Somali with E-M293

[Apollo]

Lol I thought sanbuur was a guy not a clan. Never heard of them...what part of Somalia are they from?

I think they are a small Isaaq subclan.

 

[egaal]

Don't think so. They mess around with the percentages with updates, but the haplogroup assignments are pretty much set in stone and rarely faulty.

There’s a possibility it could be from an Arabian trader but here’s the problem. Most of the Arab people who had E-M293 are from cities where there was slavery going on like Iraq Al-Basra and UAE and Saudi Arabia. So the Arabs with E-M293 are most likely the type that look mulatto or octoroon. And in UAE and KSA all the immigrants prior to 1932 that they call “left over Hajis” we’re given citizenship. There are people in Mecca that came for Hajj and just stayed there also slave descendants and they were given citizenship status.

 

[Apollo]

There’s a possibility it could be from an Arabian trader but here’s the problem. Most of the Arab people who had E-M293 are from cities where there was slavery going on like Iraq Al-Basra and UAE and Saudi Arabia. So the Arabs with E-M293 are most likely the type that look mulatto or octoroon. And in UAE and KSA all the immigrants prior to 1932 that they call “left over Hajis” we’re given citizenship. There are people in Mecca that came for Hajj and just stayed there also slave descendants and they were given citizenship status.

There is a Libyan man who did the full Y-Chromosome test and got the recent Somali lineage (from as recent as only 500 years ago). He most likely descends from an Ottoman era Somali trader. Weirdly he looks even more Caucasian than most Libyans. His picture and that of his son (open spoiler).

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So the phenotypic origins of a paternal lineage can be 'erased' in as little as 300 years.

 

[egaal]

I think they are a small Isaaq subclan.

“E-M293 gets its fame as the diagnostic South Erythrean paternal lineage, and it was well known for this even before the PN/ELM 2019 paper. It is an E-M35 lineage, however it is E-Z827, a brotherly lineage to E-L539 (E-M78's predecessor). The last common ancestor for all E-M293 thus far lived around 4,500 years ago, just around the time (+/- a few hundred years) South Erythrean broke off from East Erythrean likely somewhere in the Horn, and specifically in the Somali lowlands where 5,000 year old Erythrean pastoralist cattle herding cultures existed, and who even depicted in ancient cave paintings cattle of the type ancestral to Tutsi and Great Lakes cattle.” I checked many forums and articles and they all say it’s South Erythrean the Erythean Sea only has two basin countries Somalia and Yemen. Yemen is North Erythrean. So it originated in Somalia. E-V32 originated in Upper Egypt(South Egypt) or Northern Sudan. Is it possible that some E-V32 stayed behind in Southern Egypt or North Sudan? Because if there are people with E-V32 in Egypt or Sudan then there’s a chance that my ancestors stayed behind while their people left to Tanzania or Kenya etc.

 

[Apollo]

@egaal

Erythrean is a synonym for Cushitic used by some people.

 

[AbdiS]

What other Somali tribes carry E-M293?

I have only seen Kenyan Somalis and the Somalis in southern K5 that carry it.

 

[egaal]

@egaal

Erythrean is a synonym for Cushitic used by some people.

North Erythrean is Yemen. I don’t think Yemenis are cushite lol. That’s interesting that you say the Libyan has E-V32. Because E-V32 is actually from Upper Egypt. You might think an Egyptian with Haplogroup E-V32 is Somali but I don’t he could most likely be an ancestor who stayed behind.

 

[Apollo]

North Erythrean is Yemen. I don’t think Yemenis are cushite.

Erythrean is a nerdy anthropology synonym for Cushitic. Some people don't like the term Cushitic because of the association with the Kingdom of Kush or the bible and try to use Erythrean instead (which means Red Sea).

That’s interesting that you say the Libyan has E-V32. Because E-V32 is actually from Upper Egypt. You might think an Egyptian with Haplogroup E-V32 is Somali but I don’t he could most likely be an ancestor who stayed behind or got lost or decided to go to a different destination.

That Libyan has a much deeper version of V32. One that is dated to 400 years ago. Subtype E-BY8081 as I said before, haplogroups continue to mutate and you can trace them indefinitely, especially with whole genome Y-Chromosome tests like Big Y.

It is not from ancient times. It is dated to the 1600s. So he got it from a Somali who lived in Somalia in the year 1600 and then decided to move to Libya. Most likely Ottoman Era related. I mentioned him because those Arabs with African lineages may not even look Afro-Arab sometimes.

 

[T1a]

There is a Libyan man who did the full Y-Chromosome test and got the recent Somali lineage (from as recent as only 500 years ago). He most likely descends from an Ottoman era Somali trader. Weirdly he looks even more Caucasian than most Libyans. His picture and that of his son (open spoiler).

Spoiler

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So the phenotypic origins of a paternal lineage can be 'erased' in as little as 300 years.

Is he aware of his non Arab lineage? It’s weird if he doesn’t because it not that far back.

Just shows how easily family origins can be forgotten or altered.

 

[Habbad]

There is a Libyan man who did the full Y-Chromosome test and got the recent Somali lineage (from as recent as only 500 years ago). He most likely descends from an Ottoman era Somali trader. Weirdly he looks even more Caucasian than most Libyans. His picture and that of his son (open spoiler).

Spoiler

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So the phenotypic origins of a paternal lineage can be 'erased' in as little as 300 years.

am I crazy or can I see the geeljire in him? the more caucasian look probably comes from his nose. he doesnt have the typical hook nose that gives away the berber/arab

 

[Moholin01]

Is this why it's found in Rwanda and Burundi?

https://yfull.com/tree/E-M293/

Remnants from Ancient South Cushites?

 

[Apollo]

Is he aware of his non Arab lineage? It’s weird if he doesn’t because it not that far back.

Just shows how easily family origins can be forgotten or altered.

He wasn't aware of it, which is even more shocking.

am I crazy or can I see the geeljire in him? the more caucasian look probably comes from his nose. he doesnt have the typical hook nose that gives away the berber/arab

He is probably less than 1% Somali. I doubt you can physically tell, you are looking for it now that you know he has a Somali paternal lineage. If you didn't know, you would think he was just a regular coastal Maghrebi.

 

[Pioneer]

Was he E-V32

E-V32 is very old like 5000-6000 and is not only Somali, we share with many countries in
the Horn and Middle east.

This guy is genetically Somali and immigrated to Libya 400-500 years a go.

He has Somali Y Dna E-BY081. He used to be with the Yfull Somali list, not anymore.
But, 2 Saudis don't mind Somali Dna Heritage, although they have another Somali Y Dna branch.

 

[The Camels of Cal madow]

Lol I thought sanbuur was a guy not a clan. Never heard of them...what part of Somalia are they from?

Sanbuur are part of habar habusheed and stay with habar jeclo along with ibraan for protection.

 

[Mujahid Nur Marehan]

I noticed Somalis in the North have more diverse E haplogroup. But I think Somalis in lower Shabelle and parts of South Somali will also have diverse haologroups but central Somali and Bari and SOOL and SANAAG have similar haplogroup E around 2700 TMRC.

 

[Apollo]

I noticed Somalis in the North have more diverse E haplogroup. But I think Somalis in lower Shabelle and parts of South Somali will also have diverse haologroups but central Somali and Bari and SOOL and SANAAG have similar haplogroup E around 2700 TMRC.

Looking forward to your first Marehan result.

 

[Mujahid Nur Marehan]

If the Somali and Oromo languages split around 3500 years ago would you guys expect Somali E haplogroup TMRC to be around 3500 years instead of most Somali Y haplogroup cluster which is around 2700 TMRC.

 

[Apollo]

If the Somali and Oromo languages split around 3500 years ago would you guys expect Somali E haplogroup TMRC to be around 3500 years instead of most Somali Y haplogroup cluster which is around 2700 TMRC.

You cannot easily match languages to male haplogroups, especially not in pastoralist groups with founder effects. Sahos have E-V22, Afars have E-V6 but they came from the same linguistic community (Saho-Afar).

It isn't as simple as that.

 

[Pioneer]

Are Afars majority E-V6? I know they have J1 like Bejas.

 

[Arabsiyawi]

Are Afars majority E-V6? I know they have J1 like Bejas.

Afars aren’t as bottlenecked as we and Sahos are.