Somali marriage & STD - solutions?

[WaddaJeedi]

Asc brothers and sisters <3

Im new to this forum and got registered to find some advice regarding STD:s and marriage/relationships. We all know a story or a person who's been afflicted, but I want to know how does the community deal with it? Stigmatizing is not a solution, on the contrary it makes the issue more difficult. Somalies hide their sickness and spread it. Since we are muslims I took a quick look at some fatwas (from Islamqa.com). Islamically they are allowed to marry a person who either is having the same STD or a healthy person who is fully aware and willing to marry them. I have quoted the overall answer/ point of view, se ending.

Now, I know you somalies at the moment must have your inner fire alarm yelling. But lets not think we are above this issue because even if we are muslims we are part of the human world. This happens all the time, especially for us living in the west. And yes, muslims with STD:s have perhaps lived a life of sin. But who hasent? Allah is all forgiving and perhaps their sickness was their wake up call. Perhaps some are victims of a cheating spouse. It is not our job to judge them, its our job to stop the fitnah and create a safe way for these individuals (and ourselves) to find a spouse.

Personally, I dont have any. But my brother does have one. And we are tired of bearing this secret och allowing it to ruin his future. He used to live a destructive life and now he is practising. Besides my sibling, I have a auntie who got HIV because of her cheating husband. Again, its not our place to judge and stigmatize anybody!

There are in fact some dating sites for muslims with STD:s, which are mostly run by arabs/pakistanis/reverts and others groups who have a community thats well integrated in the western societies. Somalies are quite invisible on these sites. How would Somalispot feel about having this thread open for our distressed brothers and sisters? Or perhaps someone out there want to help me create a site for somalies with STD? This is 2017, lets accept and focus on solutions.

---------------------------------------------------- fatwa from islamQA -------------------------------------------------------

Healthy girl wants to marry man with herpes (https://islamqa.info/en/46517)

" With regard to the one who is sick, Muslim (2221) narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The owner of sick camels should not bring them to the healthy ones” – lest the disease be transmitted to the healthy ones."

Man with AIDS wants to marry (https://islamqa.info/en/69742)

" Married life is not only about intercourse; you could marry this woman if you both agree not to have intercourse, for a man’s need for a woman, and vice versa, is not just the matter of sexual needs. There are the matters of caring for one another, protection, spending, love and helping one another to obey Allaah. The love of one party for the other, so that the latter may inherit, may the reason for marriage, such as marriage to a minor who is not able for intercourse. Such a marriage is valid according to sharee’ah, even if no intercourse takes place. Based on this, there is no reason why you should not get married and agree not to have intercourse."

 

[Human]

It's not a common issue in the Somali community so there would be great stigma towards someone who does go through this.

In regards to marriage, as in you marry someone who has STD's, then that other person who is not infected could either get married to the person or get married to someone else.

But, even when you get married to the infected person, it would be difficult as both of the partners have sexual needs so it would cause great despair to the non-infected wife/or husband.

But, as different scenarios as to why the person ended up infected, there could possibly seek to see a counsellor to help figure out a solution. Plus, these different causes to why the person ended up infected, generally has different ends. So, it would depend on how/and why the person got infected.

 

[emptyheartsflow]

There are in fact some dating sites for muslims with STD:s, which are mostly run by arabs/pakistanis/reverts and others groups who have a community thats well integrated in the western societies. Somalies are quite invisible on these sites. How would Somalispot feel about having this thread open for our distressed brothers and sisters?

Sounds like something an ex-con would say.

 

[WaddaJeedi]

Thank you for the kind reply.

It's not a common issue in the Somali community so there would be great stigma towards someone who does go through this.

I completely disagree to this notion. It is a very common issue, its just a hidden one. This is how stigma works, not the other way around thinking that we stigmatize because its so uncommon.

What do you think of what's happening now in Somalia when foreigners have invaded our country? And we living in diaspora? Believing we are above this is just self-blinding and self-centered. And extremly unproductive.

But, even when you get married to the infected person, it would be difficult as both of the partners have sexual needs so it would cause great despair to the non-infected wife/or husband.

Yes, the best scenario in these cases are that both spouses share the same STD. This is also a general view of the islamic committees and of course the more sensible one. But islamically there are no restrictions to this if both parties are fully aware and understanding of the consequences. As pointed out before (see last quote) the sexual need is perhaps not a priority for these individuals. Perhaps they are seeking something more important than sex, and if they are both willing to live without it - why should we pity them or questions them? Humans have many needs, and who knows...perhaps they handle their sexual needs in some creative way. In the end the focus should be on how to bring these individuals out of a depressing life and let them find acceptance and warmth in each others company.

Plus, these different causes to why the person ended up infected, generally has different ends.

@Human : Why is it relevant to discuss the reasons a person got infected? It is not productive, rather is has a accusing tone to it. What do you mean it has different ends? The solutions is quite clear and that is to help these individuals find a muslim partner and live a good halal life. This is nothing you need to seek out a counsellor for and talk it away...

 

[WaddaJeedi]

Sounds like something an ex-con would say.

What do you mean ex-con?

 

[WaddaJeedi]

I really hope this doesnt turn into something ugly and ignorant. Trying really hard to reach out to my people.....

 

[Sarah136]

There are two matters we as Somali people hide when it comes to marriage, STD and mental health problems. I don't think you will have people come forward.

 

[Human]

Thank you for the kind reply.



I completely disagree to this notion. It is a very common issue, its just a hidden one. This is how stigma works, not the other way around thinking that we stigmatize because its so uncommon.

What do you think of what's happening now in Somalia when foreigners have invaded our country? And we living in diaspora? Believing we are above this is just self-blinding and self-centered. And extremly unproductive.



Yes, the best scenario in these cases are that both spouses share the same STD. This is also a general view of the islamic committees and of course the more sensible one. But islamically there are no restrictions to this if both parties are fully aware and understanding of the consequences. As pointed out before (see last quote) the sexual need is perhaps not a priority for these individuals. Perhaps they are seeking something more important than sex, and if they are both willing to live without it - why should we pity them or questions them? Humans have many needs, and who knows...perhaps they handle their sexual needs in some creative way. In the end the focus should be on how to bring these individuals out of a depressing life and let them find acceptance and warmth in each others company.



@Human : Why is it relevant to discuss the reasons a person got infected? It is not productive, rather is has a accusing tone to it. What do you mean it has different ends? The solutions is quite clear and that is to help these individuals find a muslim partner and live a good halal life. This is nothing you need to seek out a counsellor for and talk it away...

http://www.unaids.org/en/regionscountries/countries/somalia

Home > Countries > Somalia

MOGADISHU – HIV IN A TIME OF UNREST
Despite relative improvement of security in Mogadisu conditions exist in the city and throughout Somalia for a growing epidemic as trade increases, internally displaced persons move into cities in search of better livelihood and sex work sprouts at borders and ports.
Read more >

SOMALIS UNITING IN RESPONSE TO HIV AND AIDS
Significant progress is being made
Read more >

• HIV and AIDS estimates (2015)
• Number of people living with HIV
• 30 000 [21 000 - 41 000]
• Adults aged 15 to 49 prevalence rate
• 0.5% [0.3% - 0.7%]
• Adults aged 15 and over living with HIV
• 27 000 [18 000 - 37 000]
• Women aged 15 and over living with HIV
• 14 000 [9500 - 19 000]
• Children aged 0 to 14 living with HIV
• 3100 [2400 - 4000]
• Deaths due to AIDS
• 2000 [1500 - 2700]
• Orphans due to AIDS aged 0 to 17
• 25 000 [19 000 - 32 000]

SOMALIA CONTACTS



Berthilde GAHONGAYIRE
Telephone: +254-20-5124397 / +254-723938872
Email:GAHONGAYIREB@UNAIDS.ORG


UNGASS

• Country progress reports - 2015
  PDF
• National Commitments and Policies Instrument (NCPI) - 2014
  PDF

 

[WaddaJeedi]

@Human , what are you suggesting with all of these facts?

 

[TooMacaan]

I think like should seek like...if someone has an STD, they shouldn't actively seek out someone who doesn't have one. Rather, they should look for someone who can understand them and share their burden as well as experiences.
I really do sympathize with people going through this but I also want to mention...before I make further comment...about two things that disturbed me while reading:
1. The supposedly healthy woman actively looking for someone WITH an STD...I'm sorry but that is not believable. That would make me question if this person had shady motivations...perhaps to take advantage of someone who is vulnerable and looking for acceptance??
2. The part about how having STD makes it 'more suitable to marry a MINOR because there will be no intercourse involved'....NO. That was sickening to read and that should be heavily judged by the community and banned/illegal.

With that said, there is definitely a huge, huge stigma when it comes to these kinds of topics, especially if (as you mentioned) sinful lifestyles were the cause. On one hand, I believe the stigma in communities could be helpful in terms of preventive measures (i.e youth staying away from engaging in improper activities out of fear of social ostracization/judgement).

On the other hand, this ostracization could also be really negative in that it pushes away those who are remorseful and are making efforts to change/turn their life around. If someone is truly dedicated to reforming themselves and accepting God into their lives, I agree with you that it is our religious duty to encourage them to pursue that good path. Judging and alienating them will only make them feel like they are a hopeless cause (and in turn, it would lead them away from the righteous path >> towards sin...which is not what God wants).
Overall, good luck with your endeavors.

P.s. Please don't do stuff like that crap on twitter where people say "I have _______ STD and I'm proud of it!"

 

[Human]

@Human , what are you suggesting with all of these facts?

It is not as big of an issue as you make it seem to be. I know it must be tackled but you have to acknowledge there are other issues that are bigger than this.

I support your notion regardless.

 

[emptyheartsflow]

What do you mean ex-con?

You sound like you're trying to help ex-con reverts infiltrate another gullible Islamic community. I'm not religious but why should a man or woman (who is clean themselves) accept someone with STDs?

That's like hiring for a job and ignoring every black mark in the candidates history.

 

[WaddaJeedi]

I also want to mention...before I make further comment...about two things that disturbed me while reading:
1. The supposedly healthy woman looking for someone WITH an STD...I'm sorry but that is not believable. That would make me question if this person had shady motivations...perhaps to take advantage of someone who is vulnerable and looking for acceptance?
2. The part about how having STD makes it 'more suitable to marry a MINOR because there will be no intercourse involved'....NO. That was sickening to read and that should be heavily judged by the community and banned/illegal.

Thank you for the kind reply.

1. Its irrelevant of the story about the healthy girl is true or not. The sheikh did not contemplate over if its real or not, he just objectively just answered the question. This allowed knowledge to reach us, so lets focus on the positive outcome from this story and avoid speculations.

2. I believe you are interpenetrating the quote wrong. He was discussing the different cases of marriage without intercourse being in focus. Usually marriage is valid after nikaah+ sex. But since a minor cannot have sex, but still there might be a reason for marriage...bla bla bla - in this case marriage is valid. Hence marriage with STD people who dont have sex is also valid. I hope this cleared the missunderstanding.
(PS. please lets not debate about marriage to minors.)

 

[waraabe]

Sounds like the op has an STD and wants us to accept them.

 

[WaddaJeedi]

You sound like you're trying to help ex-con reverts infiltrate another gullible Islamic community. I'm not religious but why should a man or woman (who is clean themselves) accept someone with STDs?

That's like hiring for a job and ignoring every black mark in the candidates history.

OKAY, to all my brothers and sisters. Lets just stop discussing the healthy person marrying someone with STD. Just STOP. It was just a fact, meaning objectively addressing a possible situation. I am not saying its a good idea, I'm just saying its a fact. SubhanaAllah

Ive been trying to talk about creating a productive platform for those who have STD already.

 

[WaddaJeedi]

Sounds like the op has an STD and wants us to accept them.

The world would be so must better without your kind of mentality. Its irrelevant if I have it or not, are you trying to shame me or character assassinate me?
And yes - I want us to accept people, regardless of their differences, and behave good towards them. Nobody is asking you to f*ck anybody with STD....sigh

 

[WaddaJeedi]

It is not as big of an issue as you make it seem to be. I know it must be tackled but you have to acknowledge there are other issues that are bigger than this.

I support your notion regardless.

Okay, I understand you now. Thank you.

Well frankly, that is not for you to decide. The fact is people are struggling with this, also the statistics only refer to HIV/AIDS. Apparently it is a social issue the minute if affects the public, any contagious decease is a community issue. Lets multiply those numbers with 10, since we are somalies living in secrecy and it didn't count those living in diaspora.

 

[I've spoken]

You're not Somali. what Somali person doesn't even know how to spell somali, you spelled it "somalies". and no its not common at all in the somali community because we're Muslims and sexual intercourse is forbidden. just because you have it doesn't mean we all do.

 

[TooMacaan]

Thank you for the kind reply.

1. Its irrelevant of the story about the healthy girl is true or not. The sheikh did not contemplate over if its real or not, he just objectively just answered the question. This allowed knowledge to reach us, so lets focus on the positive outcome from this story and avoid speculations.

2. I believe you are interpenetrating the quote wrong. He was discussing the different cases of marriage without intercourse being in focus. Usually marriage is valid after nikaah+ sex. But since a minor cannot have sex, but still there might be a reason for marriage...bla bla bla - in this case marriage is valid. Hence marriage with STD people who dont have sex is also valid. I hope this cleared the missunderstanding.
(PS. please lets not debate about marriage to minors.)

No problem, same to you.
1. I understand that the Sheikh may be just answering the question(and I respect that) but from our perspective, we should be imploring further.
I think it is healthy to make such speculations--both for the safety of the individual with STDs and also to prevent the fetishization of those without STDs. Should you continue on to start a site for people to connect and have actual relationships, these are real life issues that are critical to address at some point.

2. Yes, I believe I misinterpreted that one. Sorry about that, and thanks for the correction. And ofc, there is no debate.

 

[waraabe]

The world would be so must better without your kind of mentality. Its irrelevant if I have it or not, are you trying to shame me or character assassinate me?
And yes - I want us to accept people, regardless of their differences, and behave good towards them. Nobody is asking you to f*ck anybody with STD....sigh

people who get stds around, stop trying to normalise it