Somalia 1970s

[Khaemwaset]

 

[Khaemwaset]

I don't care what you say Somalia before the war was worse than todayr.

Somalia now is a a paper state it celebrates basic things that we had already achieved at independence.

 

[Saintz]

@Khaemwaset, what do you think will happen to Somalis in a decade or two, considering we’ll start to drill for oil next year? Will Somalis back home have a better quality of life, or will we still have people killing their own kind in the name of clan loyalty over water wells?

 

[Khaemwaset]

@Khaemwaset, what do you think will happen to Somalis in a decade or two, considering we’ll start to drill for oil next year? Will Somalis back home have a better quality of life, or will we still have people killing their own kind in the name of clan loyalty over water wells?

It can go either way really.
What alot of people don't understand is Somalis currently are living in the most consequential era in our modern history.

If we keep this status quo going for another 20 years I can say that Somalis as a people are finished, well be like kurds or even worse armenians. As our neighbours grow we can't afford to function as we are right now.

But if Somalia fixes up and takes steps to become a centralised state with a government that utilises its natural resources to build up the state and military then Somalia will dominate east Africa no doubt.

So whether or not Somalia ends up in anarchy or like the Gulf as we start to extract oil depends on if we can create a functional state that is more powerful than local tribes.

 

[Afeik_Abiy]

It can go either way really.
What alot of people don't understand is Somalis currently are living in the most consequential era in our modern history.

If we keep this status quo going for another 20 years I can say that Somalis as a people are finished, well be like kurds or even worse armenians. As our neighbours grow we can't afford to function as we are right now.

But if Somalia fixes up and takes steps to become a centralised state with a government that utilises its natural resources to build up the state and military then Somalia will dominate east Africa no doubt.

So whether or not Somalia ends up in anarchy or like the Gulf as we start to extract oil depends on if we can create a functional state that is more powerful than local tribes.

I feel like if Somalia centralized it will end up similar to Djibouti, alright for African standards but a lot of missed potential for economic growth.

 

[Khaemwaset]

I feel like if Somalia centralized it will end up similar to Djibouti, alright for African standards but a lot of missed potential for economic growth.

Being a centralised state is necessary for industrialisation. All these countries that became rich went through civil wars and massive periods of change to become centralised states which then industrialised.

Japan with meji restoration, Germany with the wars started by Bismark, America with the civil war, China with the CCP civil war ect.

If Somalia becomes centralised we could end up like another african country such as Kenya or something. Or we could go past that and continue our modernisation. Either way centralisation is necessary.

 

[berberaboy66]

Being a centralised state is necessary for industrialisation. All these countries that became rich went through civil wars and massive periods of change to become centralised states which then industrialised.

Japan with meji restoration, Germany with the wars started by Bismark, America with the civil war, China with the CCP civil war ect.

If Somalia becomes centralised we could end up like another african country such as Kenya or something. Or we could go past that and continue our modernisation. Either way centralisation is necessary.

Centralisation basically caused the civil war. I think you should adapt your country to your ideals. No two countries are ever the same: it’s important to focus on what works and doesn’t work within the country. Federalism is limited but it’s clearly had a positive impact north of Galkacyo, compared to what it was before.

Of course federalism should be limited though, a centralised state with federal govs sounds ideal.

 

[Haragwaafi]

I feel like if Somalia centralized it will end up similar to Djibouti, alright for African standards but a lot of missed potential for economic growth.

Somalia was like Djibouti where wealth and development was only focused in the capital while the rest of the nation was ignored and neglected

 

[Khaemwaset]

Centralisation basically caused the civil war. I think you should adapt your country to your ideals. No two countries are ever the same: it’s important to focus on what works and doesn’t work within the country. Federalism is limited but it’s clearly had a positive impact north of Galkacyo, compared to what it was before.

Of course federalism should be limited though, a centralised state with federal govs sounds ideal.

Name one country that industrialised without a central government?
And jf you cannot centralise in the modern era you basically damn your country to being behind the world.

Centralisation didn't cause the civil war, an aging and weak old dictator as well as a socialist economy that had been in decline for the entire 1980s did. Of course with the help of foriegn state backers like Ethiopia and USA who funded militants.

Centralisation can absolutely work in Somalia and it has worked for decades before the civil war. Somalia after the civil war did not create a federal state, these states like Puntland and such try behave like their own countries independent from Xamar in all but name.

How can a country develop with that type of condition? The only way for Somalia is to force Centralisation. This is what all developed countries went though and the ends always justify the means.

 

[Afeik_Abiy]

Somalia was like Djibouti where wealth and development was only focused in the capital while the rest of the nation was ignored and neglected

Yup, whenever people talk about the "glory" days they show the same 5 pictures of xamar as if 70% of the population wasn't illiterate nomads lol

 

[Khaemwaset]

Yup, whenever people talk about the "glory" days they show the same 5 pictures of xamar as if 70% of the population wasn't illiterate nomads lol

Not at all.
The country was never 70% nomadic, in the 1900s that's absurd my paternal side left that life in the 1800, And even those somali lived better than the modern day living in anarchy

 

[Haragwaafi]

Not at all.
The country was never 70% nomadic, in the 1900s that's absurd my paternal side left that life in the 1800, And even those somali lived better than the modern day living in anarchy

What?? kiddo urbanization has increased only the last 2 decades and 30 years ago majority of Somalis were nomads

 

[Khaemwaset]

What?? kiddo urbanization has increased only the last 2 decades and 30 years ago majority of Somalis were nomads

Speak for yourself with that reer baadiya nonsense. Though that explains what I see from alot of Somalis.

 

[Haragwaafi]

Speak for yourself with that reer baadiya nonsense. Though that explains what I see from alot of Somalis.

You were born in the 2000s in qurbo so don't think you can lecture me on how somalis used to live like 20 or 30 years ago

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[Afeik_Abiy]

Not at all.
The country was never 70% nomadic, in the 1900s that's absurd my paternal side left that life in the 1800, And even those somali lived better than the modern day living in anarchy

Are you talking about Somalia or Dijibouti? That would make sense for the later since >50% of people live in the capital

 

[Khaemwaset]

You were born in the 2000s in qurbo so don't think you can lecture me on how somalis used to live like 20 or 30 years ago

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Majority of Ciise live in Djibouti city or Dir dhaba are you autistic.
And my family hasn't had a geelgire since the 1880s at

 

[Khaemwaset]

Are you talking about Somalia or Dijibouti? That would make sense for the later since >50% of people live in the capital

basically all of Djibouti lives in the city. A population of 1 million with the city being around 900k

 

[Haragwaafi]

Majority of Ciise live in Djibouti city or Dir dhaba are you autistic.
And my family hasn't had a geelgire since the 1880s at

Majority of your ppl are nomads that's why Dir Dhaba is getting oromized

 

[Khaemwaset]

Majority of your ppl are nomads that's why Dir Dhaba is getting oromized

Bullshit, majority of dir dhaba is Dir Somali including Ciise only reason theg claimed it was oromo and separated it from Galbeed was because they Ethiopian gov listed Gurgura Clan as Oromo on the census

 

[Haragwaafi]

Bullshit, majority of dir dhaba is Dir Somali including Ciise only reason theg claimed it was oromo and separated it from Galbeed was because they Ethiopian gov listed Gurgura Clan as Oromo on the census

Oromo has mass migrated to the city to the point they occupy the main center of it while Ciise are still nomads