Somali slaves: Which Arab nation 'sold' somalia, to Italy, in the 19th century?

[Caraweelo X]

Maids aren't slaves. By your definition I've had Habesha slaves

I'm doing this so when anybody Googles Somali history and stumble upon this forum, they won't be fooled by her revisionism.

Maids aren't slaves until you're giving them cheap funds and trapping them in your country and calling them abeed. I bet you never even heard of Siddis, who are of Somali descent. Somalis are still called abeed today by Arabs in Saudi.

 

[Caraweelo X]

The Horn was never referred to as Zanj. It's a popular misconception but not true.


View attachment 12108
(Bantus/Nilotics who may have been mixed with Southern Cushites includes the Masaai who live in previous bilad al Zanj)
Description of the Zanj from al Muqqadasi and Ibn Battuta.



From Ibn Battuta's visit to Kilwa (A Zanj colony)

Funnily enough Ibn Battuta also visited Mogadishu at the same time. He didn't describe it as a Zanj or Swahili city.
View attachment 12107


Even the earliest description of Somalis stated us as a separate group on different from the Zanj.
View attachment 12109 Where the Arab got their slaves from "the Zanj, a Bantu speaking people's from East Africa" again not Somalis. When Ibn Battuta visited Somali Sultan Abu Bakr he noted that Abu Bakr spoke both Arabic and Mogadishan, which is Somali.

Funny how Abyssinians, Sudanese, Nubians, Bantus and other Blacks beyond the Sahara were mentioned as the source of slaves for the Arabs but not Somalis

The word Somali was not even written until the 15th century...Somalis were called Habesha or Berbers. That's why the Prophet (sawa) or any hadiths ever say "Somali" yet Ethiopians are always referenced. Sometimes Somalis were included in the term Habesha because no one outside knew of the term "Somali" like that.

The term Zanj has more than one meaning btw and clearly you didn't read what I wrote because I put books where it talked about Somalia specifically. No one posted anything before the 1800s, the Arab Slave Trade started in the 7th century lol It's cute that you guys actually think Arabs cared about Somalis back then tho.

 

[Madara x]

The Europeans all share similar cultures, history, and are geographically close.

Culturally and historically, they both have inherited Ancient Greek / Roman culture, share the same Christian religion, and contemporary periods of progression like the Renaissance, Enlightenment, scientific method and development of industrialization. Although there has been constant war between them, they’ve always been closely knitted as neighbours, share the same civilizational structures, monarchs, dynasties and there has always been a boundary for Europe not just artificially (excluding Turks etc), but also grounded in reality.

Africans… well, I don’t how to say this without completely bursting your imaginary bubble.

There is no bubble on my ends.

I agree with some of the things you said and i disagree with others

Thanks for the contribution.

Long live the dervish dream

 

[DuctTape]

Maids aren't slaves until you're giving them cheap funds and trapping them in your country and calling them abeed. I bet you never even heard of Siddis, who are of Somali descent. Somalis are still called abeed today by Arabs in Saudi.

Your bullshit is starting to irritate me now. Siddis were only called "Habshi" (which isn't even the word for Somali) because that became the word for any black african. You can't be telling me these people:

Are descended from Somalis. I'm not using any sources because it's fact: the Siddis are descended from Southeast African Bantu slaves. Maybe some were abysinnian (i.e the 'negro' populations of Ethiopia that were shipped off as slaves) but these people are not Somali. You're reaching at this point.

 

[Caraweelo X]

Your bullshit is starting to irritate me now. Siddis were only called "Habshi" (which isn't even the word for Somali) because that became the word for any black african. You can't be telling me these people:
View attachment 12130
Are descended from Somalis. I'm not using any sources because it's fact: the Siddis are descended from Southeast African Bantu slaves. Maybe some were abysinnian (i.e the 'negro' populations of Ethiopia that were shipped off as slaves) but these people are not Somali. You're reaching at this point.

That's not what all Siddis look like, stop generalizing. And they say they are of Somali descent. Again, you really didn't read what I posted...my references were clear. Goodnight.

 

[Madara x]

That's not what all Siddis look like, stop generalizing. And they say they are of Somali descent. Again, you really didn't read what I posted...my references were clear. Goodnight.

Long live the dervish dream

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

I bet you never even heard of Siddis, who are of Somali descent.

Wallahi you have to be trolling now

 

[DuctTape]

That's not what all Siddis look like, stop generalizing. And they say they are of Somali descent. Again, you really didn't read what I posted...my references were clear. Goodnight.

The DNA contradicts what you're saying.

A Y-chromosome study by Shah et al. (2011) tested Siddi individuals in India for paternal lineages. The authors observed the E1b1a haplogroup, which is frequent among Bantu peoples, in about 42% and 34% of Siddis from Karnataka and Gujarat, respectively. Around 14% of Siddis from Karnataka and 35% of Siddis from Gujarat also belonged to the Sub-Saharan B haplogroup. The remaining 30% of Siddi had Indian or Near Eastern-associated clades, including haplogroups H, L, J and P.[1]

Thangaraj (2009) observed similar, mainly Bantu-linked paternal affinities amongst the Siddi.[40]
Not once is E1b1b, or the M haplogroup mentioned, which are markers of Somali ancestry. These people are not Somali. Their maternal haplogroups are also Southeast African.

Some Siddi consider themselves Somali, but their appearance is completely different to that of Somalis and their DNA is Bantu. How people identify ethnically doesn't always reflect reality. Just like how some Somali qabils claim to have Arab forefathers when we don't have any (recent) Middle Eastern admixture. Somalis were not shipped to India as slaves. It is fact that these people have no Somali ancestry.

 

[DuctTape]

Wallahi you have to be trolling now

She's taking the piss
She's persistent though, I'll give her that. Multiple people have been arguing a case against her for a while now and she's not conceding any points
You tough @Caraweelo X

 

[ሕጊ።።]

Your bullshit is starting to irritate me now. Siddis were only called "Habshi" (which isn't even the word for Somali) because that became the word for any black african. You can't be telling me these people:
View attachment 12130
Are descended from Somalis. I'm not using any sources because it's fact: the Siddis are descended from Southeast African Bantu slaves. Maybe some were abysinnian (i.e the 'negro' populations of Ethiopia that were shipped off as slaves) but these people are not Somali. You're reaching at this point.

You're right surely, even their language classification doesn't fit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidi_language

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

African Americans claim Ancient Egypt to show they built a civilization.


This claims slaves around the world from different continents to show shes Black, and is still rejected by them.

The more slaves she finds, the more happier she gets .

How is she claiming these people as Somali?

 

[DuctTape]

You're right surely, even their language classification doesn't fit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidi_language

It's Niger-Congo
She is unequivocally wrong, this sets it in stone. These people don't even have any linguistic connection to us! If they descended from Somalis, a population that kept their native tongue even after hundreds of years of being in the Arab sphere of cultural influence, and European colonialism, the language classification would have surely said "Afro-asiatic"
Gerrara here @Caraweelo X

 

[Caraweelo X]

The DNA contradicts what you're saying.

A Y-chromosome study by Shah et al. (2011) tested Siddi individuals in India for paternal lineages. The authors observed the E1b1a haplogroup, which is frequent among Bantu peoples, in about 42% and 34% of Siddis from Karnataka and Gujarat, respectively. Around 14% of Siddis from Karnataka and 35% of Siddis from Gujarat also belonged to the Sub-Saharan B haplogroup. The remaining 30% of Siddi had Indian or Near Eastern-associated clades, including haplogroups H, L, J and P.[1]

Thangaraj (2009) observed similar, mainly Bantu-linked paternal affinities amongst the Siddi.[40]
Not once is E1b1b, or the M haplogroup mentioned, which are markers of Somali ancestry. These people are not Somali. Their maternal haplogroups are also Southeast African.

View attachment 12131
Some Siddi consider themselves Somali, but their appearance is completely different to that of Somalis and their DNA is Bantu. How people identify ethnically doesn't always reflect reality. Just like how some Somali qabils claim to have Arab forefathers when we don't have any (recent) Middle Eastern admixture. Somalis were not shipped to India as slaves. It is fact that these people have no Somali ancestry.

Somalia is not a monolith, neither are what siddis look like

 

[DuctTape]

Somalia is not a monolith, neither are what siddis look like

View attachment 12132 View attachment 12133 View attachment 12134 View attachment 12135 View attachment 12136 View attachment 12137 View attachment 12139 View attachment 12140 View attachment 12141 View attachment 12142

Are you a moron? DNA speaks volumes - these people are not genetically Somali. Way to cherrypick your arguments. There is no tangible relation you've shown other than a name (which carries no weight, these people don't even have "Habashi" DNA).

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

the brought a picture of sheikh shariif to show siddas are somalis

im dead wallahi



@Adheer Warsame take this L bro, she's a mooryaan I think.

 

[ሕጊ።።]

Are you a moron? DNA speaks volumes - these people are not genetically Somali. Way to cherrypick your arguments. There is no tangible relation you've shown other than a name (which carries no weight, these people don't even have "Habashi" DNA).

Their history is so confusing!
Their language classification says Bantu, their name basically says they are Habesha, their history says they are most likely Nilotes from NW Ethiopia, and other parts says from the Swahili Coast

These people should just be known as Indians

 

[Bahal]

Maids aren't slaves until you're giving them cheap funds and trapping them in your country and calling them abeed. I bet you never even heard of Siddis, who are of Somali descent. Somalis are still called abeed today by Arabs in Saudi.

Siddis are Zanj slaves xooloyahay



They were most likely shipped through Somali ports to Arabia and from there to India.

They're also known as habshi because some of em were shipped from Ethiopia. There have been legit genetic studies done that prove their obvious southeast Bantu origins.

Do us a favor and shut the f*ck up.

Edit-Somali is also apparently a name they use for any Africans.

 

[DuctTape]

Their history is so confusing!
Their language classification says Bantu, their name basically says they are Habesha, their history says they are most likely Nilotes from NW Ethiopia, and other parts says from the Swahili Coast

These people should just be known as Indians

They seem like a confused people themselves in all honesty. Some even straight up call themselves "Somali", and that source I pulled up earlier says that Somalis mistakenly think that they're Somali (no idea how) and "keep in touch" with them

 

[Bahal]

Wait you guys already posted that



Should've read the thread

 

[ሕጊ።።]

They seem like a confused people themselves in all honesty. Some even straight up call themselves "Somali", and that source I pulled up earlier says that Somalis mistakenly think that they're Somali (no idea how) and "keep in touch" with them

It's confusing!

Siddi also means someone bad-mannered and rude in my language lol, enough L's already