So

[Geeljire]

I understand all of that but they've repeatedly made it known that they're not going anywhere.

Many want to return to Tanzania willingly if the oppurtunity presented itself. Still is an issue for what is right and what is not and not about what i want.

They don't want to go to Tanzania, and I don't wish to see Bantus stranded at sea and starving like the Rohingya of Burma. I think we can get along as country folk as long as there are measures in place against violence.

1) bantus do want to go back home many already have

Prior to the United States' agreement to accommodate Bantu refugees from Somalia, attempts were made to resettle the refugees to their ancestral homes in southeastern Africa. Before the prospect of emigrating to America was raised, this was actually the preference of the Bantus themselves.
In fact, many Bantus voluntarily left the UN camps where they were staying, to seek refuge in Tanzania. Such a return to their ancestral homeland represented the fulfillment of a two-century old dream

2) The rohingya example is not Even comparable at all these people are indegenous and have no other homeland to return to. While bantus have a homeland & roots they were forcefully taken from which can return to

Hindus and Muslims have fundamental differences. One eats the other's God. If that fundamental religious difference was missing, India would be homogenous and cohesive.

And Somalis and bantus do not have fundamental differences?


They have ethnic differences as well as not just religious.

Ethnic clashes in India kill dozens, displace thousands

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/07/25/world/asia/india-assam-violence/

Ethnic clashes in India's northeastern Assam province have left 32 dead as of Wednesday and sent an estimated 150,000 fleeing their homes to escape the violence, police said.

This happens regurarly

Clan conflict actually proves that being the same race isn't always a good thing.

If that was true, Yet you want to add ethnic racial & cultural religious differences in to the mix? *Baffled*

 

[Geeljire]

@KowDheh

Japan is a clear example of the benefits of being a homogenous nation & the total social cohesiveness that comes with it

Japan is a homogeneous nation that has some of the best OECD figures on standard of living, longest life expectancy and very low levels of income inequality,
Lowest crime rates . Compared that to the UK which is (diverse) pluralistic society with greater income, health and social inequality and high crime rate.

So i dont see the problem with this iniative of repatriation if it will trumendously benefit both parties? It is the most compassionate thing to do. The uncompassionate thing to do is to push for something that would be detrimental to both groups in the name of justice & equality.

 

[Hubble]

Britain's economy is top 5 in the world and the crime rates aren't high for a country with it's population size. Healthcare is free and the social housing is available to all vulnerable groups. As for social inequality, I disagree strongly. Britain is run on meritocracy and strives to reduce class barriers. It's possible to become middle class if you work hard enough.

 

[paragon]

Britain's economy is top 5 in the world and the crime rates aren't high for a country with it's population size. Healthcare is free and the social housing is available to all vulnerable groups. As for social inequality, I disagree strongly. Britain is run on meritocracy and strives to reduce class barriers. It's possible to become middle class if you work hard enough.

Japan still fairs better than Britain on many OECD metrics - i.e. longevity, health, infant mortality, rate of chronic disease and lower rate of poverty. Japan has accrued some benefits from its ethnic homogeneity. Pluralistic nations are rife with social inequality between different ethnic groups compared to homogeneous ones. Keep in mind I'm speaking of the developed world.

 

[Hubble]

Maybe Japan's secret to success lies elsewhere. I doubt it's a racial issue but more so their work ethic. Japanese are individualists who work 20 hours a day if need be.

 

[paragon]

Maybe Japan's secret to success lies elsewhere. I doubt it's a racial issue but more so their work ethic. Japanese are individualists who work 20 hours a day if need be.

Japan is more collectivist. I don't know where you are getting that from. I did not base all of their success on ethnic homogeneity but it's certainly adds to it.

 

[Geeljire]

Loool what is this staunch denial that I'm seeing.

I always find it funny how people push for multiculturalism without being able to show me the benefits of demographic and cultural diversity with one speck of evidence of it being given or asked for

Diversity for the sake diversity is probably one of the dumbest arguments you will ever hear

 

[paragon]

Loool what is this staunch denial that I'm seeing.

I always find it funny how people push for multiculturalism without being able to show me the benefits of demographic and cultural diversity with one speck of evidence of it being given or asked for

Diversity for the sake diversity is probably one of the dumbest arguments you will ever hear

In many western countries i.e the UK cadaan people are fleeing the cities because it's too diverse for them. They are under the impression that immigrants are not integrating aka "becoming more Euro" and instead are choosing to live in ethnic enclaves lol. They are saying point blank that multiculturalism doesn't work. Ethnic tensions are certainly increasing and with it a rise in fascism and a favour for right-wing politicians. I don't intend on staying to wait for shit to pop off, when I'm done school so long.

 

[Hubble]

Paragon They believe in individual hard work and this is why they're successful. Japanese don't expect anyone to pick up the slack for them, they don't have that in them.

Geeljire you're making a case for homogeneity in a country where this has failed. Somalis don't agree with your view otherwise they wouldn't have divided the country based on clan. If five clans see their differences as too vast to even share a country on paper, why punish minorities? They might be different but Somalis see each other as shisheeye too.

 

[paragon]

Paragon They believe in individual hard work and this is why they're successful. Japanese don't expect anyone to pick up the slack for them, they don't have that in them.

Geeljire you're making a case for homogeneity in a country where this has failed. Somalis don't agree with your view otherwise they wouldn't have divided the country based on clan. If five clans see their differences as too vast to even share a country on paper, why punish minorities? They might be different but Somalis see each other as shisheeye too.

Since when did being from a collectivist society mean that you are averse to the riggers of hard work. I was merely correcting you. They don't endorse western individualism. They still have an orientation for collectivity and group loyalty - where they consider themselves belonging to ‘in groups’ that take care of them in exchange for loyalty. They are exceedingly loyal to their companies and businesses. The Japanese are collectivist by western standards, perhaps compared to other Asian countries like Korea and China they are more Individualistic.

 

[Hubble]

You did not correct me but let me correct you.

Being an individual and working for your own personal gain and development does not mean that you won't work in groups or value the importance of group effort. Japan might not have ethnic diversity but the people have diverse interests. Their success comes from a national obsession with hard work, maybe you're confusing that with being collectivist.

 

[paragon]

You did not correct me but let me correct you.

Being an individual and working for your own personal gain and development does not mean that you won't work in groups or value the importance of group effort. Japan might not have ethnic diversity but the people have diverse interests. Their success comes from a national obsession with hard work, maybe you're confusing that with being collectivist.

No I'm not. We are discussing two different things. I'm comparing individualism v.s. collectivism and you're talking about work ethic. They have a collectivist orientation that puts harmony of group above the expression of individual opinions and people have a strong sense of shame for losing face, in this way they are more other-directed. They score about 46/100 on a scale for individualism. They are more individualistic only in the sense that they don't have an extended family. Inheritances is passed from the father to the oldest son and the other siblings must make their own way and support their individual families. This is what makes them different from say China and Korea where the extended family is intact.

Btw, you can still have a strong work ethic (with a culture built around that) and come from a collectivist society. The two are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Hubble]

Where is this special collectivism of the Japanese? Explain it with examples. Why can't it be emulated in a more ethnically diverse country? You're all just being racist, Somali Bantu get treated like crap but they'll still rep the flag and country. They even wear what you wear. Why can't they be a part of society? Also no one's going to remove them forcibly so you're both wasting your breath.

 

[John Michael]

@KowDheh have you travelled recently to hiran, what's the situation there atm?

 

[Hubble]

A couple of years ago lakiin meesha argagaxisada ayaa qabatey. Even today they've never really left. There have been clan clashes recently too but I can't remember which clans. Otherwise it's moving on economically.

 

[John Michael]

Do you feel these clan clashes have to do with the upcoming state formation or is it to do with lack of proper governance in the region? It's almost impossible to find non qabilist news sources on what's going on in south somalia.

 

[Hubble]

Zero governance to be fair. I'm not sure if all these mini clan clashes are actually personal vendettas or political struggles. I heard that they're between local clans though instead of xabadkeen. Somalis everywhere have developed a seeflabood mentality. We rarely go the peaceful route first.

 

[paragon]

Where is this special collectivism of the Japanese? Explain it with examples. Why can't it be emulated in a more ethnically diverse country? You're all just being racist, Somali Bantu get treated like crap but they'll still rep the flag and country. They even wear what you wear. Why can't they be a part of society? Also no one's going to remove them forcibly so you're both wasting your breath.

You clearly did not read a thing I wrote did you. They haven't accepted a western brand of individualism. And I'm talking cultures here you are conflating that with individualism with work ethic. You clearly don't know the difference between individualism vs. collectivism. What is wrong with wanting an ethnically homogeneous nation. How is that racist? I'm just ethnocentric. Did we say forcibly? They will leave on their own accord they're very bright and will do whatever is in their best interest. It's you that wouldn't mind they be Somalia's underclass of sharecroppers. I prefer a better and livelier existence for them. If I was one of them I wouldn't bother with a failed state, where the locals want me to be a second-class citizen, that is not a dignified life. Everyone wants self-determination. And if it were up to me either they get their own state or just go where the pasture is greener aka Tanzania. Isn't that what you have in mind. Unlike Nucleus my family never owned bantus, nor did they ever work for me or my ancestors. So I bear no sense of guilt for what my forefather did, as their hands are clean in that respect.

 

[John Michael]

My family never owned anybody. Smh.

My mothers family were farmers but worked on the farm themselves. Authibillah.

 

[paragon]

My family never owned anybody. Smh.

My mothers family were farmers but worked on the farm themselves. Authibillah.

If you insist.