-coporate 'carefully' elements of the bible in it's laws but not where it 'infringes' on freedoms of speech, ideas, protest, religion, and civil choices, that's where the buck stops. They know their people are united on that principle that they co-exist in their differences and no-one can infringe on another nor can the state ever be nothing but neutral about it's citizen. This allows them to unite quickly as each citizen backs another citizens no matter if they are of the same race, class, wealth, religion, sexual orientation, it actually 'supercedes' identity politics and brings their people together 'bahashu' waa dan iyaga oo dan ugu jiro which is very great idea where all citizens know it's in the benefit of all, not just a few.

 

[Sheikh Kulkuli]

@DR OSMAN are you Muslim?!

He is a murtad staunch atheist.

 

[DR OSMAN]

Do you accept Islam as the absolute truth with no flaws? Do you view it as the objective authority on what is morally right and wrong in all times and places?

These are questions @DR OSMAN and all those who liked and agreed to his statement should ask themselves and answer.

Maybe u shud start a thread and tell us what this great islamic state model is, I did it for my political views and then we can carry out a vote on somalispot and we can see where people support. I am not going to describe the islamic state for u, u should be able to, since u believe in it, hence u need to tell us how this will benefit society and how it will ensure people freedoms are protected and not infringed on and their citizens are equal before the state.

I know what an islamic state is but u will say I don't understand it and misinterpret it, it's basically a religious govt meaning 1. it's an idea. 2. it's a religion. 3. It's based on identity not fundamental human rights. It regulates people like their god judging us on personal matters that is between a man and god and takes away their ability to choose as they make this the 'law' hence a clear trangression from free will of it's followers.

 

[Sheikh Kulkuli]

America does in-coporate 'carefully' elements of the bible in it's laws but not where it 'infringes' on freedoms of speech, ideas, protest, religion, and civil choices, that's where the buck stops. They know their people are united on that principle that they co-exist in their differences and no-one can infringe on another nor can the state ever be nothing but neutral about it's citizen. This allows them to unite quickly as each citizen backs another citizens no matter if they are of the same race, class, wealth, religion, sexual orientation, it actually 'supercedes' identity politics and brings their people together 'bahashu' waa dan iyaga oo dan ugu jiro which is very great idea where all citizens know it's in the benefit of all, not just a few.

The laws like the father is responsible for his children is from Abrahimic laws.

The law regarding family marriage and life was always from Abrahamic laws.

So is the Commercial.laws and many more.

There is evolution of the jurisprudence from the root but most of it can be traced to the bible.

 

[DR OSMAN]

The laws like the father is responsible for his children is from Abrahimic laws.

The law regarding family marriage and life was always from Abrahamic laws.

So is the Commercial.laws and many more.

There is evolution of the jurisprudence from the root but most of it can be traced to the bible.

Why wud I, a non religious person pay taxes to a govt that then uses those taxes to enforce a religion on me that I choose not to follow? u see the problem, the govt is representing identity not human rights. Why would I support a country that doesn't allow me equal rights as believers when we are both taxpayers? Believers are the intolerant ones not disbelievers, i've never seen a disbeliever going around telling believers we will enforce this and that on you and take away their freedom and then still tax them for it lol.

If u want reality check, identity politics doesn't work, it leads to clashes and eventual state collapse, where-as uniting on protecting each somali freedom is something a reasonable person can see is logical, it doesn't mean they agree they will obviously contest for power and in a free society they won't have fear the state is going to persecute them. Hence the leader of the free world is america and it's supporters western world/japan/south korea. I hope Somalia also joins the free world and present to the world how our citizens cooperate and defend each other irrespective of their beliefs, clans, political views, religion because they know how important it is to protect each person freedom.

The west will be 'by golly' they finally actually understood our values isn't about spreading anti god message but it's a message that all can exist in peace, freedom, equality without being harmed for it or having a state tell u it's against the law, some basic human rights niyahow is what secularism is about, it's not about who is right or wrong but ensuring both those u agree with and those u disagree with are equal in society with no special preferences for one over the other.

 

[DR OSMAN]

@Django there is basically 4 modes of state

1. Monarchy or Sultanates
2. Secularism which can be communist or democracy
3. Military rule
4. Theocracy like Iran where religion is the state and citizens are governed by it, freedoms are non-existant

Somalis have had 1 and 3 before. Option 2 is what I back from those choices. Stop criticizing secularism when there is nothing else that comes close to it, i hate ppl who criticize something but can't show what can beat it. It's like those criticize federalism in Somalia but never show what is better, their usually dismissed right? well u r doing the same thing against secularism u r totally not for it but u won't show what system is better and how it can work in somalia

 

[Sheikh Kulkuli]

@DR OSMAN The non believers actually paid less tax than the common believer in an ideal Islamic state.
While they collected Zakah from the muslims which is tax on wealth.The non believers( dhimis) paid an agreed tribute which was much less than Zakah and they also were expemted from military duty.
While for example in Australia you pay different kind of taxes like Council Tax, Income tax, Capital gains tax, inheritance tax, National insurance tax,VAT and alot of other hidden taxes.Which if you add will be collasal to a commoner( working class) who would have paid Zakah.

Western society the rich are the ruling class and the laws are designed to safeguard their interest while Working class who make majority of the population are exploited.
So people only way to become rich is to buy lottery or X factor or become musician or athlete or even worse a drug dealer so that they escape the vicious cycle of poverty amongst working class.

 

[DR OSMAN]

@DR OSMAN The non believers actually paid less tax than the common believer in an ideal Islamic state.
While they collected Zakah from the muslims which is tax on wealth.The non believers( dhimis) paid an agreed tribute which was much less than Zakah and they also were expemted from military duty.
While for example in Australia you pay different kind of taxes like Council Tax, Income tax, Capital gains tax, inheritance tax, National insurance tax,VAT and alot of other hidden taxes.Which if you add will be collasal to a commoner( working class) who would have paid Zakah.

Western society the rich are the ruling class and the laws are designed to safeguard their interest while Working class who make majority of the population are exploited.
So people only way to become rich is to buy lottery or X factor or become musician or athlete or even worse a drug dealer so that they escape the vicious cycle of poverty amongst working class.

I didn't ask you about economic policies, niyahow I can't even live in peace and freedom without persecution from the state and society in Somalia just because I refuse to believe in religion. When someone is missing the right of freedom, I think economics is secondary don't u think? When Islam ruled, it was far better then the existing systems of the world, I don't doubt that. But show me how it is better then secularism, this is where u will see secularism is far superior as it guarantees the equal rights of all it's citizens and equalizes them before the govt irrespective if they say the shahada or what religious community they come from(dhimmis).

 

[DR OSMAN]

@Django dhimmis were not allowed free speech, free assembly or protest, free thought, ideas, and many other fundamental human rights, it was great advancement for islam at the time compared to what existed but since secularism was born, islam now looks backward as there is a better system that answers all the needs of people not only answers the needs of 'believers'. Come on surrender to secularism, wallahi u wud get slaughtered if u tried to argue a religion based govt is superior to secular govt, waxaa kugu dhici laha dharbaaxo dhinacyo badan to show u fundamental flaws in religious based states and how they trample on freedoms of people and how they regulate god law and take on the role of god.

 

[Sheikh Kulkuli]

@Django there is basically 4 modes of state

1. Monarchy or Sultanates
2. Secularism which can be communist or democracy
3. Military rule
4. Theocracy like Iran where religion is the state and citizens are governed by it, freedoms are non-existant

Somalis have had 1 and 3 before. Option 2 is what I back from those choices. Stop criticizing secularism when there is nothing else that comes close to it, i hate ppl who criticize something but can't show what can beat it. It's like those criticize federalism in Somalia but never show what is better, their usually dismissed right? well u r doing the same thing against secularism u r totally not for it but u won't show what system is better and how it can work in somalia

Abdirashid Ali Sharmake and Aden Cade were they Monarch?

The military rule is just an extension of secularism they derive laws from what they see suitable.

The reality in the west is everything is a facade the entire system is controlled by a minority of elites and they decide who will become president and they use media to propagate their desired candidate while vilify the undesirable.

The main source of wealth from the West was exploitation of other indigenous people dont be fooled by the concept that economy was brought about due to industrialisation and Scientific progression.
Without India and Asia or Americas and Africa the industrial revolution would not have happened.Thus have you asked yourself the impact of those people that were exploited by the west to make them rich?
The genocide of India(bengals), Africa,Austrailian Aborigines,US native red indians.


If Secularism is ideal how come there is social inequalities in regards to ethnicities especially in USA where racism and institutionalised racism.

Let's visit and see how Australian whites wiped out Aborigines and even used segregation to separate Aboriginal children from their parents and turning them into drunkards and Social rejects.

Do you want us to do what Australian whites did in Australia so that we can become enlightened.

Under Secularism everyone is equal and others are more equal than others.

 

[Sheikh Kulkuli]

@Django dhimmis were not allowed free speech, free assembly or protest, free thought, ideas, and many other fundamental human rights, it was great advancement for islam at the time compared to what existed but since secularism was born, islam now looks backward as there is a better system that answers all the needs of people not only answers the needs of 'believers'. Come on surrender to secularism, wallahi u wud get slaughtered if u tried to argue a religion based govt is superior to secular govt, waxaa kugu dhici laha dharbaaxo dhinacyo badan to show u fundamental flaws in religious based states and how they trample on freedoms of people and how they regulate god law and take on the role of god.

Are Australian Aborigines allowed any rights in Australia?
Dhimis had rights you couldnt steal their property or kill them for fan or abuse them if they were under state protection.

The Jewish golden era was achieved during the Muslim rule, Jews prospered under Muslim Spain and the Ottomans.
Whether you embrace Secularism or not the Aryan White culture will always see you as inferior negro.

 

[DR OSMAN]

Abdirashid Ali Sharmake and Aden Cade were they Monarch?

The military rule is just an extension of secularism they derive laws from what they see suitable.

The reality in the west is everything is a facade the entire system is controlled by a minority of elites and they decide who will become president and they use media to propagate their desired candidate while vilify the undesirable.

The main source of wealth from the West was exploitation of other indigenous people dont be fooled by the concept that economy was brought about due to industrialisation and Scientific progression.
Without India and Asia or Americas and Africa the industrial revolution would not have happened.Thus have you asked yourself the impact of those people that were exploited by the west to make them rich?
The genocide of India(bengals), Africa,Austrailian Aborigines,US native red indians.


If Secularism is ideal how come there is social inequalities in regards to ethnicities especially in USA where racism and institutionalised racism.

Let's visit and see how Australian whites wiped out Aborigines and even used segregation to separate Aboriginal children from their parents and turning them into drunkards and Social rejects.

Do you want us to do what Australian whites did in Australia so that we can become enlightened.

Under Secularism everyone is equal and others are more equal than others.

I am talking about the ability to be free, u go into a rant about wealth and discrimination which are illegal by the way but that is besides the point as discrimination exists within Somalia based on clans such as Madow vs jileec, jileec vs jileec, midg2n castes.

War niyahow I can't even live in Somalia because I choose out of my free will not to practise Islam, I am not free in Somalia and many other groups of people are persecuted like gays for making personal choices that effect no-one in society but will be killed. Where-as in the west I have this fundamental right of freedom religion and freedom of sexual orientation. I also have the fundamental right to speak and exchange ideas without some cop coming to my door and arresting me for it. You can't even drink alcohol or go to nightclubs in Somalia which is again personal choices being infringed on don't go on a rant how it's bad, it's not about what is bad or good but allowing ppl to choose is what is the issue because even god said u have the right to choose why are u saying a state must say otherwise, your taking away things people can choose who are not forcing others to do it but are doing it because they choose to

 

[Sheikh Kulkuli]

I am talking about the ability to be free, u go into a rant about wealth and discrimination which are illegal by the way but that is besides the point as discrimination exists within Somalia based on clans such as madow vs jileec, jileec vs jileec, midg2n castes.

War niyahow I can't even live in Somalia because I choose out of my free will not to practise Islam, I am not free in Somalia and many other groups of people are persecuted like gays for making personal choices that effect no-one in society but will be killed. Where-as in the west I have this fundamental right of freedom religion and freedom of sexual orientation. I also have the fundamental right to speak and exchange ideas without some cop coming to my door and arresting me for it. You can't even drink alcohol or go to nightclubs in Somalia which is again personal choices being infringed on don't go on a rant how it's bad, it's not about what is bad or good but allowing ppl to choose is what is the issue because even god said u have the right to choose why are u saying a state must say otherwise, your taking away things people can choose who are not forcing others to do it but are doing it because they choose to

As long as you dont propagate gaalnimo you can live in Somalia.Dont being social ills to Somalia which is already suffering from the exposure of Western colonialism as well as Secularism.
What you are propagating is a luxury people in Somalia are facing bigger challenges of life and death.

While you are talking about night clubs and alcohol.

Go ask the Alchoholic Aborigines how life is he will tell you the whiteman led him to depression and binge drinking.

 

[DR OSMAN]

Are Australian Aborigines allowed any rights in Australia?
Dhimis had rights you couldnt steal their property or kill them for fan or abuse them if they were under state protection.

The Jewish golden era was achieved during the Muslim rule, Jews prospered under Muslim Spain and the Ottomans.
Whether you embrace Secularism or not the Aryan White culture will always see you as inferior negro.

U r really desperate to run n hide about secularism, what do i care what another citizens see me as or what their culture is, that's personal to them, we are talking about state not infringing on people as they have enforceable powers waryaa to effect my life, some white guy who sees me as inferior negro doesn't, that his free will to think that and I will protect it in-fact or else one day someone will take my views and culture away from me.

Freedom is the only answer to Somalia woes, where citizens protect each other based on that fundamental fact, not back each other because u agree with someone or ur from the same clan, nation, region, religion or other nonsensical identity politics.

I already told u islamic golden age is over, it was good in it's time period, but has lost now to secularism who vastly superior and answers the needs of all it's people. I don't need to pay a tax to keep my disbelief waryaa in the west nor do u, what's wrong with u comparing such a backward system in today modern world, where u want to say we will protect u if u pay a jizya only tha is extortion on my 'freedoms' that god gave, are u satanic or something, seems like something shaydhanka would say. I only pay taxes on what I earn in the west, not based on my religion, race, views, culture, wallahi sick ba tahay, maybe me and u can go for a huge battle ground on somali tv one day and have the people call in and tell us which idea they support.

 

[DR OSMAN]

As long as you dont propagate gaalnimo you can live in Somalia.Dont being social ills to Somalia which is already suffering from the exposure of Western colonialism as well as Secularism.
What you are propagating is a luxury people in Somalia are facing bigger challenges of life and death.

While you are talking about night clubs and alcohol.

Go ask the Alchoholic Aborigines how life is he will tell you the whiteman led him to depression and binge drinking.

What causing life n death is 'cadalad daro' u dumb f*ck, that is the root cause of somalia problem, u look at the after effect such as war and poverty but the root is well known and it can be answered thru secularism and freedom for all not identity politics like religion, clan, or political idealogy being forced on them as the cycle of war, poverty, will continue because ideas clash if being imposed it leads to factionalis, camps, fragmentation, and so many other ills. u r itching for your ak I know cause believers not tolerant when they see what they stand for is infact inferior to what i stand for. Every secularist knows religious people are the ones running with this >>>>>> not us. Naga gabta ma ceeb ba