Somali script needs to be either updated (Latin script) or completely changed (indigenous)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Azerbaijan an example of a group of people who've had their languages written in multiple script within the last century.


Until the 1920's they used the revised Arabic script.


"

Azerbaijani is a member of the Western Oghuz branch of the Turkic language family spoken by about 32.2 million people mainly in Azerbaijan, Iran, Georgia, Russia and Turkey, and also in Iraq, Syria and Turkmenistan.


There are two main varieties of the language: North Azerbaijani and South Azerbaijani, which are sometimes classified as separate languages, although there is a fair degree of mutually intelligibility between them.


North Azerbaijani is spoken in Azerbaijan, where is the official language, and also southern Dagestan, in the southern Caucasus Mountains and in parts of Central Asia. There are around 7.3 million native speakers, and another 8 million second language speakers.


South Azerbaijani has about 16.9 million speakers mainly in the northwest of Iran, where it is known as تورکی (Türki), and also in parts of Iraq and Turkey, and in Afghanistan and Syria.


Azerbaijani is closely related to Turkish, Qashqai, Turkmen and Crimean Tatar, and there is a degree of mutually intelligibility between Azerbaijani and Turkish.


The Arabic script was introduced to the Azerbaijan region in the 7th century and continued to be used to write Azerbaijani until the 1920s. Three different versions of the Arabic script were used during this period: the 28-letter Arabic script, the 32-letter Perso-Arabic script and the 33-letter Turkic Arabic script. None of these was ideal for writing Azerbaijani and various reforms were proposed, particularly during the late 19th and early 20th centuries.


In Iran the Azerbaijani language has always been written with a version of the Arabic script and is know as Azeri Turk."



Arabic script


azeri_arabic.gif






Latin alphabet for Azerbaijani (1922 version)

In 1922 the Latin alphabet, known as Yanalif (new alphabet), was adopted to write Azerbaijani in Soviet northern Azerbaijan. This was essentially an attempt by the Soviet authorities to reduce the influence of Islam in the Turkic republics, all of which used the Arabic script before 1922.


azeri_latin1922.gif





Cyrillic alphabet for Azerbaijani (Азәрбајҹан әлифбасы)

In 1939 the Cyrillic alphabet was imposed by Stalin, who wanted to discourage contact between the Turkic republics and Turkey, and worried about the development of alliances which might undermine the authority of the Soviet Union.



azeri_cyrillic.gif




A simplified version of the Cyrillic alphabet was introduced in 1958.


azeri_cyrillic1958.gif











https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tifinagh - Amazigh script

Tifinagh
nm_tifinagh.gif

The Tifinagh alphabet is thought to have derived from the ancient Berber script. The name Tifinagh possibly means 'the Phoenician letters', or possibly from the phrase tifin negh, which means 'our invention'.

Since September 2003, the Tifinagh alphabet children in Moroccan primary schools have been taught to write Tamazight with the Tifinagh alphabet. It is also used by the Tuareg, particularly the women, for private notes, love letters and in decoration. For public purposes, the Arabic alphabet is normally used.

Notable features
  • Type of writing system: alphabet.
  • Direction of writing: left to right in horizontal lines.
Used to write
Tamazight (Tamaziɣt / ⵜⴰⵎⴰⵣⵉⵖⵜ), a family of Berber languages spoken by between 16 and 30 million people mainly in Morocco and Algeria, and also in Libya, Mali, Niger, Tunisia, Burkina Faso, Egypt and Mauritania.

tifinagh.gif


http://www.omniglot.com/writing/tifinagh.htm




Agadez (AWN) | Tifinagh, the traditional writing system of the Amazigh people of North Africa continues to expand, more and more as a means of preserving Amazigh—Tuareg identity, Some two-thirds of the estimated 1.5 million Tuareg living in Niger use their traditional language, Tamacheq, on a daily basis.

It took a long time but, it’s official, now drive through parts of Agadez streets, the largest city in central Niger, and you may be surprised that you’ll find streets name signs in Tamazight Language written in Tifinagh alphabet.

It’s been a long time coming, but it seems increasing demand for implementation of Tamazight’s official status in recent past years by the Tuareg people of Niger has finally kicked some bigwigs into action.

This project aimed to revitalize Tifinagh and changes will also include cities/towns names, and tourism destinations, including historic and natural sites across Agadez and entire Niger in future.

Tifinagh-e1481732869270.jpg





http://www.amazighworldnews.com/agadez-adds-tifinagh-to-street-signs/






Pretty neat script. It's latin counterpart
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berber_Latin_alphabet

Symbol of solidarity and nationalism.
 
We've been using the Arabic script for centuries but it was never standardised until 1956 by Galal AUN (but obviously didn't include the Maay language).

Somali_Stone.jpg
-14th century Stone tablet


w0nh5i.jpg






Shiekh Al Barawe AUN used the arabic script to write in Maay

29o1gti.jpg


B1y8Rk8IMAEoAxa.jpg:large



Some letters written by Somalis across the HOA/Middle east (family letters)

35iwuj7.jpg


dow9qw.jpg




1961 report's views on the Arabic script
http://dspace-roma3.caspur.it/bitstream/2307/2620/1/Linguistic Report 1961.pdf - link to the report

upload_2016-12-28_22-29-53-png.10866


upload_2016-12-28_22-31-47-png.10867


upload_2016-12-28_22-32-48-png.10869


upload_2016-12-28_22-33-39-png.10870


Andrzejewski report http://dspace-roma3.caspur.it/bitstream/2307/1517/1/Somalia. the writing of Somali_lavorato.pdf
 
If we were to update the Latin Script.. we should get rid of the Double vowels (AA, OO, EE, II & UU) and replace them with special characters such as Öö, Ää, Ï ï, Üü and Ëë.



Missing remaining Arabic letters; ض ص ذ ظ ز لا ث for example MZ (Ogaden) instead of MS, also we have Islamic names such as Zubayr/Zakariya (Zubayr > Subeir), ZAMZAM water (Hajj).


IIRC, Madhiban also were mentioned in containing a special arabic letter not in our script. ذ part of their dialect or language, like I said IIRC.


Unused Z = ز
Unused V = ث



Unused P = P letter MAAY
Y' = Maay Semi Vowel should be Ý ý

Leaves out these 5 letters with Latin equivalent letters/characters ض ص ذ ظ لا
















The Maay alphabet has five primary vowels: a, e, i, o, u, and one semi-vowel ( Y ) and twenty four consonants.

(1.00) Consonants:

B P T J JH D TH R S SH DH G GH F Q K L M N NG W H Y Y’

(1.01) Vowels:

Maay has two major categories of vowels: short and long according to the position they occupy in the word in which they are located. Long vowels are spelled as double vowels. They are pronounced exactly like short vowels except that they are longer:

A E I O U

AA EE II OO UU

(1.02) Semi-vowel Y

Maay has one semi-vowel “Y” which has a distinct pronunciation that is different from the vowel sound produced by the vowel i and is used to represent the “ieh” sound occurring ( felt ) most often at the end of Maay words. Example:

teesy (fly) moory (animal enclosure) lamy (two) sedy (three)

Since the letter ‘Y’ is used both a consonant and vowel, because of its double role the following Shorongshoor rule has been put together to clarify when one can use ‘Y’ as a consonant and as a vowel:

(1.03) Shorongshoor

(b) If the letter ‘y’ is preceded by a vowel it is used as consonant and is pronounced as it is ‘y’.

Example: Bay (name of a region) Biyooley ( name of a city) siyeed (eight)

(P) On the other hand, if the letter ‘y’ is preceded by a consonant, then the letter ‘y’ is used like vowel and is pronounced as ‘ieh’.

Example: toory = knife misgy = sorghum Jyny = heaven shyny = bee

(1.04) Glottal stop (Shalreepy) (‘)

A vowel followed by different vowel or the same vowel which is not a long vowel is separated from the other vowel by an apostrophe(‘) ‘shalreepy’.

Example: ta’ady = betray ba’iid = deer su’aal = question

(1.05) Doubling

In the Maay alphabet, only letters ‘r’ and ‘l’ are doubled within some words.

Example :

RR arry (soil) irry (grey hair) marry ( the whole quran)

LL hillimy (dream) billaawy (diger) duullaang ( to invade)



(1.06) Pronunciation Guide

P

The letter ‘p’ is used when the sound of ‘b’is not stressed. Its sound is produced by the lips, it is some what similar to the letter ‘p’ in the English alphabet.

apaal = gratitude heped = chest Hapiipy = name of a female lipee = lion

Jh:

It is guttural and it has similar sound as ‘J’. It represent a special Maay sound structure,

jhab = fracture jheer = shyness jhiring =beard jhaapy = fire wood

Th:

It is pronounced as the article ‘the’ in the English language, it is used when the sound of ‘d’ is not stressed.

mathal = appointment etheb = politeness mathy = head mithow = black

Gh:

It sounds like the ” ghain ” غ of the Arabic alphabet, and it is used when the sound of ‘g’ is not stressed.

maghy = name aghaar = green meghyng = refuge lughy = legs

Ng:

It represent a special Maay sound structure, it is similar to the end sound of many English words (eg. morning, caring, helping)

angkaar = curse oong = thirst ming = house lang = man sang = nose

Y’

It represent a special Maay sound structure, the sound that the letter ‘y’’ represents is also found in the words signore, and agnello of the Italian language.

y’aay’uur = cat y’isaang = the youngest maay’y = ocean



(1.07) Pronunciation difference of (b, d, g) and (p, th, gh)

The letters b, d, and g are stressed when they are part of a word, but they are not doubled within a word. When they are not stressed, the letter p, th, gh and are used respectively in their place. Note how the following words are pronounced.

B P

barbaar = youth hupung = joint (organ) dabaal = fool heped = chest hilib = meet apaar = drought

D Th

derdaar = advice mathy = head sedy = three mathal = appointment bad = ocean naathy = anouncement

G Gh

legding = wrestling maghy = name/ noun shalgo = seperation saghaal = nine dheg = ear dheghaaly = deaf


https://waajid.wordpress.com/2008/10/23/maay-alphabet-english-version/




Tones can be tricky...

"Somali has tonic accent with one high-tone mora per word.

The tone system distinguishes grammatical rather than lexical differences. Differences include singular and plural, masculine and feminine. One example is ínan ('boy') and inán ('girl'). This reflects a pattern that marks grammatical gender, such as daméer ('male donkey') and dameér ('female donkey').

The question of tonality in Somali has been debated for decades. The modern consensus is as follows.

In Somali, the tone-bearing unit is the mora rather than the vowel of the syllable. A long vowel or a diphthong consists of two morae and can bear two tones. Each mora is defined as being of high or low tone. Only one high tone occurs per word and this must be on the final or penultimate mora. Particles do not have a high tone. (These include prepositions, clitic pronouns for subject and object, impersonal subject pronouns and focus markers.) There are therefore three possible "accentual patterns" in word roots.

Phonetically there are three tones on long vowels: high, low and falling:

  1. On a long vowel or diphthong, a sequence of high-low is realised as a falling tone.
  2. On a long vowel or diphthong, a sequence of low-high is realised as high-high. (Occasionally, it is a rising tone.)
This use of tone may be characterized as pitch accent. It is similar to that in Oromo.

Stress is connected with tone. The high tone has strong stress; the falling tone has less stress and the low tone has no stress.

When needed, the conventions for marking tone on written Somali are as follows:

@government

ínan 'boy inán girl gender
díbi ox dibí oxen number

Nirig (baby he camel) iyo Nirig ( baby she camel)








Updated Latin Script.


Vowels; A, E, I, O, U, Öö, Ää, Ï ï, Üü and Ëë
Semi Vowel; Ý ý (MAAY)
Tones ;

Consonants;
(Glottal stop) B, P(Maay), T, J, X (Maay does not have this letter), KH (Maay does not have this letter), JH (Maay exclusive) D , TH (Maay exclusive) , R , S , SH , DH , C ( Maay does not have this letter) , G , GH (Maay exclusive similar to غ) ,F , Q , K , L M , N , NG (Maay exlusive), W, H & Y = Standard Somali + MAAY

Remaining Arabic letters if possible;
Unused Z = ز
Unused V = ث

ض ص ذ ظ لا ??????



If we simply stick with the new double vowels Öö, Ää, Ï ï, Üü and Ëë and implement the Maay Semi Vowel Ý ý solely, the costs would be obviously new keyboards.



Or we could simply use our indigenous scripts. @Prince of Hobyo screenshotted the link I sent him and made a thread about this a couple of months ago. http://www.somalispot.com/threads/exstensive-report-from-1961-of-over-20-somali-scripts.17294/

Here is the report; http://dspace-roma3.caspur.it/bitstream/2307/2620/1/Linguistic Report 1961.pdf

18 Writing scripts, some you may have never heard about other than the popular Borama/Cismaanya/Kaddare


Requirement;
upload_2016-12-28_22-9-2-png.10857
upload_2016-12-28_22-12-46-png.10858
 
upload_2016-12-28_22-16-39-png.10859

upload_2016-12-28_22-24-54-png.10861


upload_2016-12-28_22-25-19-png.10862


upload_2016-12-28_22-26-42-png.10864


upload_2016-12-28_22-27-9-png.10865


Verdict.



upload_2016-12-28_22-39-16-png.10872

upload_2016-12-28_22-39-48-png.10873
- Latin and Modified kaddare were held to be the best.




http://dspace-roma3.caspur.it/bitstream/2307/1517/1/Somalia. the writing of Somali_lavorato.pdf - recommends we mix both the Osmanya + Kaddare script.

Kaddare lacks numerals, separate letters for long vowels/glottal stop and obliously the remaining arabic letters/maay + tones.


Osmanya has numerals, has a glottal stop character, has unicode but wasn't the best indigenous script as seen from the report. Also lacks Maay letters/Arabic letters/Tones
 
http://dspace-roma3.caspur.it/bitstream/2307/1517/1/Somalia. the writing of Somali_lavorato.pdf - recommends we mix both the Osmanya + Kaddare script.

Kaddare lacks numerals, lacks unicode,separate letters for long vowels/glottal stop and obviously the remaining arabic letters/maay + tones. Most elegant script and seen to the best orthography (1961)


Osmanya has numerals, has a glottal stop character, has unicode but wasn't the best indigenous script as seen from the report. Also lacks Maay letters/remaining Arabic letters/Tones


somali.gif


somali_num.gif



Kaddare
udhr_kaddare.gif


Kaddare_Alphabet_Chart.jpg




WritingSystemsOfTheWorld.png


Keep the discussion civil.
 
Last edited:
Updating the Latin script is the better choice, it will make it easier for Somalis to learn a different language and conduct trade with the world.
 
Information overload :ahh:

The changes that should be made should be in regards to the vowel symbols as well as the script taking into consideration all variations of Somali,
 
How can you argue that Maay is not a separate language when Maay and Mahaa don't even have the same sound structure? Even the grammar is different.

"Vowels; A, E, I, O, U, Öö, Ää, Ï ï, Üü and Ëë
Semi Vowel; Ý ý (MAAY)
Tones ;

Consonants;
(Glottal stop) B, P(Maay), T, J, X (Maay does not have this letter), KH (Maay does not have this letter), JH (Maay exclusive) D , TH (Maay exclusive) , R , S , SH , DH , C ( Maay does not have this letter) , G , GH (Maay exclusive similar to غ) ,F , Q , K , L M , N , NG (Maay exlusive), W, H & Y = Standard Somali + MAAY"
 
@Grant both languages would be written in the same orthography. I don't see what is so confusing, Maay would obviously not be using all of the letters, vice versa with standard Somali... just like how the current Somali Latin alphabet omits the use of the following letters Z, P and V.

@Garad Kaddare was seen to be the best in writing all of the dialects.

@Guysensei Somali laziness is what is preventing us from using an indigenous script. :francis:
 
@Grant both languages would be written in the same orthography. I don't see what is so confusing, Maay would obviously not be using all of the letters, vice versa with standard Somali... just like how the current Somali Latin alphabet omits the use of the following letters Z, P and V.

@Garad Kaddare was seen to be the best in writing all of the dialects.

@Guysensei Somali laziness is what is preventing us from using an indigenous script. :francis:
Switching to kaddare script will be a massive effort, the current script makes it extremely easy for diaspora to quickly learn and write Somali on their own. switching to kaddare means changing everything from our keyboards to our calendars re educating everyone including, scholars teachers and business, and it would be an obstacle for trade and the diaspora, while it might be better the process of implementing it are not worth the rewards
 
Last edited:
Switching to kaddare script will be a massive effort, the current script makes it extremely easy for diaspora to quickly learn and write Somali on their own. switching to kaddare means changing everything from our keyboards to our calendars re educating everyone including, scholars teachers and business, and be an obstacle for trade and the diaspora, while it might be better the process of implementing it are not worth the rewards.

It shouldn't be instantaneous, the process should go slowly and cautiously to avoid chaos.
 
@Grant both languages would be written in the same orthography. I don't see what is so confusing, Maay would obviously not be using all of the letters, vice versa with standard Somali... just like how the current Somali Latin alphabet omits the use of the following letters Z, P and V.

SF,

English and French are both written with the same orthography, but no one doubts they are separate languages. Confusion is not the issue.
 
All these systems have issues with them.

Latin - not standardized

Osmanya / borama / kaddere - all qabiil related

Some of the constructed ones are too difficult to write.

I suggest that everyone should look at the pictures of inscriptions in Somaliland and take that as inspiration (not cave paintings, inscriptions) and if everyone posts that we can find a common script, which could, at least, be adapted onto sspot
 

Apollo

VIP
No, just no. The current system works and most digital devices will not have these scripts.

Wrong priorities.
 
No, just no. The current system works and most digital devices will not have these scripts.

Wrong priorities.

If a new script is popular and successful, we can just contact Unicode or one of those companies to have it available on electronics

These scripts have so many flaws, besides it doesn't sit well with somali nationalism
 

Apollo

VIP
If a new script is popular and successful, we can just contact Unicode or one of those companies to have it available on electronics

These scripts have so many flaws, besides it doesn't sit well with somali nationalim

Eh, Somali has the simplest orthographic system of the languages I know. Let's not make it more complicated.

Arabic with its lack of vowels is pure hell.
 
Eh, Somali has the simplest orthographic system of the languages I know. Let's not make it more complicated.

Arabic with its lack of vowels is pure hell.

Because arabic is an abjad, that's why it's unique. Somalis, should stick with alphabet, 10 vowels is way too much for around 22 constants to lets say, make a sylabarry like the japanese and habesha. It doesn't work well as an abugida like most south asian scripts, that's why the latin alphabet has been popular.

We should make our own alphabet, there is much to gain from it
 
@horumar @Amun
Does a long vowel have to be indicated?

The long vowels are just the first 5 vowels but when spoken, has more emphasis placed on it

They are:

AA EE II OO UU

In addition to the first five:

A E I O U

By indicated, i think you mean in the script? Well the osmanya script doesn't indicate all the double vowels, and the ones it does, such as UU is also the constant letter W

When writing in somali, the double vowels are used, because in some context they mean a whole word

Such as: Farmaajo ee 55 jir ah

Which means, Farmaajo who is 55 years old
(hopefully i got that right lol)

Also i have a question about the fidel: Lets say a phrase such as Abuntasfayzo(heard it in the unhcr dangerous crossings music vid) Would you write it like this ኣቡንታስፋይዞ

what will the 'n' be? because it doesn't have a vowel after when spoken, so how should it be written?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Trending

Top