Somali cities thought experiment

[Cumar]

This is a random thought experiment in which I paired up a Somali city with a US city. Obviously not a direct comparison, I'm just trying to think of what services, industries dominate in certain areas of Somalia considering we are a federal country like the US.

Ie: US has the Silicon in Northern California, the Biotech cluster in the Northeast. The southern petroleum cluster in Texas.

Cities serves as part of regional economic clusters especially in federal counties like the US.

Hopefully one day we will have regional clusters of employment and education and industry in Somalia.

Mogadishu - New York

Hargeisa - Dallas

Djibouti - New Orleans

Berbera - Houston

Boosaaso - San Francisco

Kismayo - San Diego

Burco - San Antonio

Gaalkacyo - Detroit

Borama - Milwaukee

Garowe - San Jose

Baydhabo - Sacramento

Beledweyne - Atlanta

Jigjiga - Denver

Dir Dawa - Dallas

Gariisa - Pheonix

Gabiley - Kansas City

Las Anod - Oklahoma City

Erigavo - Minneapolis

 

[Cumar]

I think we could have:

Food and Agricultural cluster: Waqooyi Galbeed and Awdal

And Jubboyinka + Shabeellaha Hoose + Dhexe

Technology cluster:Bari and Nugaal

Financial Services Cluster: Mogadishu, Hargiesa

Livestock Cluster: DDSI, Togdheer, Sool and Sanaag

 

[anonymous34]

Shaao laan what a weird thread.

 

[Cumar]

Shaao laan what a weird thread.

You're trying too hard. You're supposed to insult my clan. This is the politics section after all.

Seriously though what is your thoughts if any.

 

[anonymous34]

You're trying too hard. You're supposed to insult my clan. This is the politics section after all.

Seriously though what is your thoughts if any.

what do you mean by trying to hard?

​

Do you want me to insult your clan?

​

I personally think its a interesting thread tbh. Muqdisho is the best city of them all .

But it's also a boring thread so dont expect to hit more than 3 pages

 

[Cumar]

what do you mean by trying to hard?

​

Do you want me to insult your clan?

​

I personally think its a interesting thread tbh. Muqdisho is the best city of them all .

But it's also a boring thread so dont expect to hit more than 3 pages

I'm a boring person which is what I meant and embrace that. Thinking of stuff like this is fun for me. If you met me in real life you'd probably think I was a big nerd. Its just my nature.

 

[anonymous34]

I'm a boring person which is what I meant and embrace that. Thinking of stuff like this is fun for me. If you met me in real life you'd probably think I was a big nerd. Its just my nature.

Ahh nered are decent people most of the time


I'll take a nerd somali guy over a gangbanger or a worse a WANNABE gangbanger any day

 

[whitehartlane]

@Cumar why u giving us reer bari the technology

For tht to happen we need atleast 20/30 years of significant investments in education...

We need to eat tomorrow ...

How about u add some fishing licenses as an incentive...negro please

 

[Figo]

Don't disrespect Galkacyo like that man waku see?


Galkacyo is a thriving city. The only negative thing about this city is the locals like to have a karbaash sessions here and there.

Business is always good there too.
Galkacyo land prices aren't $1.

 

[Cumar]

Don't disrespect Galkacyo like that man waku see?


Galkacyo is a thriving city. The only negative thing about this city is the locals like to have a karbaash sessions here and there.

Business is always good there too.
Galkacyo land prices aren't $1.

Don't worry my brudda, I think Puntland administered Gaalkacyo is more akin to the affluent Detroit suburbs like Ann Arbor and Bloomfield Hills as opposed to the inner city kkk. I made a mental distinction between the two mamuuls.

Rest assured I have included the results of the world bank report.

 

[Thegoodshepherd]

@Cumar there simply are not enough people to populate our cities to that extent. Somalia also lacks the freedom of movement for everyone necessary for the development of economic clusters.

Most of these cities will simply continue drawing on the countryside inhabited by the clans already living there. Essentially, Somali cities have a limited pool to draw from due to clan reasons. It would have been better and more economically efficient if we all lived in 4 large cities, but it was not meant to be. A place like Bosaso would not exist today were it not for these dynamics.

 

[TheAnswer]

Jeffrey Sachs tried to lift a Somali village in Kenya out of extreme poverty through his Millennium Villages Project. It was written about in the book The Idealist, which was critical of him and the project overall. The project provided the village with essentially a very large amount of money and advice/guidance for development, but it turns out lack of money is not the only issue keeping Somalis underdeveloped. An aggressively backward and obstinate culture plays a big role in keeping Somalis poor and their settlements underdeveloped.

 

[Thegoodshepherd]

Jeffrey Sachs tried to lift a Somali village in Kenya out of extreme poverty through his Millennium Villages Project. It was written about in the book The Idealist, which was critical of him and the project overall. The project provided the village with essentially a very large amount of money and advice/guidance for development, but it turns out lack of money is not the only issue keeping Somalis underdeveloped. An aggressively backward and obstinate culture plays a big role in keeping Somalis poor and their settlements underdeveloped.

Instead of choosing to locate the village next to the Tana river, Sachs chose some tuulo in the middle of nowhere where agriculture was not viable. Sachs is simply too stupid.

 

[TheAnswer]

Instead of choosing to locate the village next to the Tana river, Sachs chose some tuulo in the middle of nowhere where agriculture was not viable. Sachs is simply too stupid.

Changing the village location would have helped solve some of the problems, although it would have opened him up to criticism of cherry picking convenient locations while he was on a quixotic quest to prove that poverty could be reduced wherever it was. But it would not change the cultural issues. The Somali villagers were resistant to doing things a new way (many refused to use hay), kept having boatloads of children, and even at the village level clan politics and misappropriation of resources were huge issues. It's like trying to teach a man to fish, but the moment you turn away he runs away with your fishing equipment.

 

[Thegoodshepherd]

Changing the village location would have helped solve some of the problems, although it would have opened him up to criticism of cherry picking convenient locations while he was on a quixotic quest to prove that poverty could be reduced wherever it was. But it would not change the cultural issues. The Somali villagers were resistant to doing things a new way (many refused to use hay), kept having boatloads of children, and even at the village level clan politics and misappropriation of resources were huge issues. It's like trying to teach a man to fish, but the moment you turn away he runs away with your fishing equipment.

I think that criticism is actually true. There is a reason why Antarctica is uninhabited even 200 years after its discovery. The Sahara desert is mostly uninhabited also. So we know for sure that there are environments in which economic development is difficult to impossible. I think modern development is based on agriculture and that nomadic pastoralism cannot serve as an economic base for a modern town or state. The cultural toolkit needed to be a successful nomad is basically in opposition to that which is needed to be a settled agriculturalist. In the developed world regions that look like Somalia like Western Australia or West Texas are basically owned by a handful of people and are mostly ranches. We have to work with what we have, but our environment is utter shit.

 

[TheAnswer]

I think that criticism is actually true. There is a reason why Antarctica is uninhabited even 200 years after its discovery. The Sahara desert is mostly uninhabited also. So we know for sure that there are environments in which economic development is difficult to impossible. I think modern development is based on agriculture and that nomadic pastoralism cannot serve as an economic base for a modern town or state. The cultural toolkit needed to be a successful nomad is basically in opposition to that which is needed to be a settled agriculturalist. In the developed world regions that look like Somalia like Western Australia or West Texas are basically owned by a handful of people and are mostly ranches. We have to work with what we have, but our environment is utter shit.

What lifts nations out of poverty is large-scale commercial agriculture (instead of just subsistence agriculture). Unfortunately, very few places inhabited by Somalis come with natural environments suitable for commercial agriculture. Our lands are dry, infertile, beset by droughts and pestilence, and lacking in infrastructure (roads, ports, etc). If we somehow we managed to address all of these problems, some like reoccurring drought being almost impossible to address, then Somalis will need to find export markets for their agricultural goods in a very competitive global economy, where many farmers in developed countries with fertile soils and thousands of years of accumulated expertise still receive substantial subsidies from their governments. When you consider all of this, agriculture starts looking less promising. The best hope for lifting Somalis out of extreme poverty is making improvements to pastoralism, the only source of livelihood that works with our environment, while also trying to take advantage of the few areas that are promising for Somalia e.g. fishing, energy, ports.

 

[Silky]

@Cumar there simply are not enough people to populate our cities to that extent. Somalia also lacks the freedom of movement for everyone necessary for the development of economic clusters.

Most of these cities will simply continue drawing on the countryside inhabited by the clans already living there. Essentially, Somali cities have a limited pool to draw from due to clan reasons. It would have been better and more economically efficient if we all lived in 4 large cities, but it was not meant to be. A place like Bosaso would not exist today were it not for these dynamics.

So does that mean you agree or disagree with clan federalism as peddled by the faux-federalists, that Somalia is being pushed towards

 

[felloff]

Agriculture revolution including agropastrolism and water harvesting, then industrial revolution then service industry then a consumer industry.

Jubaland and SWS has the best chances right now, they can develop ieasier, northern regions can develop agrculture in seasonal river catchment areas and terrace mountains and tree planting. Central somalia can start fixing the lakes is used to have.

Fishing would be the best agriculture to take in the coast then fixing up livestock.

 

[felloff]

I also beleive somalia should use clusters, in somaliland the west coast around zelia should be fishing and tourism, awdal farming, oodweyne oil, togdheer large scale faming off the seasonal tugdher, erigavo farming in the borders of daallo, laascoond to garowe will inshallah be an oil cluster maybe tuuwark can be a capital for both somalia and somaliland

 

[Thegoodshepherd]

What lifts nations out of poverty is large-scale commercial agriculture (instead of just subsistence agriculture). Unfortunately, very few places inhabited by Somalis come with natural environments suitable for commercial agriculture. Our lands are dry, infertile, beset by droughts and pestilence, and lacking in infrastructure (roads, ports, etc). If we somehow we managed to address all of these problems, some like reoccurring drought being almost impossible to address, then Somalis will need to find export markets for their agricultural goods in a very competitive global economy, where many farmers in developed countries with fertile soils and thousands of years of accumulated expertise still receive substantial subsidies from their governments. When you consider all of this, agriculture starts looking less promising. The best hope for lifting Somalis out of extreme poverty is making improvements to pastoralism, the only source of livelihood that works with our environment, while also trying to take advantage of the few areas that are promising for Somalia e.g. fishing, energy, ports.

I agree with you mostly, but I strongly disagree with the bolded part. I don't think that pastoralism has much room for improvement in Somalia. Land productivity is declining and degrading quickly. A country of 14 million cannot have livestock exporting as its main economic engine. It is simply too small and the potential for meaningful growth is limited.

Our best hope is probably for increased urbanization and diversification into as many sectors as possible.