Some little known facts and tidbits

My fellow dwellers. I thought it'd be a good idea to share a few tidbits on gender, marriage, family, etc. that's not oft discussed. Feel free to add to the tread.

Let's start with this:

According to the Prophet (SAW): The child is to be attributed to one on whose bed he is born, and for an adulterer there is stoning.” [Al-Bukhari and Muslim]

The meaning of this is, once lawfully wed it is logically taken as fact that she can only have intimate relationships with the husband. Extrapolating this, any child born in that household is de-facto the husband's child in the eyes of Islamic law.

Let's take a made up scenario as an example. Following child-birth, you come to find your child has the characteristics of blonde hair, green eyes, and freckles. You being the dhuxul Somali laandheere you become devastated: simple biology/genetics tells you that this is surely not your seed. Pretty simple case to point at the harlot and cut ties correct? Hold your camels batman!

Th above hadith takes precedent. Since she's your wife, it is taken as fact that the child can only be yours since she can only be intimate with yourself. One way out of this bind is 'Li'aan'.

What is 'Li'aan'? It can be defined as an oath of condemnation; you might be familiar with the roadman version: "I swear on my mom's life..."

Let us take the case of the Companion Hilal ibn Umayah (AS). Hilal on his way home on a particular evening, witnessed with his own eyes and ears his wife in bed with another man. He bit his tongue and turned away as not to rouse them and planned his meeting with the Prophet for the following morning.

Upon meeting the Prophet he exclaimed: "Oh messenger of Allah, I have witnessed with my own eyes and ears another man with my wife last night".

Hearing this the Prophet took dislike to it, and approached the issue very seriously. At that moment we were blessed with the revelation of the following verses:

And those who accuse their wives [of adultery] and have no witnesses except themselves – then the witness of one of them [shall be] four testimonies [swearing] by Allah that indeed, he is of the truthful. [Surah 24 Al-Nur; Verse 6]

And the fifth [oath will be] that the curse of Allah be upon him if he should be of the liars. (Surah 24 Al-Nur; Verse 7)

But it will prevent punishment from her if she gives four testimonies [swearing] by Allah that indeed, he is of the liars. (Surah 24 Al-Nur; Verse 8)

And the fifth [oath will be] that the wrath of Allah be upon her if he was of the truthful. (Surah 24 Al-Nur; Verse 9)

And if not for the favor of Allah upon you and His mercy... and because Allah is Accepting of Repentance and Wise. (Surah 24 Al-Nur; Verse 10)


The Prophet conveyed the above to Hilal, and instructed him to summon his wife. The verses were then also recited to the wife, and both her an Hilal followed the divine revelation.

They both bore witness in front of Allah that each spoke the truth, and before the fifth oath were both warned that the punishment in the hereafter was surely more severe than the worldly one. They wife stuck to her guns, and the Prophet legally separated the couple and the matter was ended there.

Now back to our hypothetical at the start with the blonde supposed Farax-spawn. If she's adamant the child is yours, and you both decide on 'Li'aan' to prove your case; in the event where she sticks to her guns, you may divorce each other Islamically but little Bjorn will take your second name and inheritance in the eyes of all that is good and holy. In Islam, that is your child who you are obligated to raise and treat as a biological child. Bjorn Farax Samantar Kaaliye :gaasdrink:.
 
Tidbit numero duo:

Did you know that the wife is under no Islamic obligation to cook if she's from a upper-class family, came from an upbringing where this is not the norm, or is simply not able to? You can literally not demand her to cook - and going even one further you are obligated to feed her.

Say you marry Aisha from UAE who's father runs several businesses where he draws a respectable salary from - so not an unrealistic position for a lot of Somalis that live there. Aisha's family has a maid and a chef since childhood because the family could afford it. This is her norm.

You ask for Aisha's hand in marriage, she and her family accept, and you fly her over to the West. Now you're thinking, a gazelle from a conservative Muslim country :gladbron:? Jackpot! You flex your inner stomach lining in preparation for the feasts she'll prepare - we've all seen those Arab table spreads with food spilling over the edges.

Dainty Aisha arrives, sets her bags down at the door, looks you in the face and chortles what's for dinner monsieur luugo-baasto, before playfully roasting your living situation in a nice-not-so-nice tone :hillarybiz:

In your self-righteousness you sneer at this unruly woman, and make the decision to seek Islamic advise on how to rehabilitate your new wife. You get hit with the uno-reverse.

Farax: "Yaa sheikh, this woman will be the end of me!"

Sheikh: "First of all calm down waryaa, you've only been married a couple of days with your woe-is me punk ass. And what did I tell you about going for a run after fajar? Your love-handles are outrageous!"

Farax: "Yaa sheikh, this is genetics as I've told you before, please stick to the topic.":jcoleno:

Sheikh: "Ok - tell me."

Farax: "She refuses to cook and I suspect even has personal beef with the stove - I have seen scratch marks and what look like grafiti scribbles ya Sheikh! She knows nothing of household chores and constantly roasts me for the state of the house!

Sheikh: --check's notes-- "Let me get this straight, you married a girl from a well off family, who has been catered to her whole life correct?

Farax: "But she is so thick ya Shei..

Sheikh: throws sharpie pen.

Sheikh: "My friend, you have misconceptions from European brainwashing on what 'traditional' or even 'conservative' roles are - our women are not mules. You are obligated to maintain the life her wali provided for her before you. You must provide her with food, clothing, safe living arrangements and intimacy. Where do you work?"

Farax: "In between jobs ya sheikh, but no worries doing bits here and there to make up for it".

Sheikh: --takes a deep breath-- "Get out".
 
Tidbit numero duo:

Did you know that the wife is under no Islamic obligation to cook if she's from a upper-class family, came from an upbringing where this is not the norm, or is simply not able to? You can literally not demand her to cook - and going even one further you are obligated to feed her.

Say you marry Aisha from UAE who's father runs several businesses where he draws a respectable salary from - so not an unrealistic position for a lot of Somalis that live there. Aisha's family has a maid and a chef since childhood because the family could afford it. This is her norm.

You ask for Aisha's hand in marriage, she and her family accept, and you fly her over to the West. Now you're thinking, a gazelle from a conservative Muslim country :gladbron:? Jackpot! You flex your inner stomach lining in preparation for the feasts she'll prepare - we've all seen those Arab table spreads with food spilling over the edges.

Dainty Aisha arrives, sets her bags down at the door, looks you in the face and chortles what's for dinner monsieur luugo-baasto, before playfully roasting your living situation in a nice-not-so-nice tone :hillarybiz:

In your self-righteousness you sneer at this unruly woman, and make the decision to seek Islamic advise on how to rehabilitate your new wife. You get hit with the uno-reverse.

Farax: "Yaa sheikh, this woman will be the end of me!"

Sheikh: "First of all calm down waryaa, you've only been married a couple of days with your woe-is me punk ass. And what did I tell you about going for a run after fajar? Your love-handles are outrageous!"

Farax: "Yaa sheikh, this is genetics as I've told you before, please stick to the topic.":jcoleno:

Sheikh: "Ok - tell me."

Farax: "She refuses to cook and I suspect even has personal beef with the stove - I have seen scratch marks and what look like grafiti scribbles ya Sheikh! She knows nothing of household chores and constantly roasts me for the state of the house!

Sheikh: --check's notes-- "Let me get this straight, you married a girl from a well off family, who has been catered to her whole life correct?

Farax: "But she is so thick ya Shei..

Sheikh: throws sharpie pen.

Sheikh: "My friend, you have misconceptions from European brainwashing on what 'traditional' or even 'conservative' roles are - our women are not mules. You are obligated to maintain the life her wali provided for her before you. You must provide her with food, clothing, safe living arrangements and intimacy. Where do you work?"

Farax: "In between jobs ya sheikh, but no worries doing bits here and there to make up for it".

Sheikh: --takes a deep breath-- "Get out".
Most somalis in the west cannot afford maids but I this post is still important
 
I can never imagine being in such a situation, of course. But for the miskeens that do, can't they take a genetic test? Like you don't even need to be accusatory at first, you just say; "let us do 23andMe to check ancestry. I want to see what he/she has inherited."

What is the ruling if you have genetic proof that the child neither got half of your DNA nor paternal inheritance if it is a boy?
 
I can never imagine being in such a situation, of course. But for the miskeens that do, can't they take a genetic test? Like you don't even need to be accusatory at first, you just say; "let us do 23andMe to check ancestry. I want to see what he/she has inherited."

What is the ruling if you have genetic proof that the child neither got half of your DNA nor paternal inheritance if it is a boy?
Honestly I think the understanding is that her words take precedence - she has to admit to it of her own volition unless four people catch her in the act of penetration (remember just laying on the bed together is also not proof enough of sex occurring :kendrickcry:).

And they say the Shariah is oppressive - it's almost unenforceable!
 
Honestly I think the understanding is that her words take precedence - she has to admit to it of her own volition unless four people catch her in the act of penetration (remember just laying on the bed together is also not proof enough of sex occurring :kendrickcry:).

And they say the Shariah is oppressive - it's almost unenforceable!
This similarly applies to rape. Four witnesses and all.
Even with advances in forensic science, it is difficult to enforce in Sharia unless there is CCTV evidence etc.
 

World

VIP
My fellow dwellers. I thought it'd be a good idea to share a few tidbits on gender, marriage, family, etc. that's not oft discussed. Feel free to add to the tread.

Let's start with this:

According to the Prophet (SAW): The child is to be attributed to one on whose bed he is born, and for an adulterer there is stoning.” [Al-Bukhari and Muslim]

The meaning of this is, once lawfully wed it is logically taken as fact that she can only have intimate relationships with the husband. Extrapolating this, any child born in that household is de-facto the husband's child in the eyes of Islamic law.

Let's take a made up scenario as an example. Following child-birth, you come to find your child has the characteristics of blonde hair, green eyes, and freckles. You being the dhuxul Somali laandheere you become devastated: simple biology/genetics tells you that this is surely not your seed. Pretty simple case to point at the harlot and cut ties correct? Hold your camels batman!

Th above hadith takes precedent. Since she's your wife, it is taken as fact that the child can only be yours since she can only be intimate with yourself. One way out of this bind is 'Li'aan'.

What is 'Li'aan'? It can be defined as an oath of condemnation; you might be familiar with the roadman version: "I swear on my mom's life..."

Let us take the case of the Companion Hilal ibn Umayah (AS). Hilal on his way home on a particular evening, witnessed with his own eyes and ears his wife in bed with another man. He bit his tongue and turned away as not to rouse them and planned his meeting with the Prophet for the following morning.

Upon meeting the Prophet he exclaimed: "Oh messenger of Allah, I have witnessed with my own eyes and ears another man with my wife last night".

Hearing this the Prophet took dislike to it, and approached the issue very seriously. At that moment we were blessed with the revelation of the following verses:

And those who accuse their wives [of adultery] and have no witnesses except themselves – then the witness of one of them [shall be] four testimonies [swearing] by Allah that indeed, he is of the truthful. [Surah 24 Al-Nur; Verse 6]

And the fifth [oath will be] that the curse of Allah be upon him if he should be of the liars. (Surah 24 Al-Nur; Verse 7)

But it will prevent punishment from her if she gives four testimonies [swearing] by Allah that indeed, he is of the liars. (Surah 24 Al-Nur; Verse 8)

And the fifth [oath will be] that the wrath of Allah be upon her if he was of the truthful. (Surah 24 Al-Nur; Verse 9)

And if not for the favor of Allah upon you and His mercy... and because Allah is Accepting of Repentance and Wise. (Surah 24 Al-Nur; Verse 10)


The Prophet conveyed the above to Hilal, and instructed him to summon his wife. The verses were then also recited to the wife, and both her an Hilal followed the divine revelation.

They both bore witness in front of Allah that each spoke the truth, and before the fifth oath were both warned that the punishment in the hereafter was surely more severe than the worldly one. They wife stuck to her guns, and the Prophet legally separated the couple and the matter was ended there.

Now back to our hypothetical at the start with the blonde supposed Farax-spawn. If she's adamant the child is yours, and you both decide on 'Li'aan' to prove your case; in the event where she sticks to her guns, you may divorce each other Islamically but little Bjorn will take your second name and inheritance in the eyes of all that is good and holy. In Islam, that is your child who you are obligated to raise and treat as a biological child. Bjorn Farax Samantar Kaaliye :gaasdrink:.
A simple DNA test is all you need today.
 
@Omar del Sur Is the sharia punishment for rape the same as zina
I have heard some people say the punishment for rape is death penalty and I've heard others say it is only 100 lashes
 

Omar del Sur

RETIRED
VIP
@Omar del Sur Is the sharia punishment for rape the same as zina
I have heard some people say the punishment for rape is death penalty and I've heard others say it is only 100 lashes

yes I think the punishment is the same as for zina except he is supposed to pay the victim mehr (even though there is no marriage, of course). I'd be happy to take the position that the rapist is executed if there was evidence for that stance... but as far as I'm aware, the punishment is basically the same as for zina.
 
yes I think the punishment is the same as for zina except he is supposed to pay the victim mehr (even though there is no marriage, of course). I'd be happy to take the position that the rapist is executed if there was evidence for that stance... but as far as I'm aware, the punishment is basically the same as for zina.
If Rape is much worse than Zinaa than why would the hadd punishment be the same
 

Omar del Sur

RETIRED
VIP
If Rape is much worse than Zinaa than why would the hadd punishment be the same

are you saying that it's not valid because it doesn't suit your reasoning? the shariah isn't based on what makes sense to us. it's based on Quran and Sunnah. and to my knowledge that is the ruling.
 

Dharbash

🧊
MARQUESS OF SSC
Tidbit numero duo:

Did you know that the wife is under no Islamic obligation to cook if she's from a upper-class family, came from an upbringing where this is not the norm, or is simply not able to? You can literally not demand her to cook - and going even one further you are obligated to feed her.

Say you marry Aisha from UAE who's father runs several businesses where he draws a respectable salary from - so not an unrealistic position for a lot of Somalis that live there. Aisha's family has a maid and a chef since childhood because the family could afford it. This is her norm.

You ask for Aisha's hand in marriage, she and her family accept, and you fly her over to the West. Now you're thinking, a gazelle from a conservative Muslim country :gladbron:? Jackpot! You flex your inner stomach lining in preparation for the feasts she'll prepare - we've all seen those Arab table spreads with food spilling over the edges.

Dainty Aisha arrives, sets her bags down at the door, looks you in the face and chortles what's for dinner monsieur luugo-baasto, before playfully roasting your living situation in a nice-not-so-nice tone :hillarybiz:

In your self-righteousness you sneer at this unruly woman, and make the decision to seek Islamic advise on how to rehabilitate your new wife. You get hit with the uno-reverse.

Farax: "Yaa sheikh, this woman will be the end of me!"

Sheikh: "First of all calm down waryaa, you've only been married a couple of days with your woe-is me punk ass. And what did I tell you about going for a run after fajar? Your love-handles are outrageous!"

Farax: "Yaa sheikh, this is genetics as I've told you before, please stick to the topic.":jcoleno:

Sheikh: "Ok - tell me."

Farax: "She refuses to cook and I suspect even has personal beef with the stove - I have seen scratch marks and what look like grafiti scribbles ya Sheikh! She knows nothing of household chores and constantly roasts me for the state of the house!

Sheikh: --check's notes-- "Let me get this straight, you married a girl from a well off family, who has been catered to her whole life correct?

Farax: "But she is so thick ya Shei..

Sheikh: throws sharpie pen.

Sheikh: "My friend, you have misconceptions from European brainwashing on what 'traditional' or even 'conservative' roles are - our women are not mules. You are obligated to maintain the life her wali provided for her before you. You must provide her with food, clothing, safe living arrangements and intimacy. Where do you work?"

Farax: "In between jobs ya sheikh, but no worries doing bits here and there to make up for it".

Sheikh: --takes a deep breath-- "Get out".
:dead::dead: Good read
 
In the Hanbali school of thought, your wife can charge you for breastfeeding your own kid.

In all madhabs, your ex wife can charge you.
 
yes I think the punishment is the same as for zina except he is supposed to pay the victim mehr (even though there is no marriage, of course). I'd be happy to take the position that the rapist is executed if there was evidence for that stance... but as far as I'm aware, the punishment is basically the same as for zina.
There is evidence as rape is also seen as hiraabah as well, so the ruler can apply a more severe punishment without the need of 4 witnesses.

Otherwise, he is to be punished (i.e., if there is no proof that the hadd punishment for zina may be carried out against him because he does not confess, and there are not four witnesses, then the judge may punish him and stipulate a punishment that will deter him and others like him). There is no punishment for the woman if it is true that he forced her and overpowered her, which may be proven by her screaming and shouting for help. End quote.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/islamqa.info/amp/en/answers/72338
 
Looked it up, and li’aan is a means of disowning the child. You don’t have any obligations towards the child after making li’an and claiming that he’s a wecel.
 
Tidbit numero duo:

Did you know that the wife is under no Islamic obligation to cook if she's from a upper-class family, came from an upbringing where this is not the norm, or is simply not able to? You can literally not demand her to cook - and going even one further you are obligated to feed her.

Say you marry Aisha from UAE who's father runs several businesses where he draws a respectable salary from - so not an unrealistic position for a lot of Somalis that live there. Aisha's family has a maid and a chef since childhood because the family could afford it. This is her norm.

You ask for Aisha's hand in marriage, she and her family accept, and you fly her over to the West. Now you're thinking, a gazelle from a conservative Muslim country :gladbron:? Jackpot! You flex your inner stomach lining in preparation for the feasts she'll prepare - we've all seen those Arab table spreads with food spilling over the edges.

Dainty Aisha arrives, sets her bags down at the door, looks you in the face and chortles what's for dinner monsieur luugo-baasto, before playfully roasting your living situation in a nice-not-so-nice tone :hillarybiz:

In your self-righteousness you sneer at this unruly woman, and make the decision to seek Islamic advise on how to rehabilitate your new wife. You get hit with the uno-reverse.

Farax: "Yaa sheikh, this woman will be the end of me!"

Sheikh: "First of all calm down waryaa, you've only been married a couple of days with your woe-is me punk ass. And what did I tell you about going for a run after fajar? Your love-handles are outrageous!"

Farax: "Yaa sheikh, this is genetics as I've told you before, please stick to the topic.":jcoleno:

Sheikh: "Ok - tell me."

Farax: "She refuses to cook and I suspect even has personal beef with the stove - I have seen scratch marks and what look like grafiti scribbles ya Sheikh! She knows nothing of household chores and constantly roasts me for the state of the house!

Sheikh: --check's notes-- "Let me get this straight, you married a girl from a well off family, who has been catered to her whole life correct?

Farax: "But she is so thick ya Shei..

Sheikh: throws sharpie pen.

Sheikh: "My friend, you have misconceptions from European brainwashing on what 'traditional' or even 'conservative' roles are - our women are not mules. You are obligated to maintain the life her wali provided for her before you. You must provide her with food, clothing, safe living arrangements and intimacy. Where do you work?"

Farax: "In between jobs ya sheikh, but no worries doing bits here and there to make up for it".

Sheikh: --takes a deep breath-- "Get out".
1656339392945.gif
 
Looked it up, and li’aan is a means of disowning the child. You don’t have any obligations towards the child after making li’an and claiming that he’s a wecel.
Only issue is that you need to say that if i'm wrong may the curse of God be upon me.

What if the real father is also Somali so the child doesn't look drastically different and you don't have concrete proof but deep down you think you know? Is that a risk you'd take?
 
Only issue is that you need to say that if i'm wrong may the curse of God be upon me.

What if the real father is also Somali so the child doesn't look drastically different and you don't have concrete proof but deep down you think you know? Is that a risk you'd take?
DNA tests make it easy. Back then it must have been rough as hell
 
DNA tests make it easy. Back then it must have been rough as hell
Heard a story that happened years ago in Somalia. The man had no proof and there was no DNA testing. He had to claim the child and the child had his abtiris. He knew and heard stories of her wrongdoing whilst he was away. Couldn't disown the child, but he decided to just leave and the child has his surname.
 

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