Somalia 1970s
- Thread starter Khaemwaset
- Start date
Centralization is why Ethiopia remained independent and decentralization is why our nomadic clan sultanates were picked off one by one.
If you honestly believe a small impoverished nation of less than 20 million (more people live in Shanghai than Somalis in existence) needs a half dozen clan fiefdoms with their own legislatures, currencies, armies, foreign policies, etc. you're an imbecile.
If you honestly believe a small impoverished nation of less than 20 million (more people live in Shanghai than Somalis in existence) needs a half dozen clan fiefdoms with their own legislatures, currencies, armies, foreign policies, etc. you're an imbecile.
Terrible time
Ethiopia wasn't really centralized. It was an empire and when they attempted centralization it backfired hard on them
The most laziest statement about the civil war ever, the qabilist rebel groups caused the prolongation of the civilwar, Federalism has overall failed and is based on clan lines. All those xaarlands are going nowhere without mogadisho and mogadisho has no say without full control of the country
Bruh siad barre had some questionable things but this guy had a vision this guy had an eye for *DEVELOPMENT* not the currents leader of loot and rule. Then figure out things to do to stay in office compared to whos mid.. while the real managers run somalia. Shaping up real well with the hormood and dahabshill monopoly. Wlhi u heard it now once somalia gets booming watch some super ususry corporation buy it up and run somalia. Thats why i do not like voting so often. We need a CENTRALIZED government. heavy HANDED leadership. But NOT one man rule entirely. He should have a council and advisors. Must also be allied with the west sadly. We cant afford to get rid of. I genuinely wonder what HSM is doing right now, what does he do? I Dont understand why somalis is WASTING their time with a western parliment system with taxi cab driver representatives. Why does a failed country need a handicap (a slow parlimeny) on our progress. I could go on but everyone with a pure heart and intelligence understands this.
We need to oust the federalists, the most homogeneous country in Africa and having an federalist system with semi autonomous states? its a disgrace
Good Thinking, youre almost there.
Now just because a government is centralist dosent mean there is not aspect of regional rule. That is a myth used to destroy countries. Example is China. They are central government but they have local governments and provincial things. Federalism is a scam used to destablize somalia. Thats why I completely reject the idea of federal states. It should serve no governmental purposes other then categorization and a minister to the central government. Authority should be on a smaller scale like splitting states up to even smaller segements. Less power to rebel. Thats why every successful federal govenrment has many states. Too little and youll end up with a natural confederal system. But I dont even like that idea to start with. We cannot be fit into a box. We need a central small government with aspects of federalism such as smaller states having power (but not too much power like military, special guard, or even taxes) this current way is absolutely not gonna work and was intentionally planned. Thats why you sed other ethnicities hiding behind independancd banners for state. Somaliland. Puntland. But yes i most definitely agree with you on countries need to find what works for them. And looking at the history, and cross examining with the Sh**hole that we have now. You can see that centralism with some aspects of local rule is the best way also islamic governance aswell.
I fully agree with you, this isnt even natural either. Its a set-up. These semi autonomous states isnt even federalism its a disgrace. Im not against regional and subnational minor local governments
Only reason ethiopia won in the 1900 is because they centralised had their Emperor Twedros xoog all the local nobility and create a centralised country after 300 years of disunity
You can’t really judge federalism right now, kebab has too much power.
The qabilist rebel groups is true though. Somaliland and Puntland have had previous SNM and SSDF links. Madoobe is basically a warlord. LG and QQ looool
Long term we need to centralise ofc. But look at the state of the current politicians across the country. We can’t even control xamar.
Ethiopia was never centralized. It was decentralized broken into a collection of landlocked rural fiefdoms.
Somali sultanates Majerteen/Hobyo/Warsangeli/Geledi on the other hand etc were far more centralized built on commercial/urban sedentary networks, with bureaucratic structures, with governors/ministers amirs/naibs, legal officials qadis, sharifs, councils under the Sultan/Garaad/Boqor, with a taxation/revenue collection system, standing/professional army and diplomatic relations/embassies in other countries.
And Ethiopia got picked apart very easily by the British . They invaded Ethiopia conquered their capital and besiegied their lands in 1868. Punished their king.
Ethiopia from then on basically rendered itself into a Vassal of the British Empire and worked with them against the Sudanis Mahdist and Somalis under Anglo-Ethiopian agreements. That's really why it remained with some level of autonomy which was rewarded by the British.
They however also sold off to Italy the northern Ethiopian territories of Bogos, Hamasen, and Akale-Guzai modern Eritrea and northern Tigray in exchange for a sum of money and the provisions in treaties to avoid their other lands from direct occupation in the Treat of Wichale.
Only fared a short victory against Italians who tried to enforce more land grab much like how the Dervishes were victiorious for a while with their interior movements, utilizing mobile land movement via mountains & terrains to their advantage, instead of getting their fixed coastal settlements bombarded from the sea like the sultanates. And that advantage was quickly narrowed with the use of arial combat, same with the Italians occupying them until the British bailed them out.
After that the British simply took advantage of their colossal military presence in Ethiopia to establish control over all its main economic sectors and national resources. They took all their military equipment of away from them and said ''it should not be left for the service of blacks.'' . Took over their police office force and replaced it even.
Feudal Abyssinians only historical advantage was not centralization, it was forcefully mobilizing a big number of poor peasants away from resource production and economic activity into a war against their neighbors out of pure religious ideology/hatred while glorifying their nomadic illiterate feudal kings moving around in tents. That's why Ethiopia was an impoverished nation and still is.
Staying a float by being propt up by other western judeo-christian nations because they see them as regional strategic assets and ally against Islamists. Thats the only glue keeping it together from shattering into the next Yugoslavia.
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