Should Somalia Dispatch 20,000 Gorgo Troops To Djbouti If They Don't Release Fahad Yasin?

[Louis Vuitton Don]

I am not referring to legal definitions.

My argument is that the Viet Cong are, by all intents and purposes, a terror group by our current definition of the term. It doesn’t really matter what they were referred to back then.

The ANC and the PLO are examples of organisations that were referred to as terrorists yet could easily be substituted into your argument.

They cannot be substituted because they themselves are not terrorists. Just because Israel said PLO are, doesn’t mean they are. And ANC were never terrorists. But that’s going into another whole tangent.

Leaving legal definitions behind, as I said above they were recognized as one of the two legal governments of South Vietnam equal to the South Vietnam regime in the views of the world community.

A state cannot fit the definition of terrorism as it requires politically/ideologically motivated violence against the state by a non-state actor.

A political entity can.

Of course a state can be defined as terrorists. There is a whole definition for it.

State terrorism,

State terrorism has been defined as acts of terrorism conducted by governments or terrorism carried out directly by, or encouraged and funded by, an established government of a state (country) or terrorism practiced by a government against its own people or in support of international terrorism.

By that definition, the United States are a terrorist state in how many bombs and atrocities they committed in Vietnam. And is not fighting Communism for Capitalism, an ideology?

 

[Periplus]

They cannot be substituted because they themselves are not terrorists. Just because Israel said PLO are, doesn’t mean they are. And ANC were never terrorists. But that’s going into another whole tangent.

Leaving legal definitions behind, as I said above they were recognized as one of the two legal governments of South Vietnam equal to the South Vietnam regime in the views of the world community.

Of course a state can be defined as terrorists. There is a whole definition for it.

State terrorism,

By that definition, the United States are a terrorist state in how many bombs and atrocities they committed in Vietnam. And is not fighting Communism for Capitalism, an ideology?

They were recognised as a legitimate political entity after the US couldn’t defeat them.

But what were they before that?

———

As for state terrorism, that is different to a state being classified as terrorists or a terrorist entity. That is a state engaging or sponsoring the use of terror.

As for the Vietnam war, as I remember, the United States was there at the invitation of the South Vietnamese government, which was internationally recognised.

 

[Louis Vuitton Don]

They were recognised as a legitimate political entity after the US couldn’t defeat them.

But what were they before that?

———

As for state terrorism, that is different to a state being classified as terrorists or a terrorist entity. That is a state engaging or sponsoring the use of terror.

As for the Vietnam war, as I remember, the United States was there at the invitation of the South Vietnamese government, which was internationally recognised.

North Vietnam who supported the VC were also recognized up until the unification. VC were also recognized prior to the Paris Accord. They were a legal entity in their fight against the Americans.

I don’t understand your state terrorism remark.

 

[Diaspora ambassador]

Highly trained and can't even beat the shit heads of Al Kabab

 

[Aurelian]

Yes, we should send them from B
Awdal base, and if things got messy, snm will be fine

 

[Kanan]

I don’t want to say anything insensitive but you do realize that Hargeisa and Burco were carpet bombed to the ground right? And that most of your people were mowed down by the military and only reason it stopped in the ‘90s is because Somalia fell apart not because you guys won.

Also, that and this case are two different things. In the first case, siad barre was adamant on killing isaaqs, you’d have to be stupid to not fight back. It’s either you die a coward, or you die trying to defend yourself with the chance of survival. It’s not a hard choice. Whereas this case they’re really not under any threat, no one wants to kill them. They’re going to djibouti because some idiot on twitter called for it

Not entirely true. This is the 80s there was no internet. Radio, letters and phones were heavily regulated Somalia was basically blacked out from the outside world.


Siad Barre's atrocities went unnoticed for a long time untill he bombed the north and massacred civilans in Mogadishu which lead US to ban weapon & ammunition aid towards his government.


When you lack steady supply of weaponry and half your stock is heald by rebels while army is divided into clan militia it is only a matter of time before the bankrupt government falls.

 

[Kanan]

if Somalia really did have an elite force of 20,000 gorgors with armoured vehicles, you do realize that the SL militia would be put to work right?

SL has an army but most of them weren’t properly trained they were just given an AK, a uniform and some money for their loyalty and have probably never felt real combat.

If a war broke out like that the SL army would fall apart pretty quickly. At the end of the day not everyone’s willing to die for their salary.

You're putting too much faith in SNA it's largely unprofessional. Check out you the VOX documentary on Danab elite force.


I've read several reports of the SNA splitting to clan battalions and take part in clan war. They also have a large number of ghost soldiers on the payroll who receive salaries without contributing anything.

 

[MT Foxtrot]

They also have a large number of ghost soldiers on the payroll who receive salaries without contributing anything.

I thought they stopped this practise when the biometric system was introduced in 2018?

This article mentions that a large number of ghost soldiers were removed in early 2019:

Officials say about 10,000 “ghost soldiers” were expunged from the records – roughly one in three troops according to government estimates, though analysts questioned these figures. These fictitious troops either did not exist at all or had long ago deserted.

By taking control of salary payments, Mogadishu is seeking to cut out powerful commanders who for decades ran the Somali National Army (SNA) “as private fiefdoms,” Fiona Blyth from the UN Assistance Mission in Somalia wrote in an April report.

The shake-up was fiercely resisted in some quarters of the army, with several soldiers deserting their barracks in March in protest.

 

[mr steal your naag]

Yeah sure that will be smart with france/china/america having large bases in Djibouti. And Djibouti has fighter jets and attack helicopters while somalia army has a weapon ban.

 

[Arkan]

Djibouti niggas have joined FKD

He’s not Djiboutian lol it’s some Habar Jeclo dude behind the account

 

[mr steal your naag]

He’s not Djiboutian lol it’s some Habar Jeclo dude behind the account

I dont understand why djibouti locked that fahad guy up.

 

[Mckenzie]

Djibouti is a sister state of Somalia, nothing but love, peace and respect between Djibouti city and Mogadishu. Fifth columnists and propagators can never succeed in planting emnity between the two brotherly people.

 

[Arkan]

I dont understand why djibouti locked that fahad guy up.

Djibouti got ties to Rooble, I guess you could say it’s a Irir Samaale thing

Honestly I dunno, they’re just another player like Kenya, UAE etc who undermines Somalia’s sovereignty & interfere in their Affairs.

 

[mr steal your naag]

Djibouti got ties to Rooble, I guess you could say it’s a Irir Samaale thing

Honestly I dunno, they’re just another player like Kenya, UAE etc who undermines Somalia’s sovereignty & interfere in their Affairs.

IOG right now

 

[mr steal your naag]

 

[Kanan]

I thought they stopped this practise when the biometric system was introduced in 2018?

This article mentions that a large number of ghost soldiers were removed in early 2019:

My bad. The report is from '17

More airstrikes, less aid not enough to secure Somalia

U.S. suspension of military aid to the Somali national army until their government can demonstrate better accountability and performance of its forces is appropriate, writes Vanda Felbab-Brown. However, even combined with an increase in U.S. air strikes against Al-Shabab, the policy is inadequate.

www.brookings.edu

But still according to a recent study 50k security forces are deeply divided and polarized by clan dynamics they are not fit to secure Mogadishu let alone invade other regions. It is severally corrupt, divisive and under funded. There is no code it's every clan for itself.


IC were outraged when SFG captured Gedo. The opposition came for his throat. For sake of argument let's say SNA is 100k well trained, armed and disciplined. Invading a stable region like Somaliland is nothing short of political suicide as Al Shabaab is a top pressing priority. IC will cut him off after series of warnings. Thier only chance is supporting reer Khatumo under the table but even then Ethiopia will side with Somaliland due to Berbera corridor. I'm not exaggerating if I say they will field troops on the ground.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://heritageinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Structural-Impediments-to-Security-April-10-Final-1.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi-k47a0ovzAhUBYcAKHTJ-B7sQFnoECA8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw1j5VKcXA3O5u3rI8-BPYuX

 

[MT Foxtrot]

But still according to a recent study 50k security forces are deeply divided and polarized by clan dynamics they are not fit to secure Mogadishu let alone invade other regions. It is severally corrupt, divisive and under funded. There is no code it's every clan for itself.

I don't doubt it. The whole fracas earlier this year proves your point. I'm left scratching my head about what the SFG can actually do to combat qabil loyalties in the military. Maybe ensure units are heterogeneous by mixing candidates from different parts of the country? Test for qabilism, along with competency, when giving promotions?

IC were outraged when SFG captured Gedo. The opposition came for his throat. For sake of argument let's say SNA is 100k well trained, armed and disciplined. Invading a stable region like Somaliland is nothing short of political suicide as Al Shabaab is a top pressing priority. IC will cut him off after series of warnings. Thier only chance is supporting reer Khatumo under the table but even then Ethiopia will side with Somaliland due to Berbera corridor. I'm not exaggerating if I say they will field troops on the ground.

Saaxib, I don't support that guy's delusional plan to attack Somaliland. The SNA's only priority for the foreseeable future should be to liberate the country from Islamist control.

 

[Calaf]

Interpol don't interrogate nor investigate, they only "find and collect"

 

[reer]

They were recognised as a legitimate political entity after the US couldn’t defeat them.

But what were they before that?

———

As for state terrorism, that is different to a state being classified as terrorists or a terrorist entity. That is a state engaging or sponsoring the use of terror.

As for the Vietnam war, as I remember, the United States was there at the invitation of the South Vietnamese government, which was internationally recognised.

south vietnam was a weak puppet state that would later be overthrown. to fight gumeysi you have to get dirty as them if youre a weaker force. if algerians didnt fight dirty they would stay longer as a french province. otherwise level the playing the algerian independence movement should have been given a strong air force.

IC were outraged when SFG captured Gedo. The opposition came for his throat.

hypocrisy from the mucaarad. we all support our adeers. idk why mx should be held to a different standard. in real life i never get passionate about siyaasad but when a non mx starts criticizing farmajo for gedo it grinds my gears.

 

[repo]

State of the SNA in 2020.

Officially numbering 27,000 soldiers (but more likely composed of around 23,000), the SNA is riddled with ghost soldiers, old and sick soldiers incapable of effective fighting or patrolling, and untrained units.

Many soldiers do not own a weapon. Around 60 per cent of the army’s personnel lack any real military capacity. The SNA also lacks logistical, sustainment and medevac capacities.

These shortfalls are remarkable, given the USD $1 billion international investment in the SNA since 2012.

Forward operating bases are regularly overrun and destroyed by al-Shabaab; thus, the SNA is often forced to pay off al-Shabaab units operating in the region to avoid an attack.

The SNA’s poor performance points to a crucial characteristic of Somalia’s army: it is more of a conglomeration of militias than a coherent fighting force.

Many newly recruited units were merely handed booklets about their new role within the SNA, and received no additional training or instructions about the chain of command.

Like the SNA, AMISOM has conducted almost no offensive operations against al-Shabaab since 2016. This is partially a tactical decision, given that the SNA lack the forces necessary to hold any newly captured territory.

They gave booklets to possibly illiterate recruits. What a beautiful show.

https://i.unu.edu/media/cpr.unu.edu/post/3895/HybridConflictSomaliaWeb.pdf