Somaliland Voter Numbers Are Cooked Up

[DR OSMAN]

@PuntiteQueen Is gonna be furious after 20 years of investment that mogadishu is still aid dependent, poverty is still the same, all our investment went into a fuckin GHETTO, the hate between the ummah increases, our foreign debt increases, the world TURNS AWAY. All u need to do is dump into PL, it will show gains within a year and more activity this is what the world wanna see a population rising

 

[Abdurahman_somali]

There's nothing generous about the number, it's in line with other estimations prior to the PESS. The 4.3 million is most likely fake, no different than Somaliland claiming 4.8 million in 2015.

1) Somaliland department for statistics claims 3.8 million people. Actually if they would follow the UN estimation of 2014 and use the population of growth of around 2.9 percent the population should have been around 4.2 Million people by now. So unlike the department for Statistics of Puntland, the one of Somaliland doesn't come up with delusional numbers from nowhere.

http://www.somalilandcsd.org/

2) Which population estimation/ census for Somalia are you referring to, when you say it is in line with the previous one ?

 

[DR OSMAN]

I don't know if it's 80% of the livestock trade but it's most certainly the most livestock. The livestock populations of Puntland and Somaliland were neck and neck but they lost 80% of in the drought 3 years ago and are still recovering.

None of it will matter when the south becomes peaceful and there will be millions of hectares of farmland open for cultivation, the economy will completely tip in favor of the south unless natural resources are found in the north.

SIN, I am afraid to tell you the south is over. Geopolitically it doesn't have any impact on the world and why it's just testing ground, it's not the red sea location of the world, were we could negiotate a singapore model with the world who has huge trade risk to the world, where-as we got nothing to negiotate over mogadishu with them, they will laff and say what happens there has no global impact as the trade corridor isn't there.

U hurting us bro by keeping us hostage to a south that will never rise again. U dollarized the market of mogadishu all for a few thousand diaspora, u made the economy much harder for the local. Even if it was peaceful, the produces he does in farm land daily will be worth 'pennies' they will give them shillings, he will enter hamar and find diaspora market determined pricing and fall into 'soweto' living. There is no economical sense to back hamar wallahi, it's headin nowhere,. It's served it's time. Puntland is the future. We can back it up niyahow. Southies become traders in PL, buy properties, businesses, they return richer to the south showing it's better to encourage PL growth so southies can move here and make money and reinvest back into south. Not the other way around with south centric investment, your funding a ghetto.

I cant return to my constituents and sell them an economic model that has no proof behind it to succeed, in-fact the SFG still has no economic activity happening in hamar to generate taxes to self fund itself like PL. PL even self funds its own projects wallahi or at least co-contributes with partners. It's the future. @Abdurahman_somali knows this and hates it deep down it's rich as f*ck and strong as f*ck and it's the no 1 region of Somalia in the future

 

[repo]

1) Somaliland department for statistics claims 3.8 million people. Actually if they would follow the UN estimation of 2014 and use the population of growth of around 2.9 percent the population should have been around 4.2 Million people by now. So unlike the department for Statistics of Puntland, the one of Somaliland doesn't come up with delusional numbers from nowhere.

http://www.somalilandcsd.org/

2) Which population estimation/ census for Somalia are you referring to, when you say it is in line with the previous one ?

From the great sovereign state's own ministry of planning. Get a load of this.

The population of Somaliland was estimated at 4,827,631 in 2015. The population consists of nomads (33.8%), urban (52.9%), IDPs (2.4%) and rural dwellers (11%).

NB: A recent real scientific based population estimation survey has shown the actual gross rate

https://slministryofplanning.org/images/Statistics/SomalilandInfigures2015.pdf

I'm not talking about a census, I'm talking about Puntland's own estimations of around 2 to 2.4 million from mid to post 2000s. Point being that the PESS holds up with what Puntland claimed prior to the PESS.

 

[CirJiid]

The small city sizes like Puntland largest town bosaso being only 12sq km and lack of real nomadic population in @Fiidmeer maps shows that Puntland is properly 600k-800k max and that iz being real generous

 

[repo]

SIN, I am afraid to tell you the south is over. Geopolitically it doesn't have any impact on the world and why it's just testing ground, it's not the red sea location of the world, were we could negiotate a singapore model with the world who has huge trade risk to the world, where-as we got nothing to negiotate over mogadishu with them, they will laff and say what happens there has no global impact as the trade corridor isn't there.

U hurting us bro by keeping us hostage to a south that will never rise again. U dollarized the market of mogadishu all for a few thousand diaspora, u made the economy much harder for the local. Even if it was peaceful, the produces he does in farm land daily will be worth 'pennies' they will give them shillings, he will enter hamar and find diaspora market determined pricing and fall into 'soweto' living. There is no economical sense to back hamar wallahi, it's headin nowhere,. It's served it's time. Puntland is the future. We can back it up niyahow. Southies become traders in PL, buy properties, businesses, they return richer to the south showing it's better to encourage PL growth so southies can move here and make money and reinvest back into south. Not the other way around with south centric investment, your funding a ghetto.

I cant return to my constituents and sell them an economic model that has no proof behind it to succeed, in-fact the SFG still has no economic activity happening in hamar to generate taxes to self fund itself like PL. PL even self funds its own projects wallahi or at least co-contributes with partners. It's the future. @Abdurahman_somali knows this and hates it deep down it's rich as f*ck and strong as f*ck and it's the no 1 region of Somalia in the future

Puntland will become competitive there's no doubt about that but the south has an easier advantage in terms of resources. It's the location of the capital and the center of power. Puntland did a good job redirecting political power and aid to its own sphere of influence but without the badge it's meaningless in the end. Waxaa ka tirsanahay dowlada federalka Somalia and we are the people who founded it.

 

[Abdurahman_somali]

From the great sovereign state's own ministry of planning. Get a load of this.



I'm not talking about a census, I'm talking about Puntland's own estimations of around 2 to 2.4 million from mid to post 2000s. Point being that the PESS holds up with what Puntland claimed prior to the PESS.

Where do you get this number 2.4 millions people from ? Can you show us this cestimation done by PL, i'm actually curious. Lets say Puntland made this estimation in the year 2005, you know what this means ? It means Puntlands claim still contradict the PESS significantly, cause with a growth rate of 2.9 percent for Somalia the population in 2014 would have been not 2 Million people, but 3,2 Million. So not in line at all.

Of course you're not talking about a census, since every estimation/census Somalia had from administrations that controlled it, gave significantly lower numbers for Puntland claimed territory.

 

[repo]

Where do you get this number 2.4 millions people from ? Can you show us this cestimation done by PL, i'm actually curious. Lets say Puntland made this estimation in the year 2005, you know what this means ? It means Puntlands claim still contradict the PESS significantly, cause with a growth rate of 2.9 percent for Somalia the population in 2014 would have been not 2 Million people, but 3,2 Million. So not in line at all.

Of course you're not talking about a census, since every estimation/census Somalia had from administrations that controlled it, gave significantly lower numbers for Puntland claimed territory.

Obviously the population of Puntland was significant lower pre-1991. What a fucking asinine point to make. Somalia's population was concentrated in the south including people from Puntland.

Tribal migration back to the north east happened after 1991 when the government collapsed. There wasn't even a road from Garowe to Bosaso till 1988, the single piece of infrastructure that made Puntland possible in the first place.

And you are absolutely correct about the PESS. Going by that logic it appears to have underestimated Puntland's population. I can't even believe it, thank you very much.

 

[Abdurahman_somali]

Obviously the population of Puntland was significant lower pre-1991. What a fucking asinine point to make. Somalia's population was concentrated in the south including people from Puntland.

Tribal migration back to the north east happened after 1991 when the government collapsed. There wasn't even a road from Garowe to Bosaso till 1988, the single piece of infrastructure that made Puntland possible in the first place.

And you are absolutely correct about the PESS. Going by that logic it appears to have underestimated Puntland's population. I can't even believe it, thank you very much.

So from everything is line with PESS to thanking me for educating you ? Your welcome buddy.
:siilaanyolaugh:

Nice try, but you can't get me with such delusions. The population of Bari and Nugaal and Sool was in 1975 in the census 291k whereas Togdheer alone was 335k. If you go by the PESS (We can use it since we both feel underrepresented by this survey) today Bari+Sool+Nugaal have a population of 1.44 Million where Togdeer has 721k.

There is nothing that can explain these ridiculous numbers and there is no mass migration that could explain it. Tell us how much of the PL population went to the south ? The whole Benadir region had a population less than 500 k and even if we are generous and say 5 percent were Puntlanders, it means you guys made up 25 K. Add this to the 291k before and you get 316k. Still less than the 335k of Togdheer, without even including the population of Togdheer that lived in the south.

Another explanation for the census of 1975 that isn't based on delusion of grandeur ?

 

[repo]

So from everything is line with PESS to thanking me for educating you ? Your welcome buddy.
:siilaanyolaugh:

Nice try, but you can't get me with such delusions. The population of Bari and Nugaal and Sool was in 1975 in the census 291k whereas Togdheer alone was 335k. If you go by the PESS (We can use it since we both feel underrepresented by this survey) today Bari+Sool+Nugaal have a population of 1.44 Million where Togdeer has 721k.

There is nothing that can explain these ridiculous numbers and there is no mass migration that could explain it. Tell us how much of the PL population went to the south ? The whole Benadir region had a population less than 500 k and even if we are generous and say 5 percent where Puntlanders, it means you guys made up 25 K. Add this to the 291k before and you get 316k. Still less than the 335k of Togdheer, without even including the population of Togdheer that lived in the south.

Another explanation for the census of 1975 that isn't based on delusion of grandeur ?

Your stupidity is amazing. I'm going to ask you a simple question. Say a census was made in Somaliland circa 1988 and another after 1991, would the difference be due to mass migration or not?

 

[Abdurahman_somali]

Your stupidity is amazing. I'm going to ask you a simple question. Say a census was made in Somaliland circa 1988 and another after 1991, would the difference be due to mass migration or not?

Wht are you getting emotional again ? You are funny really.

As I said before, Bari+Nugaal+Sool were in the census 291k and Togdheer 335k. Mogadisho had a population of less than 500k and if we say 5 percent were MJ (Harti) which is very generous the whole population of the three mentioned reasons would be 291k+25k= 316k and less than Todgheer.

1988 almost all Isaaq territories where empty which is proven by several sources. In 1975 majority of Puntlanders still lived in PL, expect for some that went to the south. There was NEVER a mass immigration from Puntlanders to the south to begin with and you cannot prove the opposite. The ones in the south almost lived all in Xamar and there is no chance that they could make up more than 5 percent. Even if we say 10 percent (which is delusional), then the population of Bari+Nugaal+Sool would be 366k, which means today these three regions combined are around the same number as Togdheer. According to PESS (which I made you believe it even underrepresent your people) these three regions combined have double tje population of Togdheer.

Try to refute this, instead of insulting like a child.

 

[DR OSMAN]

Wht are you getting emotional again ? You are funny really.

As I said before, Bari+Nugaal+Sool were in the census 291k and Togdheer 335k. Mogadisho had a population of less than 500k and if we say 5 percent were MJ (Harti) which is very generous the whole population of the three mentioned reasons would be 291k+25k= 316k and less than Todgheer.

1988 almost all Isaaq territories where empty which is proven by several sources. In 1975 majority of Puntlanders still lived in PL, expect for some that went to the south. There was NEVER a mass immigration from Puntlanders to the south to begin with and you cannot prove the opposite. The ones in the south almost lived all in Xamar and there is no chance that they could make up more than 5 percent. Even if we say 10 percent (which is delusional), then the population of Bari+Nugaal+Sool would be 366k, which means today these three regions combined are around the same number as Togdheer. According to PESS (which I made you believe it even underrepresent your people) these three regions combined have double tje population of Togdheer.

Try to refute this, instead of insulting like a child.

Sxb Pess how did they get their numbers? an Isaaq in hargeisa source? listen prove your methodology is right before even churning figures, u waste a-lot of time. Water sources in hargeisa will tell u their size, why u scared, you know there is no more 'sheeko sheeko' right? electricity generation is another reliable town gouge. But f*ck the town 80% of economy is livestock and we know who owns it. If darod left the whole nation will be left with 1 billion dollars showing u numerical problems

 

[repo]

Wht are you getting emotional again ? You are funny really.

As I said before, Bari+Nugaal+Sool where in the census 291k and Togdheer 335k. Mogadisho had a population of less than 500k and if we say 5 percent where MJ (Harti) which is very generous the whole population of the three mentioned reasons would be 291k+25k= 316k and less than Todgheer.

1988 almost all Isaaq territories where empty which is proven by several sources. In 1975 majority of Puntlanders still lived in PL, expect for some that went to the south. There was NEVER a mass immigration from Puntlanders to the south to begin with and you cannot prove the opposite. They almost lived all in Xamar and there is no chance that they could make up more than 5 percent. Even if we say 10 percent (which is delusional), then the population of Bari+Nugaal+Sool would be 366k, which means today these three regions combined are around the same number as Togdheer. According to PESS (which I made you believe it even underrepresent your people) these three regions combined have double tje population of Togdheer.

Try to refute this, instead of insulting like a child.

The crust of your argument are 2 fold.

1. "Puntlanders never mass migrated south." Taariikh aan ku baro. Migrations to the south happened at two different points in history. Lower Jubba is the first one which happened in the 1880s. Kismayo was the first one, all 4 MPs represented in parliament were Puntland native. 2nd migration happened post 1960 to Xamar, Xudur and Baidoa, "marna rashiid marna risaaq".

2. You are citing to me as evidence of Puntland's population a census from 1975. That's 45 years ago. Madax adeeg darteed baa ilaa iya hadda comprehension ka qaadan weysay that mass return of a populace can result in population growth.

It's simply beyond me to help you any further here.

 

[repo]

Sxb Pess how did they get their numbers? an Isaaq in hargeisa source? listen prove your methodology is right before even churning figures, u waste a-lot of time. Water sources in hargeisa will tell u their size, why u scared, you know there is no more 'sheeko sheeko' right? electricity generation is another reliable town gouge. But f*ck the town 80% of economy is livestock and we know who owns it. If darod left the whole nation will be left with 1 billion dollars showing u numerical problems

The PESS numbers were rejected by Somaliland, they didn't like the Puntland numbers. It's the same with @Abdurahman_somali kulahaa lets say 5%, dadkaan wey iga qosol siiyeen. Ilaahi baa kugu daarshe 5% halkee buu ka keenay..

 

[Abdurahman_somali]

The crust of your argument are 2 fold.

1. "Puntlanders never mass migrated south." Taariikh aan ku baro. Migrations to the south happened at two different points in history. Lower Jubba is the first one which happened in the 1880s. Kismayo was the first one, all 4 MPs represented in parliament were Puntland native. 2nd migration happened post 1960 to Xamar, Xudur and Baidoa, "marna rashiid marna risaaq".

2. You are citing to me as evidence of Puntland's population a census from 1975. That's 45 years ago. Madax adeeg darteed baa ilaa iya hadda comprehension ka qaadanweysay that mass return of a populace can result in population growth.

It's simply beyond me to help you any further here.

You have not refuted a single of point of mine for the second time, because they are irrefutable. Every reader with an average IQ and basic math knowledge can see how I completely destroyed you.

Don't speak this ugly mixed English-Somali. The correct sentence is:

"Madax adeyg dartii baa ilaa iyo hadda "isbarbar dhigga" (not comprehension ka ) ka qaadan weyday. (Except for the many spelling errors in such a short sentence, your sentence doesn't even make sense if we look at the grammar). I never said mass migration couldn't have an impact per se, but in this specific case for north eastern Somalia (modern PL) there was never a mass migration that could justify this ridiculous number. As I showed you, even if you made up 10 percent of Xamar, the regions Sool+Bari+Nugaal would been around the same size as Togdheer today and not two times bigger.

I showed you the census from 1975 because that's the only census Somalia had. I don't took it as a source to prove PL's current population, but to prove to you the relation of Togdheer to the three other regions, which cannot change so drastically like the PESS claimed. From being less populated (or equal if we count the 10 percent from Xamar), you cannot tell me they have double the population today.

The Harti in Kismaayo were like 5000 in the early 1900's (I might find the source again), but I don't know if this count as mass migration. Well, I might look up the correct definition.


Edit: I thought you mean comparison not comprehension. In this case it's not "isbarbar dhigga", but "fahanka". That makes the sentence even worse.

 

[repo]

You have not refuted a single of point of mine for the second time, because they are irrefutable. Every reader with an average IQ and basic math knowledge can see how I completely destroyed you.

Don't speak this ugly mixed English-Somali. The correct sentence is:

"Madax adeyg dartii baa ilaa iyo hadda "isbarbar dhigga" (not comprehension ka ) ka qaadan weyday. (Except for the many spelling errors in such a short sentence, your sentence doesn't even make sense if we look at the grammar). I never said mass migration couldn't have an impact per se, but in this specific case for north eastern Somalia (modern PL) there was never a mass migration that could justify this ridiculous number. As I showed you, even if you made up 10 percent of Xamar, the regions Sool+Bari+Nugaal would been around the same size as Togdheer today and not two times bigger.

I showed you the census from 1975 because that's the only census Somalia had. I don't took it as a source to prove PL's current population, but to prove to you the relation of Togdheer to the three other regions, which cannot change so drastically like the PESS claimed. From being less populated (or equal if we count the 10 percent from Xamar), you cannot tell me they have double the population today.

The Harti in Kismaayo were like 5000 in the early 1900's (I might find the source again), but I don't know if this count as mass migration. Well, I might look up the correct definition.


Edit: I thought you mean comparison not comprehension. In this case it's not "isbarbar dhigga", but "fahanka". That makes the sentence even worse.

What a fucking retard. Even if Kismayo's population was 5000 in 1900, what does that prove? Do you have the Harti population in 1975 for the Lower Jubba? Or in Xamar, Jubboyinka, Bay and Bakool?

 

[Fiidmeer]

Here's a population estimation made by the Italians in 1953.

This was before the so-called "mass" migration to Muqdisho.

 

[repo]

So I looked up the Somali population in 1900. It's cited as 365,000. Is 5,000 in your mind in one town, Kismayo, a large population? Is the migration of such a population, mass migration?

 

[Daacad90]

Countries in much better situations struggle with democracy and rig votes, what makes you think somaliland would carry a fair vote? having said that, nonesomalilanders should mind their own business and focus on their tuulos. Issaqs made a respectable country and are doing better economically. Stop being bitter and do something for yourselves for once. I am tired of lander this lander that.

 

[repo]

Here's a population estimation made by the Italians in 1953.

This was before the so-called "mass" migration to Muqdisho.

That's actually beautiful. That a sub-sub-sub-sub tribe has that wide a population. Check out Kismayo where all representatives in parliament were from Puntland. Not including those living in other parts of the country particularly Xamar and South West.

That's the difference between us @Fiidmeer.