Somalia’s offshore oil reserves are an estimated 110 billion

[Lordilord]

I haven't forgotten anything. The truth though is that everyone suffered under Siad Barre.

I'm all for recognising what happened and reconciliation. What I don't understand is how people twist things to make it sound like there was a Southern conspiracy only against Isaaq. Did Majerteen not rebel and fight against Siad Barre?

The Isaaq in the south when the war started were protected by the southern Dir. Did the Somali pilots sent to bomb the North not refuse on masse? Siad Barre was forced to use South African mercenaries. What about the Hawiye, the Rahanweyn, Somali Bantu, Reer Xamar? What did they do to you?

The point is this was a regime killing a segment of its people (and Isaaq weren't the sole targets) who had spawned a rebel movement amongst them. What happened was a horrible massacre (my family lost everything in Hargeysa) but you make it sound like Siad Barre randomly decided to start killing for no reason.

A lot of the clan antagonism was merely Siad Barre's Machiavellian attempt at securing his own power base by getting the Somali people to kill each other. The policies he undertook in this regard are well-known.

Obviously there is more to the story.. The disrespect started early bro, they allocated power unfairly and disrespected our union treaty. Almost like a hostile political takeover. Nvm it was not something we were prepared for.. So they went forward with this already shaky union..

They distributed power and money unfairly and they had no respect for us..

We were a recognized country, imagine that but we put our differences aside and decided to join the southerners to combine into one country for what??? The legal basis on which the union stands on is pathetic...

When they start to respect us that is when we can work with them not the other way. Do you actually believe it is a good idea to reunite with them?

 

[nine]

Did you forget what Somalia did to the people of the North?? Did you forget all the crimes that were committed against your Somali brothers???

Listen these southerners like to say midnimo and all that stuff that we are brothers but they think we will forget what happened.. Their hands are full of blood and it is not something you can wipe of that easy..

We can forgive but not forget.. So what they built that, it is in our territory.. They should have built more to the east..

You guys got bombed by the Kacaan government and Moorgan, not random Geeljires from Baardheere or farmers from Baydhabo.
Hawiyes (mainly Habir Gadir) went on a disgusting rampage in the south (they even dug out water pipes from the Jubba Valley and removed lamp posts lmao) and made southerners refugees. You don't see Marexaan and Raxanweyn calling for independence from Hawiyes and crying.

 

[Lordilord]

You guys got bombed by the Kacaan government and Moorgan, not random Geeljires from Baardheere or farmers from Baydhabo.
Hawiyes (mainly Habir Gadir) went on a disgusting rampage in the south (they even dug out water pipes from the Jubba Valley and removed lamp posts lmao) and made southerners refugees. You don't see Marexaan and Raxanweyn calling for independence from Hawiyes.

But where they a recognize country before?? Somaliland was recognized and they at that time believed in midnimo and unity right? So they went into a union but in the end we were disrespected and massacred. Bro our capital was destroyed..

This is not something you just forget.. It is the reason we will never reunite and rather be in a limbo than be with Somalia.

 

[HouseofSamaale]

Obviously there is more to the story.. The disrespect started early bro, they allocated power unfairly and disrespected our union treaty. Almost like a hostile political takeover. Nvm it was not something we were prepared for.. So they went forward with this already shaky union..

They distributed power and money unfairly and they had no respect for us..

We were a recognized country, imagine that but we put our differences aside and decided to join the southerners to combine into one country for what??? The legal basis on which the union stands on is pathetic...

When they start to respect us that is when we can work with them not the other way. Do you actually believe it is a good idea to reunite with them?

I take your point on how messed up the Union was.

To be honest, perhaps I'm too optimistic and just want this to go into the pages of history.

Meelkasta wan ku dhibanhayn. All I want is for all our people to genuinely support and look after each other and rebuild the common civilisation of our ancestors.

I would actually like to see Hargeysa as the Somali capital (or another location more central) of a Greater Somali Republic. This would require loads of bloodshed, struggle and effort but I believe someone needs to come out on top in Somalia and govern the entire thing.

Regarding whether there should be political union at this point, I'd say this is a pointless question. Right now, there is no properly sovereign government which controls the rest of the country. Farmaajo only really controls Banaadir. Puntland is a closet Somaliland. The other 'regional states' are similar to varying degrees. Somaliland for all its very limited progress is at the beck and call of Ethiopia.

 

[nine]

But where they a recognize country before?? Somaliland was recognized and they at that time believed in midnimo and unity right? So they went into a union but in the end we were disrespected and massacred. Bro our capital was destroyed..

This is not something you just forget.. It is the reason we will never reunite and rather be in a limbo than be with Somalia.

You got bombed by Kacaan government and Moorgan, not Somalia. You were disrespected by Moorgan and the Kacaan government , not Somalia.
The average Mareexaan from the south prefers Isaaqs over Ogaadeens and Majeerteens and views you lot as brothers. They'll welcome you more than someone from Qabri Dahar or Boosaaso. They would do the same thing with a Habir Gadir whose clan destroyed a big chunk of Somalia.

What I'm saying is that every clan has grievances and unity is our solution. I have Majeerteen, Ogaadeen, Hawiye, Dir and Isaaq cousins. Somalia is infested with Qabyaalad but we marry each other (like people can't choose between marrying each other or killing each other). If we were united then we could accomplish a lot more than we could if were Somaliland, Puntland, or tribal fiefdoms.

 

[Zero]

The pain the Isaaq suffered was caused by a mad dictator and his supporters obsessed with power. Yet people on here argue like there was some agreement amongst the southern people to go and kill the people of the North.

Its true that some groups in the south are innocent but Daroods aren't one of them.It also doesn't change the fact that the south is majority Darood and that they dominate the political landscape.Daroods care about one thing and one thing only,themselves.I feel sorry for the minority clans that get exploited by Daroods.
We Isaaqs unlike the others are far away from Darood exploitation and have found ways to move forward on our own.Why would we cut off our legs now and join a nation were we just become another minority clan and get restricted? Why would we change our Isaaq president for a Darood one?Why would we join a nation that is poorer than us and pay taxes for other clans? There are no benefits to joining Somalia and only massive problems.Hell,if this is about joining a nation to be stronger militarly and financially we would rather join Ethiopia.

I would actually like to see Hargeysa as the Somali capital (or another location more central) of a Greater Somali Republic. This would require loads of bloodshed, struggle and effort but I believe someone needs to come out on top in Somalia and govern the entire thing.

Again,NO!
Why should Isaaqs give their own self build city(after the south destroyed it) to others? Does that make sense to you? Why should we welcome people that still claim Said Barre did nothing wrong? Why should we endanger our people for yours who don't contribute to their own regions and actively destroy it? In our eyes you guys are as much of a foreigner as any other African.Just go try to live in SL today and see it for yourself.

 

[HouseofSamaale]

Its true that some groups in the south are innocent but Daroods aren't one of them.It also doesn't change the fact that the south is majority Darood and that they dominate the political landscape.Daroods care about one thing and one thing only,themselves.I feel sorry for the minority clans that get exploited by Daroods.
We Isaaqs unlike the others are far away from Darood exploitation and have found ways to move forward on our own.Why would we cut off our legs now and join a nation were we just become another minority clan and get restricted? Why would we change our Isaaq president for a Darood one?Why would we join a nation that is poorer than us and pay taxes for other clans? There are no benefits to joining Somalia and only massive problems.Hell,if this is about joining a nation to be stronger militarly and financially we would rather join Ethiopia.


Again,NO!
Why should Isaaqs give their own self build city(after the south destroyed it) to others? Does that make sense to you? Why should we welcome people that still claim Said Barre did nothing wrong? Why should we endanger our people for yours who don't contribute to their own regions and actively destroy it? In our eyes you guys are as much of a foreigner as any other African.Just go try to live in SL today and see it for yourself.

I'm not from the South. Why does everyone think I'm southern merely because I don't go along with the usual opinion?

 

[Slickback]

I was waiting for this.... Provided by the Duke himself.

Bismillah.

Firstly Warsangeli is a minority in Sanaag with HY, HJ and Dhulbahante being majority.... They have two small cities?? I hear Bari region is beautiful.. They can go there if they don't like it..

Secondly Sool is Majority HY, HJ and Dhulbahante...

but HY alone is bigger than Dhulbahante people and Warsangeli combined...

Not that it matters who lives there because the reason Somaliland claims those regions is colonial..

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It absolutely matters who lives where. Tribal borders >>> colonial borders

You were literally granted independence by the British with the intention of unifying with Italian Somaliland which subsequently happened. Stop it. You were an independent country for 5 days sxb when the idea of a unitary Somalia was agreed upon literally months before your actual independence. inb4 some nonsense about dissolving the union. If colonial borders are so damn important, Somalia unified before the actual founding of the AU and one of its founding principles is to not f*ck with the colonial borders. Since we're going off technicalities and all. If Somaliland's legal footing is so strong, why haven't you been granted independence yet?

I'm not going to lie and pretend I exactly know where 'traditional' Dhulbahante and Warsangeli degaan ends. I'll take your word on the population, but that absolutely does not give you the right to claim the entire SSC because your folk outnumber them on there. Ffs, the official Somaliland border is right outside Qardho.

I don't rate this whole Somalilanders believed in midnimo nonsense. You're not lying, midnimo is bs and doesn't exist. If I were Isaaq/lander I wouldn't be pro-Somalia either, but I don't understand why y'all feel so wronged by Somalia when both sides are playing the same game?

 

[HouseofSamaale]

It absolutely matters who lives where. Tribal borders >>> colonial borders

You were literally granted independence by the British with the intention of unifying with Italian Somaliland which subsequently happened. Stop it. You were an independent country for 5 days sxb when the idea of a unitary Somalia was agreed upon literally months before your actual independence. inb4 some nonsense about dissolving the union. If colonial borders are so damn important, Somalia unified before the actual founding of the AU and one of its founding principles is to not f*ck with the colonial borders. Since we're going off technicalities and all. If Somaliland's legal footing is so strong, why haven't you been granted independence yet?

I'm not going to lie and pretend I exactly know where 'traditional' Dhulbahante and Warsangeli degaan ends. I'll take your word on the population, but that absolutely does not give you the right to claim the entire SSC because your folk outnumber them on there. Ffs, the official Somaliland border is right outside Qardho.

I don't rate this whole Somalilanders believed in midnimo nonsense. You're not lying, midnimo is bs and doesn't exist. If I were Isaaq/lander I wouldn't be pro-Somalia either, but I don't understand why y'all feel so wronged by Somalia when both sides are playing the same game?

No we very much did. To the extent we willingly agreed to absolutely preposterous terms.

The negotiators for the Southern side deliberately proposed terms they believed we would reject so they could perhaps exist as a separate entity and save face instead of rejecting Union outright and pissing off the population. The Northern negotiators willingly accepted these terms (including Mogadishu as the capital and a disgustingly unbalanced division of political and military posts) for the sake of achieving Somaliweyn. You will see the most active Greater Somalia nationalists were people like the USP and Northern people in general. Say what you want but don't lie about the former Pan Somali nationalism of the North.

 

[Zero]

I'm not from the South. Why does everyone think I'm southern merely because I don't go along with the usual opinion?

Then why are you actively promoting an idea that would stop and destroy our prosperity?

It absolutely matters who lives where. Tribal borders >>> colonial borders

Colonial borders are absolute.If every group wanted to live within ethnic/tribal borders the world today would be in flames.

You were literally granted independence by the British with the intention of unifying with Italian Somaliland which subsequently happened. Stop it. You were an independent country for 5 days sxb when the idea of a unitary Somalia was agreed upon literally months before your actual independence.

There was never one united Somali state.We could've chosen to walk the same path as Djibouti,but our ancestors were bunch of idiots and they got exploited for it.

 

[HouseofSamaale]

Then why are you actively promoting an idea that would stop and destroy our prosperity?

Colonial borders are absolute.If every group wanted to live within ethnic/tribal borders the world today would be in flames.

Zero, I'm thinking long-term. I don't want the Somali people to become absorbed by Ethiopia and Kenya and be trampled under the foot of foreign nations. It is also my personal view there should be some form of confederation/union of the Somali people.

The issue in the Horn is not the impossibility of union and progress. The issue is the imposition of an alien political framework (the nation-state). I believe if we return and improvise on a political framework which is derived from our values there will be peace in the Horn.

I haven't come up with a name for this neo-traditional political framework.

 

[Lordilord]

It absolutely matters who lives where. Tribal borders >>> colonial borders

You were literally granted independence by the British with the intention of unifying with Italian Somaliland which subsequently happened. Stop it. You were an independent country for 5 days sxb when the idea of a unitary Somalia was agreed upon literally months before your actual independence. inb4 some nonsense about dissolving the union. If colonial borders are so damn important, Somalia unified before the actual founding of the AU and one of its founding principles is to not f*ck with the colonial borders. Since we're going off technicalities and all. If Somaliland's legal footing is so strong, why haven't you been granted independence yet?

I'm not going to lie and pretend I exactly know where 'traditional' Dhulbahante and Warsangeli degaan ends. I'll take your word on the population, but that absolutely does not give you the right to claim the entire SSC because your folk outnumber them on there. Ffs, the official Somaliland border is right outside Qardho.

I don't rate this whole Somalilanders believed in midnimo nonsense. You're not lying, midnimo is bs and doesn't exist. If I were Isaaq/lander I wouldn't be pro-Somalia either, but I don't understand why y'all feel so wronged by Somalia when both sides are playing the same game?

Because the international community is afraid of igniting already existing separatist movements and other regions that are thinking of seceding possibly destabilizing many regions in Africa not only east.

The reason the international community puts up with Somaliland is because of their legal claim to the predecessor British Somaliland Protectorate. Also tribal borders means nothing compared to colonial borders in the eyes of international law which many countries are based on.

Also what about the union treaties that were signed?? Somaliland was recognized and after the fact willingly entered into a union with the south in hopes for greater cooperation between Somali people.

You actually believe Somaliland was just recognized to then enter a union and dissolve their sovereignty? Come one man.. The treaties that were signed entailed different things one being Somaliland can willingly leave the union.

 

[HouseofSamaale]

Because the international community is afraid of igniting already existing separatist movements and other regions that are thinking of seceding possibly destabilizing many regions in Africa not only east.

The reason the international community puts up with Somaliland is because of their legal claim to the pre. Also tribal borders means nothing compared to colonial borders which many countries are based on.

Also what about the union treaties that were signed?? Somaliland was recognized and after the fact willingly entered into a union with the south in hopes for greater cooperation between Somali people.

You actually believe Somaliland was just recognized to then enter a union and dissolve their sovereignty? Come one man.. The treaties that were signed entailed different things one being Somaliland can willingly leave the union.

In all fairness, if the 'international community' had sufficient concern for Somaliland, they would have sponsored its independence like they sponsored South Sudan.

 

[Lordilord]

In all fairness, if the 'international community' had sufficient concern for Somaliland, they would have sponsored its independence like they sponsored South Sudan.

There is huge difference they agreed together to separate as a part of a peace deal.

Somaliland is already independent but Somalia doesn't want to let go. If the international community goes against Somalia it might lead a dangerous precedent where other regions might attempt to do the same.

 

[Zero]

Zero, I'm thinking long-term. I don't want the Somali people to become absorbed by Ethiopia and Kenya and be trampled under the foot of foreign nations. It is also my personal view there should be some form of confederation/union of the Somali people.

Neither Ethiopia nor Kenya are capable of taking over Djibouti and Somaliland.The reason is because we are stable and in control of our borders.Its nothing more then fairy tales about Ethiopia and Kenya taking over Somali regions in this day and age.But the same can't be said about Somalia which is super unstable and I can see both nations,Africans,Arabs,even Djibouti and SL being involved in the chaos for all kinds of reasons.

If one day Somalia manages to sort out its problems,then I would gladly welcome a NATO style alliance between the Somali regions.

 

[HouseofSamaale]

There is huge difference they agreed together to separate as a part of a peace deal.

Somaliland is already independent but Somalia doesn't want to let go. If the international community goes against Somalia it might lead a dangerous precedent where other regions might attempt to do the same.

Well pressure was put on Sudan to agree to this.

Honestly, I think the foreign powers involved in this situation WANT the continuation of the status quo. Ethiopia must love the fact they can use Somaliland as they wish. If Somaliland actually became recognised as a separate country, this would cause problems for them.

 

[HouseofSamaale]

Neither Ethiopia nor Kenya are capable of taking over Djibouti and Somaliland.The reason is because we are stable and in control of our borders.Its nothing more then fairy tales about Ethiopia and Kenya taking over Somali regions in this day and age.But the same can't be said about Somalia which is super unstable and I can see both nations,Africans,Arabs,even Djibouti and SL being involved in the chaos for all kinds of reasons.

If one day Somalia manages to sort out its problems,then I would gladly welcome a NATO style alliance between the Somali regions.

You honestly believe Ethiopia can't take over Somaliland?

They can't take over Djibouti because Ina Guelleh has five foreign armies based there lol.

 

[Zero]

You honestly believe Ethiopia can't take over Somaliland?

They can't take over Djibouti because Ina Guelleh has five foreign armies based there lol.

Well we have UAE now and if Ethiopia what all its ethnic problems would be stupid enough to start a war with SL they would suffer massively since the fighting won't be isolated to Ethio vs SL only.It would mean the end of Ethiopia as we know it.

 

[Lordilord]

You honestly believe Ethiopia can't take over Somaliland?

They can't take over Djibouti because Ina Guelleh has five foreign armies based there lol.

Djibouti absolutely not.. Ethiopia could possibly take over Somaliland but their chances would diminish as soon as the UAE military base is finished this year.

Which gives Somaliland a whole other level of political security that we have not seen ever.

The issue is not that Ethiopia doesn't have enough military power which they do. They are several times stronger than Somaliland.

What they don't have tho is enough political power to take over Somaliland. Ethiopia is not Russia where they just went into the Crimea and annexed it. It would spark economic and military sanctions that Ethiopia can't handle.

 

[CangeeroBear]

I was waiting for this.... Provided by the Duke himself. This one is for you too @HouseofSamaale

Bismillah.

Firstly Warsangeli is a minority in Sanaag with HY, HJ and Dhulbahante being majority.... They have two small cities?? I hear Bari region is beautiful.. They can go there if they don't like it..

Secondly Sool is Majority HY, HJ and Dhulbahante...

but HY alone is bigger than Dhulbahante people and Warsangeli combined...

Not that it matters who lives there because the reason Somaliland claims those regions is based on colonialism.. It helps that the HY is everywhere in Sool and Sanaag tho..

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Minority in sanaag

I swear you are high, warsengali subclan is exclusively* in sanaag.HY often moves out of sanaag and throughout hawd , toghdheeer etc.

Exclusively means 90% and above of the warsengali live in that region.The actual split is 60/40 in sanaag.