GENETICS Somali Bantu 23andme results

[convincation]

According to Virginia Luling the Eelaay are a noble Reewiin clan residing mostly at Buur Hakaba. The Eyle are two distinct groups living at Buur Heybe. One is the "hunters with dogs" who many anthropologists think are the native hunter-gatherers. The other is a Bantu group, farming clients of the hunters. There are three ethnically distinct groups with similar names.

See Somali Sultanate, p 182 and elsewhere.

@ Apollo: you still do not have results from a real Eyle. A mixed Eelaay from Buur Hakaba will not do it. Omotic was a good guess before we had the genetic data on the pre-1800 Madows. There
were free Goobweyn who came to the Shabelli area from Gedo with the Gobroon. These were NOT brought by the Omanis.

Among the Geledi, chattel slaves of the third generation were born free and joined the Aaytire clan and diya group. The Gosha of the Jubba were largely brought by the Omanis and escaped from various Shabelle clans, in large numbers only after 1840. They are not to be confused with the Gabaweyn, Shiidle, Shabelle, etc who are distinct, independent clans. Most of the early slaves were Arsi and Borana, not Bantu at all. Oromo slaves were common among the nomad clans of the interriver area. See Luling, chap. 7.

Where did these former oromo slaves go? We’re they incorporated into specific bantu tribes or rahanweyn ones?

 

[Apollo]

Omotic was a good guess before we had the genetic data on the pre-1800 Madows.

Everyone besides you knew they were of Bantu origin.

There are no Omotics in Somalia. There are only Cushitic origin ethnic Somalis (natives), Niger-Congo origin Madowweyns (originating from the Arab-Indian Ocean slave trade), and Asiatic admixed multiracial Benadiris (originating from migrant merchants). Descendants of Oromo slaves barely exist in Somalia. Most of the Oromos in Somalia today are first or second generation migrants.

It was a stupid assumption on your part and showed your bias. I have stopped taking you seriously ever since those ridiculous assumptions. You are a bad faith actor with anti-Somali biases. Still I don't take you seriously. Nevermind your silly assumption that haplogroup A (A3b) in the Horn (primarily found in Ethiopians) is of Khoisan origin (you boldly claimed that) while it is actually of Nilote origin and has no ties to the Southern African Khoisan for over 50,000 years (i.e. before the split between Europeans and the Chinese).

They are not to be confused with the Gabaweyn, Shiidle, Shabelle, etc who are distinct, independent clans.

They probably all mix with each other anyway, especially nowadays as Madowweyn people have moved away from rural areas into urban centers. I doubt there will be big distinctions between them besides historically Jubba Madowweyns having slightly more West African/Niger-Congo ancestry than Shabelle ones.

 

[Grant]

There are no Omotics in Somalia. There are only Cushitic origin ethnic Somalis (natives), Niger-Congo origin Madowweyns (originating from the Arab-Indian Ocean slave trade), and Asiatic admixed multiracial Benadiris (originating from migrant merchants). Descendants of Oromo slaves barely exist in Somalia. Most of the Oromos in Somalia today are first or second generation migrants.

It was a stupid assumption on your part and showed your bias. I have stopped taking you seriously ever since those ridiculous assumptions. You are a bad faith actor with anti-Somali biases. Still I don't take you seriously. Nevermind your silly assumption that haplogroup A (A3b) in the Horn (primarily found in Ethiopians) is of Khoisan origin (you boldly claimed that) while it is actually of Nilote origin and has no ties to the Southern African Khoisan for over 50,000 years (i.e. before the split between Europeans and the Chinese).



They probably all mix with each other anyway, especially nowadays as Madowweyn people have moved away from rural areas into urban centers. I doubt there will be big distinctions between them besides Jubba Madowweyns having more West African ancestry than Shabelle ones.

Your assumptions are sillier than mine. At least find DNA for real Eyle and Reer Manyo before saying there are no hunter-gatherers left in Somalia.

Also, intermarriage today does not negate the status of the Goobweyn, Shiidle, Shabelle, etc. as non-slave descendants prior to 1800. While I am aware many Samaales want to believe what you say, your agenda is not supported by Cerulli, Grotanelli, Chitick, Matveyev, Lewis, Luling, Cassanelli, and others, all of whom found remnants of the Bantu expansion.

Stop labeling me only on the basis of some of my early guesses, which I have corrected. Correct your own!

 

[Apollo]

Your assumptions are sillier than mine. At least find DNA for real Eyle and Reer Manyo before saying there are no hunter-gatherers left in Somalia.

The person in question was Eeyle. Plus an official peer-reviewed study has already sampled the Booni showing high Cushitic ancestry in them along with Bantu admixture, both Neolithic components being the majority of their ancestry. Nothing pure or paleolithic relics about them. As for the reer Manyo, they are COASTAL.. if you think coastal people are going to be pure paleo relics, you are absolutely deluded.

Also, intermarriage today does not negate the status of the Goobweyn, Shiidle, Shabelle, etc. as non-slave descendants prior to 1800. While I am aware many Samaales want to believe what you say, your agenda is not supported by Cerulli, Grotanelli, Chitick, Matveyev, Lewis, Luling, Cassanelli, and others, all of whom found remnants of the Bantu expansion.

If any of them take 23andMe tests they will get recent relatives from Kenya, Tanzania, Uganda, Malawi etc.

Relative matching goes back 10 generation, or about 300 years ago. Nothing early Bantu expansion about that. I know of a Somali Bantu who has many 23andMe relative matches from Tanzania. This alone debunks your theory.

 

[Grant]

The person is question was Eeyle. Plus an official peer-reviewed study has already sampled the Booni showing high Cushitic ancestry in them along with Bantu admixture, both Neolithic components being the majority of their ancestry. Nothing pure or paleolithic relics about them. As for the reer Manyo, they are COASTAL.. if you think coastal people are going to pure paleo relics, you are absolutely deluded.



If any of them take 23andMe tests they will get recent relatives from Kenya, Tanzania, Uganda, Malawi etc.

Relative matching goes back 10 generation, or about 300 years ago. Nothing early Bantu expansion about that. I know of a Somali Bantu who has many 23andMe relative matches from Tanzania. This alone debunks your theory.

The person is question was Eeyle. Plus an official peer-reviewed study has already sampled the Booni showing high Cushitic ancestry in them along with Bantu admixture, both Neolithic components being the majority of their ancestry. Nothing pure or paleolithic relics about them. As for the reer Manyo, they are COASTAL.. if you think coastal people are going to pure paleo relics, you are absolutely deluded.



If any of them take 23andMe tests they will get recent relatives from Kenya, Tanzania, Uganda, Malawi etc.

Relative matching goes back 10 generation, or about 300 years ago. Nothing early Bantu expansion about that. I know of a Somali Bantu who has many 23andMe relative matches from Tanzania. This alone debunks your theory.

ONE Somali Bantu and one guy from Baidoa? No reer Manyo, just guesses.

And you think I cant be taken seriously?

 

[Apollo]

ONE Somali Bantu and one guy from Baidoa? No reer Manyo, just guesses.

And you think I cant be taken seriously?

Whatever, I have high conviction in what I said previous. Your fake theories are a house of cards that will be debunked with each new study.

 

[Nabiil]

She’s much more mixed than the other girl from a few days ago and you can tell from the way she looks
35% Somali
15% Ethiopian Eritrean ( most of this is likely Arab since 23andMe confuses Somali+Arab for Ethiopian)
35% Bantu
5% Hindi
3% Arab ( could actually be up to 15% Arab for the reasons above)

One more thing I wanna add is 23andMe is getting better with the crowd sourced regions.
Ethnic somalis mostly get mudug Bari and banaadir whereas Bantus and reer xamar/baraawe get the Shabelles and Jubbas.

For example this mixed Kenyan has Somali ancestry with 23andMe linking it to lower shabele which makes sense considering the history and communities in places like baraawe



I wanna see them add waqooyi/sl regions regardless of the political stuff. My closest DNA relatives are from waqooyi/galbeed then Bari finally koonfur so DNA from different regions is distinct enough to recognise like other countries despite Somalis being pretty homogeneous

 

[Apollo]

@Nabiil

Is she Bajuni? That high Eritrean-Ethiopian score is likely a mix of Somali and Arabian. I doubt she is a normal Somali Bantu, something coastal going on here.

 

[Stark]

@Nabiil

Is she Bajuni? That high Eritrean-Ethiopian score is likely a mix of Somali and Arabian. I doubt she is a normal Somali Bantu, something coastal going on here.

You're really underestimating their knowledge on what populations make up the ethnicity, this is Google by the way. The Ethiopian Southern Arabian ancestry is not or equal to the Arabian dna of today possibly with some admixture (i.e Persian, African). It's a simple fact that some Ethiopians(Wardei and Borana) have migrated into the Somali Coast between the Juba and the Shabelle rivers.

 

[Apollo]

You're really underestimating their knowledge on what populations make up the ethnicity this is Google by the way. The Ethiopian Southern Arabian ancestry is not or equal to the Arabian dna of today possibly with some admixture (i.e Persian, African) dna. It's a simple fact that some Ethiopians(Wardei and Borana Oromos) have migrated into the Somali Coast between the Juba and the Shabelle rivers.

Unlikely,

23andMe underestimates the Arabian in Somalis with Arabian %s and give them inflated Habesha scores. It is a well-known error.

She has to do G25 coordinates to get her real precise percentages.

 

[Stark]

Unlikely,

23andMe underestimates the Arabian in Somalis with Arabian %s and give them inflated Habesha scores. It is a well-known error.

Just your theory.

 

[Apollo]

Just your theory.

Probably only about 5% of it is real Ethiopian, like with that other girl posted earlier. This one has Arab % and 23andMe's algo is too dumb to differentiate multigenerational Somali+Arab mixed segments from Habesha ones.

 

[motivation]

Unlikely,

23andMe underestimates the Arabian in Somalis with Arabian %s and give them inflated Habesha scores. It is a well-known error.

She has to do G25 coordinates to get her real precise percentages.

hmmm how much habesha do you think would pop up if i did a 23andme dna test? im quarter arab

 

[Apollo]

hmmm how much habesha do you think would pop up if i did a 23andme dna test? im quarter arab

Can't say for sure the %, but it gives too much Habesha if you are Somali and part Arab.

G25 coordinates can give you the correct percentages (some third party tool you can do after 23andMe results).

 

[Stark]

23andMe only gets it right with first generation half Somali half Arab. It messes up with generations afterwards because the segments get scrambled around.

Your theory makes no sense, which as well low-balling the company's credibility.

 

[Apollo]

Your theory makes no sense, which as well low-balling the company's credibility.

You have too much faith in them. Their algorithm is not that sophisticated.

 

[Stark]

You have too much faith in them. Their algorithm is not that sophisticated.

I don't? I know they aren't perfect.

 

[Apollo]

I don't? I know they aren't perfect.

23andMe is actually kind of backwards and not at the bleeding edge of the genomics revolution. They are still using early 2010s SNP arrays despite the price of whole genome sequencing has fallen by a lot.

Consumer genomics will change your life, whether you get tested or not - Genome Biology

With more than 10 million genotyped customers, the consumer genomics industry is maturing and becoming a mainstream phenomenon. At last, innovations and applications, some unforeseen, are being brought to the masses.

link.springer.com

 

[Grant]

Where did these former oromo slaves go? We’re they incorporated into specific bantu tribes or rahanweyn ones?

Luling says freed slaves of whatever origin were incorporated directly into the former owners' lineage among the Wacdaan. The nomad clans did the same, but for the most part just Oromo who had been used as stockmen. The Reewiin usually did not discriminate and accepted many Bantu sheegatos as well as Oromos. As noted above, the Geledi freedmen joined the multi-lineage Aaytiri clan, most of which was Bantu, but did have Oromo elements.

Oromo slaves were most common among the nomad clans and were usually used in the care and herding of livestock, rarely for farming. Consequently, they became part of nomad lineages when they were freed.

 

[Username]

Lol I knew this guy in highschool, to think he was more Somali than Kenyan all this time