Somali Eid in Vermont

[Geeljire]

Geeljire. There are too many Bantus to make them relocate. Just cos a few thousands moved back to Tanzanian doesn't mean anything. It's a drop in the ocean compared to the whole of Somali Bantu population. I don't wanna oppress them by denying them land or farms or the right to live freely as they wish

If the compensation is right and the incentives are there they will take Tanzanias and mozambiques offer. This has happened to other groups throughout history plenty of examples to choose from.

land is owned & occupied by somali clans. Its not a matter of denying them.

Every minority group in the whole world has their own little sub culture whilst also adhering to the wider dominant culture.

Let it go guys. They're not recent immigrants. They've been here for over a century and they are here to stay.

There is no such thing. They may participate in somali culture, but they have no entitlement or claim to it. thats just reality for every non indegenous minority ethnic group across the world. They are not AAs!

very weak invalid arguments.
show me the benefits of demographic and cultural diversity with one speck of evidence of it being given or asked for?

unless you can there is no case or argument on your part.

 

[Gambit]

Our forefathers benefited from the slavery of their forefathers. We brought them there so we should take responsibilty for them. They aren't ethnically Somali but they're not going to leave Somalia so we may as well learn to co-exist. Somalis are too racist though so fat chance of it happening. Tbh the Bantu "problem" shouldn't be a priority for us anyway, we have much bigger problems.

 

[Bielsa]

If the compensation is right and the incentives are there they will take Tanzanias and mozambiques offer. This has happened to other groups throughout history plenty of examples to choose from.

land is owned & occupied by somali clans. Its not a matter of denying them.



There is no such thing. They may participate in somali culture, but they have no entitlement or claim to it. thats just reality for every non indegenous minority ethnic group across the world. They are not AAs!

very weak invalid arguments.
show me the benefits of demographic and cultural diversity with one speck of evidence of it being given or asked for?

unless you can there is no case or argument on your part.

Even if there are no benefits of demographic and cultural diversity it still doesn't change reality, which is your plan of providing enough incentives is futile. They will only legitimately leave if they are being seriously persecuted and I hope you're not advocating for that. And I don't support the idea of denying them rights to buy and sell land or properties, or owning businesses.

Remember almost 90% of Somalia are inhabited by ethnic Somalis.

We can't turn back the clock. What happened in the past happened. Very few countries in the world are homogenous. Most nations sre multi ethnic. I'm not saying it's a great thing but it's the reality.

 

[Geeljire]

but they're not going to leave Somalia so we may as well learn to co-exist.

im not sure if you havent noticed , but thousands have already left somalia!

Somalis are too racist though so fat chance of it happening.

my point proven!!

 

[Bielsa]

Thousands have left but that's like 1% of the Somali Bantus.

 

[Geeljire]

Even if there are no benefits of demographic and cultural diversity it still doesn't change reality, which is your plan of providing enough incentives is futile.

it does change the reality, how are you going to champion something with no evidence? If they own no land and their situation in somalia isnt exaclty good and it wont change with them staying without us shooting ourselves in the leg. Pushing what you and other folks are doing would lead to warfare.

So the incentives are there , we can provide further by negotiations with the tanzanian & mozambiquen govt as they have open up the door from them to become naturalized citizens and gain land & property.

They will only legitimately leave if they are being seriously persecuted and I hope you're not advocating for that. And I don't support the idea of denying them rights to buy and sell land or properties, or owning businesses.

They will leave when the compansation and the incentives are their. Not land or farm land. As they are owned by somali clans. You cannot give them something thats not theirs. That would only cause dispute between them and somali clans.

my preposition is not for every single bantu, but a significant number of them.

Remember almost 90% of Somalia are inhabited by ethnic Somalis.

85% actually! it used to be 95% before the war.

We can't turn back the clock. What happened in the past happened. Very few countries in the world are homogenous. Most nations sre multi ethnic. I'm not saying it's a great thing but it's the reality

Embracing reality would be to make the necessary adjustments. If no one loses in this preposition and its win win. i dont see why anyone would be against it. there is no valid evidence or argument against it.

Not only would it desolve inter ethnic racial conflicts and make a nation progress more, it would ultimately lead for the the highest potential social cohesiveness.

 

[Geeljire]

Thousands have left but that's like 1% of the Somali Bantus.

correction Tens of thousands! so it would be higher procentage than that.

 

[Gambit]

You're right. In SL I saw hardly any bantu. That's why it's more of a southern problem, it was their forefathers who were mainly involved in the slave trade. Now their descendants have gotta deal with it. How can you not feel for them though? They are the descendants of slaves. Now they live as second class citizens in foreign lands that they didn't choose to go to. And now people complain about them because there's no longer a need for slaves. You can't just send them "home", the only home they've ever known is Somalia.

 

[Geeljire]

Why do i see such lack of compassion from people!

. Before the prospect of emigrating to America was raised, this was actually the preference of the Bantus themselves. In fact, many Bantus voluntarily left the UN camps where they were staying, to seek refuge in Tanzania. Such a return to their ancestral homeland represented the fulfillment of a two-century old dream

http://www.cis.org/SomaliBantuRefugees

Who are we to act so inconsiderate and not grant them their dream of returning to their homeland?

 

[Geeljire]

Kenya and Tanzania have much better economies than Somalia. I don't get why they still stay in Somalia.

Tanzania Was Willing.

In 1994, the Tanzanian ministry of home affairs had written to the UNHCR “it is our intention to have these Somalis (Mushungulis) resettled and hence have a permanent solution over this matter. We in principle have no objection in resettling them to Tanzania as and when the conditions for such resettlement are fulfilled.”17 Though Tanzania was clearly ready to accept the refugees, according to Van Lehman, the UNCHR “did not provide any logistical support to process resettlement questions and address Tanzania’s questions. Additionally, the UNHCR in Geneva did not provide Tanzania with financial or logistical guarantees to support the resettlement and integration of the Mushungulis into Tanzania.”18

http://www.cis.org/SomaliBantuRefugees

look tanzania is asking for them to return back in 1994. but no one gave them the financial support. If somalia compensates and gives them financial support they will take all the mushingilis. they have already taken tens of thousands.

They even interviewed many bantus who said that they wish nothing more than to return to their homeland and its their dream.

Who are we to stop them from achieving their dream? Are we that evil?

According to Van Lehman’s report “northern Mozambique and southern Tanzania, where the Somali Mushungulis have historic ethnic ties, are good examples of sparsely populated regions that could easily absorb many thousands of resettled refugees

See

 

[Gambit]

I don't understand why they choose to stay, but they're staying and the'yre mulitiplying. I think its best fot everyone if they leave but I don't think they're just gonna walk away.

 

[Gambit]

Tanzania Was Willing.

http://www.cis.org/SomaliBantuRefugees

look tanzania is asking for them to return back in 1994. but no one gave them the financial support. If somalia compensates and gives them financial support they will take all the mushingilis. they have already taken tens of thousands.

They even interviewed many bantus who said that they wish nothing more than to return to their homeland and its their dream.

Who are we to stop them from achieving their dream? Are we that evil?



See

They didn't move because the UN failed to help in their relocation right? It makes sense, the UN would never have Somalia's best interests at heart.

 

[Geeljire]

I don't understand why they choose to stay, but they're staying and the'yre mulitiplying. I think its best fot everyone if they leave but I don't think they're just gonna walk away.

they did not chose to stay, they are forced to stay.. Its because the UN and Somalia isnt giving tanzania and mozambique any financial or logistical guarantees to support the resettlement and integration of the Mushungulis.

if we do that , because this is what i meant by compensation. surely a huge section of them will live freely in their homeland.
its the best possible outcome for both groups.

 

[Geeljire]

They didn't move because the UN failed to help in their relocation right? It makes sense, the UN would never have Somalia's best interests at heart.

Yes that was in 1994. In 2012 the tanzanian govt situation politically and economically improved and they gave as many as they could citizenship and land property tens of thousands. They did it without support from the UN.

imagine if they got support.

 

[Sheikh Kulkuli]

Guys you need to grow up.
Somali bantus are here to stay.
You cant concoct theories that will remove guilt from your conscience.
Somali bantus are the most productive, humble and humane people I have seen and have suffered alot.
Even today they are being ethnic clinsed in Middle Shabelle.

 

[Gambit]

Yes in 2012 the tanzanian govt situation politically and economically improved and they gave as many as they could citizenship and land property tens of thousands. They did it without support from the UN.

imagine if they got support.

So you're saying they want to leave and Tanzania is willing to accept them. If that's true the bantu problem isn't really a problem is it? All we need is stability to rebuild and when we do, we'll be able to fund their relocation, right?

 

[ciddhartha]

land is owned & occupied by somali clans. Its not a matter of denying them.

Ileen the kid supports the theft of Bantu land.

I for one am glad they joined Al Shabaab and terrorize the people who terrorized them.

 

[Geeljire]

So you're saying they want to leave and Tanzania is willing to accept them. If that's true the bantu problem isn't really a problem is it? All we need is stability to rebuild and when we do, we'll be able to fund their relocation, right?

Yes according to reports. The SJWs want to force them to stay Even give bantus land that is owned by somali clans.

But it is as simple as you said!

 

[Freebandz]

Yes according to reports. The SJWs want to force them to stay Even give bantus land that is owned by somali clans.

But it is as simple as you said!

Nomad the people your arguing with don't come from south somalia so there unaffected by these people. 2 of them are from Ethiopia while the other is from northwest somalia so don't waste your time

 

[Duchess]

Guys you need to grow up.
Somali bantus are here to stay.
You cant concoct theories that will remove guilt from your conscience.
Somali bantus are the most productive, humble and humane people I have seen and have suffered alot.
Even today they are being ethnic clinsed in Middle Shabelle.

I don't support their ethnic cleansing, but let's be real here: Bantus participated in the civil war. They are not any more or less humane than other Somalis so this attempt of absolving them of all guilt is disingenuous at best. The only groups who did not participate in the civil war were the cadcad communities. They were defenseless and that is why there are next to no cadcads left in Somalia. On the other hand, the Bantu population grew exponentially in the last 24 years. Explain that.