Somali historians talks at library of congress yesterday

[Midas]

I saw this video uploaded and thought it would be an intresting talk by this somali historian mulhtar the guy who wrote the historical dictionary. But man the guy just rambled for the first half barley talking about somalia. Then in the second half he basically said he's skeptical about the idea that islam came to northern somalia first. Saying there were just pastoralists and there was no towns and trade.
Not gonna lie this made me lose some respect for him. He didn't even mention any of the somali sultnates. Just talked about how harsh the northern somali environment is. @Idilinaa @Emir of Zayla

 

[Midas]

He didn't even mention a single chronology

 

[abdi_]

60 minutes is a pretty shallow time to cover much of anything, I took a look at their channel, it seems to be the average time alloted to their speakers. Although he is one of the few that is not sharing it with a fellow guest or a presenter.

 

[The Oponian Guild]

He dwelt on one topic during his allotted time, he should’ve been more concise and not dwelt on northern somali topography instead giving a broad synopsis

 

[Idilinaa]

He is part of a group revisionist southern tribalist historians, who creates this imagined Southern vs Northern dichotomy. And has been called out by other historians and writers who claim them to be heightened with regional ethnocentrism.

So he tries to shun the north a lot and create imagined history for the south to posit against them, his basis for the South being islamized earlier is the fradulent Al-Zunuj manuscript, thats been written off by modern historians. And some vague Arab reference to navigational difficulties in the north.

No other sources collaborates those claims and the earliest sources that mention the south talk about them as mostly pagan Al-Idrisi and Al-Masudi , becoming fully islamized by 1200s

Whereas Zayla is mentioned at the earliest 800s to have Muslims , and being an Islamic state in the late 900s and archeology pretty much shows the inhabitants in the interior were Muslim around 700s eating a halal diet.

Early Muslims in Africa had a cosmopolitan halal diet

Excavations by archaeologists in Ethiopia have discovered that early Muslim communities ate a cosmopolitan diet as the region became a trading centre for luxury goods. - HeritageDaily - Archaeology News

www.heritagedaily.com

The Eastern coast was also mentioned to have converted and had an organized sultanate with coastal towns around early mid 900s

Also there has been shown that not only was there chronology of towns in the North , specifically the North Western region was cultivated with agro-pastoral farmers much like the south was and stretched into the Hararghe/Showa/Awash area.
Even people between Zayla and Berbera farmed crops, according to medieval description and used the same grain storage system and similar farming calendar.

Both the South and the North had a significant Semi-nomadic pastoralists population alongside towns people and agrarian communities.

 

[Midas]

60 minutes is a pretty shallow time to cover much of anything, I took a look at their channel, it seems to be the average time alloted to their speakers. Although he is one of the few that is not sharing it with a fellow guest or a presenter.

Yeah that's why was expecting him to move quickly and briefly give an overview. But the first half was him just talking about the riddance wars and how islam spread through war,migration and trade. He also talked about how maybe some early muslims in the north were migrants expecting abubakabr and the ridda wars. And how some later muslims were shia

 

[Midas]

He is part of a group revisionist southern tribalist historians, who creates this imagined Southern vs Northern dichotomy. And has been called by other historians and writers claim them to be heightened with regional ethnocentrism.

So he tries to shun the north a lot and create imagined history for the south to posit against them, his basis for the South being islamized earlier is the fradulent Al-Zunuj manuscript, thats been written off by modern historians. And some vague Arab reference to navigational difficulties in the north.

No other sources collaborates those claims and the earliest sources that mention the south talk about them as mostly pagan Al-Idrisi and Al-Masudi , becoming fully islamized by 1200s

Whereas Zayla is mentioned at the earliest 800s to have Muslims , and being an Islamic state in the late 900s and archeology pretty much shows the inhabitants in the interior were Muslim around 700s eating a halal diet.

Early Muslims in Africa had a cosmopolitan halal diet

Excavations by archaeologists in Ethiopia have discovered that early Muslim communities ate a cosmopolitan diet as the region became a trading centre for luxury goods. - HeritageDaily - Archaeology News

www.heritagedaily.com

The Eastern coast was also mentioned to have converted and had an organized sultanate with coastal towns around early mid 900s

Also there has been shown that not only was there chronology of towns in the North , specifically the North Western region was cultivated with agro-pastoral farmers much like the south was and stretched into the Hararghe/Showa/Awash area.
Even people between Zayla and Berbera people farmed, according to medieval description

Both the South and the North had a significant Semi-nomadic pastoralists population alongside them.

I've listened to ali jimale ahmed that guy seemed more focused on not letting minorties be oppressed and he doesn't strike me as too unbalance. While this guy was juts subtle denigrating northern somalia and pastoralists for half the lecture. When somebody asked what they traded he didn't even mention livestock.

 

[Idilinaa]

I've listened to ali jimale ahmed that guy seemed more focused on not letting minorties be oppressed and he doesn't strike me as too unbalance. While this guy was juts subtle denigrating northern somalia and pastoralists for half the lecture. When somebody asked what they traded he didn't even mention livestock.

I was specifically speaking about Mohamed Mukhtar, who is from the major southern tribes like rahanweyn who peddles a southern regionalist exclusionary interpretation of Somali history. Kinda like a reverse of what Northern Somaliland nationalists do , where they try to shun the south and pretend they have very little relationship to the south and/or east of them or are more prominent/progressive than them.

He is focus is on the major southern tribes mostly and he doesn't too often develve into minorities whom i am assuming are the more recent bantu and xabash communities, you are referring to.

It's a shame really.

 

[The Oponian Guild]

What’s his grievance towards northerners? I don’t think RX suffered during the kacaan era (although political repression existed) and why the subtle denigration of northern Somalia?

 

[Midas]

I was specifically speaking about Mohamed Mukhtar, who is from the major southern tribes like rahanweyn who peddles a southern regionalist exclusionary interpretation of Somali history. Kinda like a reverse of what Northern Somaliland nationalists do , where they try to shun the south and pretend they have very little relationship to the south and/or east of them or are more prominent/progressive than them.

He is focus is on the major southern tribes mostly and he doesn't too often develve into minorities whom i am assuming are the more recent bantu and xabash communities, you are referring to.

It's a shame really.

What's crazy is that he didn't even talk about the southern sultanates. It's sad and funny that you'd expect the library of congress to have high standards but everything they invite somebody to speak on African history half of their talk is nonsense

 

[Idilinaa]

What’s his grievance towards northerners? I don’t think RX suffered during the kacaan era (although political repression existed) and why the subtle denigration of northern Somalia?

I am not really sure to be honest. It could be that they felt excluded since Raxanweyn were more rural and politics in Somalia during that time was centered in the urban centers like Mogadishu etc, which they lacked presence in.

Whatever the reason may be they should keep modern/current political disputes and grievances out of history. Same goes for Northern and Eastern Somalis.

 

[Emir of Zayla]

What's crazy is that he didn't even talk about the southern sultanates. It's sad and funny that you'd expect the library of congress to have high standards but everything they invite somebody to speak on African history half of their talk is nonsense

As expected of African historians

 

[Idilinaa]

What's crazy is that he didn't even talk about the southern sultanates. It's sad and funny that you'd expect the library of congress to have high standards but everything they invite somebody to speak on African history half of their talk is nonsense

I don't think he is a bad person, he records a lot of decent facts and history. Especially around raxanweyn and the south.

They should let him speak but bring in more variety next time that can offer another perspective. Otherwise it will be just fraught with regionalism.

 

[Midas]

I don't think he is a bad person, he records a lot of decent facts and history. Especially around raxanweyn and the south.

They should let him speak but bring in more variety next time that can offer another perspective. Otherwise it will be just fraught with regionalism

Maybe I was a bit too harsh on him. His dictionary was filled with a lot of info and it's material on southern somalia is probably unqiue

 

[Riftvalley]

There is no real evidence ridda war migrants fled to Muqdisho the professor mentioned. Those inscriptions dotted around muqdisho are dated mainly from the 13th century onwards and they mention the people coming from Shiraz, Nusaybur and others refer to Hadramawt.

Even if islam was present at an earlier date, again there is little evidence to suggest people from The ridda wars or Ummayd.

 

[Khaemwaset]

These fucking cawaan subhumans, even at a foreign respected institution they bring tribalism